[_ Old Earth _] Is evolutionism compatible with the Bible?

[Cygnus]

Seems that way.

He was shown that the language of the text shows a global flood. He failed to look at alll the "clues"....for example, Genesis uses "face of the earth" "rain fell on the earth" "waters rose and increased greatly on the earth" "moved on land perished"

 

[civilwarbuff]

Floodgate....doen't have to be an actual literal interpretation. But rather represents something in language that happened or is.
For example there is another example of a gate that uses a word to describe something. Jesus is a gate.

We use floodgate as an expression of a heavy rainfall even today.....'It rained so hard it was like the floodgates of heaven opened up.' Any reason the ancient Hebrews could not have done the same?

 

[Cygnus]

That seems to be yet another error.none of my Bibles has 'floodgate' in the text, so I wouldn't spend time discussing it.

Floodgate is fine....it simply tells of the sky and a great release of water. The floodgate is that which kept the rain in the clouds. It's an easy way to describe the process that allows precipitation.
It doesn't mean there was a large volume of water sitting outside of some dome that had a gate or window open so it could drain upon the earth.....
....but for fun. lets say it did....it would cause a world wide flood rather than a local flood. So, once again we see the language of the Bible describing a world wide flood, even when the language and assigned meaning of the word floodgate is used by the anti-floodites.

 

[Cygnus]

We use floodgate as an expression of a heavy rainfall even today.....'It rained so hard it was like the floodgates of heaven opened up.' Any reason the ancient Hebrews could not have done the same?

No.
But when you filter your bible through evolutionism like some people here do....a world wide flood has to be eliminated and the account of the flood has to be made to look foolish.

 

[civilwarbuff]

No.
But when you filter your bible through evolutionism like some people here do....a world wide flood has to be eliminated and the account of the flood has to be made to look foolish.

There are many mainstream churches that deny the flood also but eventually all will be revealed.......

 

[Barbarian]

Floodgate....doen't have to be an actual literal interpretation. But rather represents something in language that happened or is.

So suddenly, it's no longer literal after all. You're making some progress. If the windows aren't literal, and the sky as a solid dome with water held back above it isn't literal, what make you think other things that defy reason as literal things aren't also figurative?

 

[Barbarian]

We already had a discussion on this.....it was shown that the word for land you complain about used in other parts of the Bible didn't mean a localized area but rather the entire world.

You said so, but as you know, you had no evidence to back up your new belief.

I little while back I did the research and proved that. Even presented you with verses.

The Hebrews used eretz to mean, among other things, "my land", 'the land of Israel", "as far as the eye can see" ("all the land under heaven") and so on. So you've just decided to use a different meaning. But you keep on making your faulty claim.

 

[Cygnus]

There are many mainstream churches that deny the flood also but eventually all will be revealed.......

Those "churches" have accepted evolutionism and rejected Genesis....and realize the flood destroys evolutionism and other old earth beliefs.
They fail to realize the flood deposited the animals and plants that later fossilized.
They also do away with the concept of original spin...imputed to mankind due to one man.

 

[Cygnus]

So suddenly, it's no longer literal after all. You're making some progress. If the windows aren't literal, and the sky as a solid dome with water held back above it isn't literal, what make you think other things that defy reason as literal things aren't also figurative?

No, it's literal. The gates/windows did open. Just as Jesus is a literal gate.

 

[Cygnus]

You said so, but as you know, you had no evidence to back up your new belief.

I have the bible...but, you seem to be filtering your bible through old earth evolutionism...
As presented to you several times...the language of the account calls for a world wide flood. I have even shown you on SEVERAL occasions where the world used has been used to describe a world wide situation. But, as you must, you need to filter Genesis through old earth evolutionism.

 

[Cygnus]

The Hebrews used eretz to mean, among other things,

So what? It's also been used to describe world wide. For example....in the verying opening verse of the bible we see the word used....

.....In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. Would you like to guess what word is used? I can make you a link if you like.
Anyway, in the beginning God didn't make a "local" land as you would require the word to be translated.

 

[Barbarian]

So what? It's also been used to describe world wide.

So in spite of all the evidence and verses to the contrary, you insist on using on particular usage, ignoring the common usage. Why not just tell us that it's figurative, like the windows and the solid dome of the sky that the flood story says held back waters and then let them through windows in the dome?

If you quit trying to filter the Bible through your new doctrine of "evolutionism", I think it would go better for you.

