Is Calvinism Another Gospel?

[Free]

Do you have a Bible and a concordance?

I am asking for your answers. I ask questions for a reason. Why is it that you don't want to answer?

 

[Robert Pate]

I am asking for your answers. I ask questions for a reason. Why is it that you don't want to answer?

Because these are things that you should search out for yourself. Besides, you don't believe anything that I say anyway.

 

[Free]

Because these are things that you should search out for yourself.

I have searched these things out. As I said, I am asking for your answers. I ask questions for a reason.

Besides, you don't believe anything that I say anyway.

Well, you seem to keep avoiding directly answering anything that proves difficult to your positions. Here, you say that there are no verses which speak of the predestination of believers to heaven or unbelievers to hell. Yet, I have given some which do seem to strongly imply that, and now you refuse to answer questions regarding them.

 

[journeyman]

And what does it mean to be predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ?

Personally, I believe it means people who live by faith in God will emulate his Son.

Are there going to be those in hell who were predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ? If not, then it will be only those in hell who were not predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, and those who were will be in heaven.

Of course, it makes perfect sense that people who will be burned, have no resemblance to Christ. Even ungodly works are burned up.

What does it mean to be justified? Are there also going to be those in hell who are justified? If not, then it will be only those in hell who were not predestined to be justified, and those who were will be in heaven.

I believe justification is the result of realizing our sin against God, and repenting, following Christ as a result. The just "live by", conduct themselves, by faith.

What does it mean to have one's name written in the book of life from the foundation of the world? Is this not speaking of being predestined to salvation, since those whose names aren't written in the book of life spend eternity apart from God?

We see it again in Rev 13:8, "and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain." (ESV)

And we know what else happens to those whose names aren't written in the book of life:

Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

I read one thing (can't remember who wrote it, but a long time ago) where it said everybody begins with their name in the book, but can be blotted out. So if someone dies in sin, on judgment day, it's proper to say his name wasn't written in the book from the foundation of the world..... until now (from beginning till end),

he that endureth to the end shall be saved Mt.10:22

 

[Robert Pate]

Personally, I believe it means people who live by faith in God will emulate his Son.

Of course, it makes perfect sense that people who will be burned, have no resemblance to Christ. Even ungodly works are burned up.

I believe justification is the result of realizing our sin against God, and repenting, following Christ as a result. The just "live by", conduct themselves, by faith.

I read one thing (can't remember who wrote it, but a long time ago) where it said everybody begins with their name in the book, but can be blotted out. So if someone dies in sin, on judgment day, it's proper to say his name wasn't written in the book from the foundation of the world..... until now (from beginning till end),

he that endureth to the end shall be saved Mt.10:22

The Holy Spirit helps the Christian to endure until the end. Once sealed with the Holy Spirit always sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno

Before I truly repented I read rc sproul and such more than the Bible itself. Now…?

For my own life and walk the appeal of very important men with big ideas has long faded.

Scripture indicates some measure of foreknowledge. The Bible also encourages us to examine ourselves to see if we truly are in Christ..,to work out our salvation with fear and trembling…check the scriptures with teachings lest we be deceived…

On and on and on. I care about sound doctrine to a point but I’m called to love and obey Jesus.

 

[journeyman]

The Holy Spirit helps the Christian to endure until the end. Once sealed with the Holy Spirit always sealed with the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 1:13.

I agree.

 

[Robert Pate]

I have searched these things out. As I said, I am asking for your answers. I ask questions for a reason.


Well, you seem to keep avoiding directly answering anything that proves difficult to your positions. Here, you say that there are no verses which speak of the predestination of believers to heaven or unbelievers to hell. Yet, I have given some which do seem to strongly imply that, and now you refuse to answer questions regarding them.

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell. If it were true the Bible would be full of it, there is nothing.

 

[Free]

There is no scripture anywhere in the Bible that says God has predestinated anyone to heaven or to hell. If it were true the Bible would be full of it, there is nothing.

On the contrary, as I've pointed out before and you ignored, the Bible does say the following:

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. (ESV)

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. (ESV)

Clearly, some have had their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

 

[GodsGrace]

Be careful not to confuse hyper-Calvinism with Calvinism or Reformed theology. Calvinism teaches that justification is by grace alone, based on Christ alone, through faith alone. They do believe the gospel, despite seeing some things differently.

What do you think is the difference between hyper calvinism and reformed theology???

They preach a different gospel.
I'm sorry I didn't start this thread.
And it should be in Theology...
The study of God.

It should be moved.

 

[GodsGrace]

On the contrary, as I've pointed out before and you ignored, the Bible does say the following:

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. (ESV)

What are they predestinated to?

Is it WHO
or is it HOW?

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. (ESV)

Clearly, some have had their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

No longer at computer. Sorry.
Names are written in the book, names can be erased. If you don't know the verses, I'll provide them in the morning.

God FOREKNEW who would CHOOSE to be saved...thus in the book

He didn't PICK who would be saved.

 

[Free]

What do you think is the difference between hyper calvinism and reformed theology???

Unless I am mistaken, although many here keep referring to Calvinism and Reformed theology as though they are one and the same, Calvinism is a subset of Reformed theology, along with Lutheranism and Anglicanism. Hyper-Calvinism takes Calvinist beliefs to extremes (“hyper”).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-calvinism.html

They preach a different gospel.

They preach the same gospel.

