Is God in Control?

[iLOVE]

Read the story of "Job" and see if satin had the opportunity or permission. Also make sure you read what God told Job when he questioned God.

 

[iLOVE]

God will never ever, ever, give temptation! God will always give you options. Do you know God said He gets NO Pleasure from death? Did you know that all trials and tribulation in your life you are at that moment in the presence of God? All trials and tribulations in your life is designed to bring you closer to God and test your obedience. Part of your personal relation with Lord Jesus Christ is believing He Loves you. Lord Jesus brought grace and truth to the world. He said, you will have suffering in this world". Lord Jesus didn't say you might have suffering, but you will have suffering. Lord Jesus further states, "there are many things I want to tell you, but you will not understand".

 

[Grazer]

Read the story of "Job" and see if satin had the opportunity or permission. Also make sure you read what God told Job when he questioned God.

I have many questions over the book of Job, but I don't see the point of the story being God gave the devil permission. Why would God come to end suffering then give permission to the devil to cause it? Yes, Jesus said we would suffer but he doesn't say God will give permission to the devil to cause it.

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[Deborah13]

I more see it as that's what gives the devil the opportunity to attack as opposed to God giving the devil permission

I agree. It's more like we have given the permission if it can be called that.

 

[iLOVE]

I have many questions over the book of Job, but I don't see the point of the story being God gave the devil permission. Why would God come to end suffering then give permission to the devil to cause it? Yes, Jesus said we would suffer but he doesn't say God will give permission to the devil to cause it.

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Here is some of the story of "Job" how satin has NO AUTHORITY unless God allows it. Also notice from the beginning how satin was allowed into heaven and how satin could not lie to God.

Job 1: 6-22

6 One day the angels[a] came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[b] also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”
Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”
8 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”
Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
13 One day when Job’s sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15 and the Sabeans attacked and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The fire of God fell from the heavens and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”
20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:
“Naked I came from my mother’s womb,
and naked I will depart.[c]
The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away;
may the name of the Lord be praised.”

22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.

 

[wayseer]

Being in control and controlling are two different things.

When I drive my car I am in control but I am not controlling everything about my trip.

If you're not, who is?

OK - so if you cannot control every moment of your imaginary car trip is God in the same position with the universe? Are there things, contingencies, which escape his control.

Or does God deal in potentialities? God creates potentials - whether they work out or not is a matter for us humans - or chance. On this idea I like the Islamic thought that God's potential lies in his names (For Muslims God has 99 names or divine attributes).

And - where does science come into the equation? Like where is this dark matter that is propelling the universe outwards?

 

[WIP]

If you're not, who is?

I am not in control of the weather around me.
I am not in control of the other drivers on the road.
I am not in control of the mechanical components that may breakdown at any moment.

What I suggest is that God is in fact in control but he doesn't lead us around like puppets on a string.

 

[wayseer]

I am not in control of the weather around me.
I am not in control of the other drivers on the road.
I am not in control of the mechanical components that may breakdown at any moment.

What I suggest is that God is in fact in control but he doesn't lead us around like puppets on a string.

So God is NOT in control?

 

[WIP]

If that's what you heard in my writing, there's no point in discussing it further. I will not mince words for the sake of arguing. That will not benefit anyone.

 

[wayseer]

Logic has that effect.

 

[Gordon]

God is in control, but his mode of operation for the most part is to put us in a series of situations where we get to exercise our free will. We can choose to do good or to do evil, or to willfully stand back and surrender our will to the Lord. No evil can befall you that the Lord does not allow to happen. Suffering builds perseverance and faith. Our Lord Jesus Christ suffered for us while he was on earth, and if we are his followers then we should praise God when we suffer also, whether we understand his purpose or not.

It's easy to praise God when we are doing good, but how many can praise God in bad times? Shall we receive good at the hand of God and not evil? Our time on this earth is short, and we should look forward to the future and when we will be with the Lord. That what doesn't kill me can only make me stronger. I may not understand the Lords ways all the time but I take comfort in the fact that the Lord will not put on me more than I can bear.

When the Lord allows for children to die or a bus full of missionaries etc., then I remember that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Perhaps the Lord lets things of that nature to happen, in order to test others faith? When innocents are wronged evilly, then I would surmise that they will be rewarded for same in heaven. Prayer is the key. We are instructed to pray without ceasing. God mind and actions have been swayed before by fervent praying.

Hi Edward thanks for sharing your beliefs. I agree with you in the general sense God allows bad things to happen. God could do anything. I just don't agree that kids starving or drinking dirty water is God's specific plan for them. I don't think Jesus would plan to have a young Christian starve to death. I don't think that is the will of God.

Jesus said satan was trying to set up his own kingdom. To me that means he is not okaying all his actions with God. He can't do anything he wants but I don't think he is taking directions from God to make us better Christians or something. Also we are told to pray God's will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. This tells me the Earth is not exactly how God desires it. Also if a demon can try to stop the answer to prayer in the Bible then I assume my own prayers could be resisted.

I thank God for Him and his Kingdom in my life but I don't think all evil that happens to people is God's plan for them. Like Mother Teresa was she trying to relieve suffering that was the will of God?

 

[iLOVE]

The greatest example of all from Jesus why God is in control and that some sins are greater than other sins.

John 19:8-11
8 When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”

This clearly tells us the degree of control exercised by God. We also learn from this that some sins are worse than others, thereby we learn the Jews were held by God as more culpable than the Romans.

 

[heymikey80]

Hi Edward thanks for sharing your beliefs. I agree with you in the general sense God allows bad things to happen. God could do anything. I just don't agree that kids starving or drinking dirty water is God's specific plan for them. I don't think Jesus would plan to have a young Christian starve to death. I don't think that is the will of God.[

There're three facts in theodicy that need harmonizing.

-> God is infinitely capable of intervening.
-> God is good.
-> Evil exists.

The question has to redound to those who think such evils exist: why doesn't God intervene to stop them? I've only seen a couple of answers, one of which is admittedly not satisfying to my view of justice (the showing of evil as evil), the other which points to the sinfulness of mankind.

They seem to be the solutions, to me. What was it Sherlock Holmes said -- remove the impossible, and what remains, however improbable, is the truth.