 

[Barbarian]

No, it's literal. The gates/windows did open. Just as Jesus is a literal gate.

Hmmm...

Definition of gate

1. 1 : an opening in a wall or fence
   
   
2. 2 : a city or castle entrance often with defensive structures (such as towers)
   
   
3. 3a : the frame or door that closes a gateb : a movable barrier (as at a grade crossing)
   
   
4. 4a : a means of entrance or exitb : starting gatec : an area (as at a railroad station or an airport) for departure or arrivald : a space between two markers through which a competitor must pass in the course of a slalom race
   
   
5. 5a : a door, valve, or other device for controlling the passage especially of a fluidb (1) : an electronic switch that allows or prevents the flow of current in a circuit — compare base, drain, source (2) : an electrode in a field-effect transistor that modulates the current flowing through the transistor according to the voltage applied to the electrode — compare drain, sourcec : a device (as in a computer) that outputs a signal when specified input conditions are met logic gated : a molecule or part of a molecule that acts (as by a change in conformation) in response to a stimulus to permit or block passage (as of ions) through a cell membrane
   
   
6. 6 slang : dismissal gave him the gate
   
   
7. 7 : the total admission receipts or the number of spectators (as at a sports event)
   https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gate

No, you're wrong. And the sky is not a solid dome with windows to let the water through. Let it go.

 

[Free]

No, it's literal. The gates/windows did open. Just as Jesus is a literal gate.

Jesus is not a literal gate. Figuratively speaking he is a gate. Metaphors aren't literal but they point to literal truths.

 

[Cygnus]

Jesus is not a literal gate. Figuratively speaking he is a gate. Metaphors aren't literal but they point to literal truths.

keep in mind shepherds were often literal gates. The sheep were put in a pen at night and the shepherd placed himself in the opening.
Kind od a hybred gate. Both metophorical and literal.

 

[Cygnus]

So in spite of all the evidence and verses to the contrary, you insist on using on particular usage, ignoring the common usage. Why not just tell us that it's figurative, like the windows and the solid dome of the sky that the flood story says held back waters and then let them through windows in the dome?

If you quit trying to filter the Bible through your new doctrine of "evolutionism", I think it would go better for you.

Strawman...you asking me to explain something that isn't there as if i have presented it as there.

 

[Barbarian]

keep in mind shepherds were often literal gates. The sheep were put in a pen at night and the shepherd placed himself in the opening.

Show us that. Wasn't until medieval Europe that you see sheepfolds. Shepherds just keep the flock together in the open. And every sheepfold I've ever seen had a real gate. Why would they go to all that trouble to build an enclosure they didn't need, and then fail to put a gate on it?

Kind od a hybred gate. Both metophorical and literal.

So more of it isn't literal? Why not just accept it as written?

 

[Cygnus]

Show us that. Wasn't until medieval Europe that you see sheepfolds. Shepherds just keep the flock together in the open. And every sheepfold I've ever seen had a real gate. Why would they go to all that trouble to build an enclosure they didn't need, and then fail to put a gate on it?

simply wrong

 

[calvin]

simply wrong

From Theyer on definition of 'Sheepfold:
1) among the Greeks in Homer’s time, an uncovered space around the house, enclosed by a wall, in which the stables stood, hence among the Orientals that roofless enclosure by a wall, in the open country in which the flocks were herded at night, a sheepfold
I think Homer somewhat pre-dates Medieval times.
To be honest Cygnus, this thread has become a total waste of cyberspace. I.M.N.S.H.O.

 

[Barbarian]

I guess we have to conclude that YE creationists think the Bible is literal except when they don't want it to be.

Jesus is not a literal gate. He's a metaphorical gate. Like much of Genesis, the metaphor was not meant to be taken literally.

Good call on sheepfolds, though.

When Jesus claims to be “the door of the sheep” (v. 7), He is really indicating that He is the door of the sheepfold. In ancient Palestine, Jewish shepherds brought their flocks back to the sheepfold for protection after a day of grazing. Predators such as wolves and other animals sought to eat the sheep, and they were particularly active at night. But they could not penetrate the sheepfold, which was a walled structure topped with briars to keep out those who wanted to destroy the sheep. It had but one entrance—its gate—and many shepherds would share the same sheepfold.
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/door-sheepfold/

Turns out, they had gates, too.

Let's just all recognize that much of Genesis is figurative, not literal.