I'm sorry I didn't start this thread.
And it should be in Theology...
The study of God.

It should be moved.

It’s in the Calvinism forum.

 

[GodsGrace]

Unless I am mistaken, although many here keep referring to Calvinism and Reformed theology as though they are one and the same, Calvinism is a subset of Reformed theology, along with Lutheranism and Anglicanism. Hyper-Calvinism takes Calvinist beliefs to extremes (“hyper”).

https://www.gotquestions.org/hyper-calvinism.html


They preach the same gospel.₩


It’s in the Calvinism forum.

Yeah. I should have started this thread.
I was worried it would cause problems, and,,
Lo and behold!

Hyper calvinists believe all of the 5 points of TULIP, even Limited Atonement, which even some calvinist theologians cannot accept so they're considered "moderate".

Hyper calvinists and moderate calvinists believe exactly the same doctrines. Hypers are more honest in their belief system and do not fear declaring their horrid beliefs about God. They are colder in their attitude and have no feelings for the reprobate, or unchosen, to the point that they will not even evangelize...
And they're right ! To what end if it's God that does the choosing?

I have to get to sleep.

 

[Robert Pate]

On the contrary, as I've pointed out before and you ignored, the Bible does say the following:

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified. (ESV)

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pit and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. (ESV)

Clearly, some have had their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.

Satan has twisted your mind into believing that the scriptures that you listed say that God predestinates people to heaven and to hell. All of those scriptures are also for me who is not a Calvinist.

 

[Free]

Satan has twisted your mind into believing that the scriptures that you listed say that God predestinates people to heaven and to hell. All of those scriptures are also for me who is not a Calvinist.

Firstly, stop with the rhetoric or you will be banned from the thread. Secondly, you have yet to attempt an explanation of them. Now would be a good time to do so.

 

[Robert Pate]

Firstly, stop with the rhetoric or you will be banned from the thread. Secondly, you have yet to attempt an explanation of them. Now would be a good time to do so.

Once again, there is no scripture in the Bible that says God predestinates anyone to heaven or to hell.

The word predestinate only appears in the Bible 4 times. If it taught that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell the Bible would be full of it, there is nothing.

The words "Faith" and "Believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times.

Ephesians 1:4. God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 12:47.

Ephesians 1:5. Predestinated to become children of God. It is God's will that all become children of God.

Romans 8:28. All are called to according to his purpose. See John 3:16.

Romans 8:29. Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, Ephesians 2:10.

Where in these four scriptures does it say that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell? It doesn't. You have been duped by the devil into believing that it does.

 

[Free]

Once again, there is no scripture in the Bible that says God predestinates anyone to heaven or to hell.

The word predestinate only appears in the Bible 4 times. If it taught that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell the Bible would be full of it, there is nothing.

The words "Faith" and "Believe" appear in the Bible hundreds of times.

Ephesians 1:4. God chose all of humanity in Jesus Christ. Jesus is the savior of the whole world, John 12:47.

But the Bible very clearly teaches that most people will not be saved.

Ephesians 1:5. Predestinated to become children of God. It is God's will that all become children of God.

No, it isn’t. That verse, and verse 4, is saying he predestines some to become children of God. To whom is Paul writing? He is writing to believers in the church at Ephesus. To make that about the whole world is to divorce that verse from its context.

Romans 8:28. All are called to according to his purpose.

No. Again, the same problem. You have divorced this verse from the context and ignoring that Paul is writing to believers at the church in Rome.

See John 3:16.

What, exactly, does this have to do with it?

Romans 8:29. Predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son, Ephesians 2:10.

And? What does it mean to be “predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son”? Are unbelievers conformed to the image of the Son? Absolutely not. Only believers are. This is the same as saying some are predestinated to salvation.

Where in these four scriptures does it say that God predestinates people to heaven or to hell? It doesn't.

And yet you have failed to prove otherwise. You haven’t even given a sufficient understanding of the verses.

You have been duped by the devil into believing that it does.

No, not I.

 

[Robert Pate]

But the Bible very clearly teaches that most people will not be saved.


No, it isn’t. That verse, and verse 4, is saying he predestines some to become children of God. To whom is Paul writing? He is writing to believers in the church at Ephesus. To make that about the whole world is to divorce that verse from its context.


No. Again, the same problem. You have divorced this verse from the context and ignoring that Paul is writing to believers at the church in Rome.


What, exactly, does this have to do with it?


And? What does it mean to be “predestinated to be conformed to the image of his Son”? Are unbelievers conformed to the image of the Son? Absolutely not. Only believers are. This is the same as saying some are predestinated to salvation.


And yet you have failed to prove otherwise. You haven’t even given a sufficient understanding of the verses.


No, not I.

You are in opposition to John 3:16. Where Jesus said, "For God so loved the world (all of humanity) that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

All of Christianity is based upon this one scripture that you oppose.

 

[Free]

You are in opposition to John 3:16. Where Jesus said, "For God so loved the world (all of humanity) that he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life".

All of Christianity is based upon this one scripture that you oppose.

I don’t oppose it. Don’t misrepresent my position. Why don’t you address something I have actually said?

 

[Robert Pate]

I don’t oppose it. Don’t misrepresent my position. Why don’t you address something I have actually said?

You do oppose it. You do not believe that God loves all of humanity (the world). Nor do you believe that whosoever that believes in Jesus can be saved.