Because almost every other time that I can recall it was temporary.
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Is baptism required for salvation?
- Thread starter dwb001
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
This is what makes this matter of the necessity for baptism frustrating. You have to specify if you mean it’s required to be done to be justified, or required to done as an expected and obligatory obedience of one who claims to be justified in Christ.
I think the Bible is crystal clear that justification (becoming righteous) is entirely secured through faith apart from aid or merit of work. But the Bible is also clear that the absence of obedience indicates you don’t really believe. When talking about the necessity for baptism you have to make clear which one you are talking about.
Mungo
Member
dwb001 and Jethro Bodine
I've written about being "filled with the Holy Spirit" before.
There are two ways to be filled with the Holy Spirit. In Greek there are two different words for them (I don't know about Hebrew).
These words are and plieroo and pleitho
The words in red are taken from a book by Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray
“Filled” as a State of Being
The Greek word for being filled with the Holy Spirit, pleiroo (or its alternative pleires), describes something becoming fuller and fuller. The filling does not happen at distinct times, but is a slow progressive saturation, like yeast permeating a dough, and describes a state of being. Usually there is no reference to dynamic action.
Examples of pleiroo/pleires – state of being
“And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit for forty days in the wilderness, tempted by the devil.” (Lk1-2)
“Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom …” (Acts 6:3)
“[F]or he [Barnabus] was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith…” (Acts 11:24)
“Filled” for Action
The other Greek word for filling referred to by the word pleitho is temporary and followed immediately by action. It corresponds to upon or fell upon.
Examples of pleitho – temporary, for action
“And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying….” (Lk 1:67)
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them……” (Acts 4:8)
“But Saul, who is also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said,….” (Acts 13:9-10).
This kind of filling happens again and again, just as a sponge may be refilled many times…..The disciples were not filled only once on Pentecost, but many times thereafter…..The presence of the Holy Spirit is constant, but the expression of the power is episodic. (my emboldening)
I think this usage is what might be called an anointing.
Two Ways of Being Spirit Filled
We can summarise these findings simply. God wants us to be filled with the Holy Spirit in two distinct senses of the word. He wants us, on the one hand, to be open to all the inner workings of the Spirit in our character, preparing us for eternity and yielding the fruit of the Spirit, especially love. On the other hand, He wants us to be open occasions when we can minister in His power through the gifts of the Spirit.
In the first instance, we “have” the Holy Spirit. He is described as being “in” us to change our character. Christian character arises from the slow, percolating work of the Holy Spirit…
In the second instance, the Holy Spirit “has” us. He chooses to use us in a moment to accomplish a ministry by His power. At no time does the Bible indicate that you or I can “have” the power of God in the same way a New Ager tries to get spiritual power to use for good or evil. This kind of power for service comes and goes….
I've written about being "filled with the Holy Spirit" before.
There are two ways to be filled with the Holy Spirit. In Greek there are two different words for them (I don't know about Hebrew).
These words are and plieroo and pleitho
The words in red are taken from a book by Zeb Bradford Long and Douglas McMurray
“Filled” as a State of Being
The Greek word for being filled with the Holy Spirit, pleiroo (or its alternative pleires), describes something becoming fuller and fuller. The filling does not happen at distinct times, but is a slow progressive saturation, like yeast permeating a dough, and describes a state of being. Usually there is no reference to dynamic action.
Examples of pleiroo/pleires – state of being
“And Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan, and was led by the Spirit for forty days in the wilderness, tempted by the devil.” (Lk1-2)
“Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom …” (Acts 6:3)
“[F]or he [Barnabus] was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith…” (Acts 11:24)
“Filled” for Action
The other Greek word for filling referred to by the word pleitho is temporary and followed immediately by action. It corresponds to upon or fell upon.
Examples of pleitho – temporary, for action
“And his father Zechariah was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying….” (Lk 1:67)
"Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them……” (Acts 4:8)
“But Saul, who is also called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said,….” (Acts 13:9-10).
This kind of filling happens again and again, just as a sponge may be refilled many times…..The disciples were not filled only once on Pentecost, but many times thereafter…..The presence of the Holy Spirit is constant, but the expression of the power is episodic. (my emboldening)
I think this usage is what might be called an anointing.
Two Ways of Being Spirit Filled
We can summarise these findings simply. God wants us to be filled with the Holy Spirit in two distinct senses of the word. He wants us, on the one hand, to be open to all the inner workings of the Spirit in our character, preparing us for eternity and yielding the fruit of the Spirit, especially love. On the other hand, He wants us to be open occasions when we can minister in His power through the gifts of the Spirit.
In the first instance, we “have” the Holy Spirit. He is described as being “in” us to change our character. Christian character arises from the slow, percolating work of the Holy Spirit…
In the second instance, the Holy Spirit “has” us. He chooses to use us in a moment to accomplish a ministry by His power. At no time does the Bible indicate that you or I can “have” the power of God in the same way a New Ager tries to get spiritual power to use for good or evil. This kind of power for service comes and goes….
TL:DR.
Jethro Bodine
Member
The manifestation of the Spirit in power comes and goes. But the Spirit indwelling a person is always there.
After Pentecost... you may have a point... but then again... maybe not.
Another opinion for the pile.
Jethro Bodine
Member
Not required for justification (becoming a child of God).
Required as the evidence that you are a child of God.
So a works based faith.
OK
Jethro Bodine
Member
In the verse below, was David talking about God taking away the power of the Spirit that was occasionally present in him to perform his duties as king of Israel? Or was he talking about the continual indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit being taken away?
Psalm 51:11
Jethro Bodine
Member
No.
Works based faith means one is justified by aid and merit of works.
As you can see I said baptism is not required for that.
Baptism is necessary for the same reason you cannot murder, steal, or lie. Not so that obedience can make you born again, but because that is the obedience that accompanies one who is truly saved/born again.
But then you also said it was required.
Where is the word power in that verse?
Where in that verse is the Holy Spirit the thing that give David the power to perform his duties?
Where does it say that David had the continual indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit?
It sounds like you are making a lot of presumptions to make a point.
Consecrated Life
Member
Consecrated Life
Member
So you believe that unless the person has a legit excuse , though they love Him & have accepted Jesus's death for their sins they will nevertheless spend eternity in hell ?
Thank You .
Jethro Bodine
Member
...but not to be made a righteous person (justified).
Mungo
Member
I leave that decision up to Jesus.
Jethro Bodine
Member
It's not.
And so I ask, was David talking about the personal indwelling of the Spirit, or the display of the Holy Spirit in him in the outward fulfillment of his duties as king?
We know that, David, as king of Israel was given the power of the Holy Spirit. Just as all Priests, prophets, and kings, and various workers were given it in power to fulfill the duties of their offices. 1 Samuel 10:6, for example.
Pay attention, lol!
That's what I'm asking you, lol.
I'm asking you to tell me what you think the OT scriptures I'm sharing indicate about whether or not the Holy Spirit remained in a person during that time.
Consecrated Life
Member
So depending on what Jesus decides in each case , you believe it is possible for a person who loves Christ & accepts His blood shed for his own sins to end up in hell ?
I didn't say that... did I?