Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

[savedbygrace57]

former a

In my own understanding, God created mankind in
his own image and in his own likeness.

He did ! So what is it you do not believe about post 62 ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

former a

Therefore, we first should understand that
evil, as understood to be sin, was not created by God, because Sin is a
violation of Gods will, and God does not violate his own will. Mankind however
does violate Gods will, and God created mankind.

You do not understand that God created this world for a Redemptive Purpose centered in Christ Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[former atheist]

former a



He did ! So what is it you do not believe about post 62 ?

I think you should read all of what I posted above. However, I will reply directly to what you say in post #62 if that is what you would prefer.

You do not understand that God created this world for a Redemptive Purpose centered in Christ Eph 3:9-11

I must make the assumption that you have not read what I had to say in its entirety. As what I had to say actually supports what Ephesians 3:9-11 has to say.

You do not understand that God created this world for a Redemptive Purpose centered in Christ.

It is not nice for you to tell me what I do or do not understand. If you believe me to be in error, please, question me directly to the point in which you feel I have made an error or ask me to clarify on a specific point. Especially if something seems to contradict the Word of Our Lord.

 

[savedbygrace57]

former a

I think you should read all of what I posted above.

What is it you do not believe about post 62 ?

I must make the assumption that you have not read what I had to say in its
entirety.

[edited]

 

[former atheist]

former a
What is it you do not believe about post 62 ?

First of all, my post was not in reply to post #62, but rather the topic question.

Secondly, I do not believe God Created mankind with a nature to Sin, but with the capacity to Sin. You would know that if you had bothered to read my post in its entirety, and you furthermore would realize that in my conclusion I basically summarize in part that God created mankind with the pre-intent for redemption through Christ Jesus to fulfill His own Will in its entirety.

You see, God wanted to create mankind in his own likeness. This also was to include Free Will. A result of Free Will can be Sin against God and Gods Will; therefore invoking Gods perfect Justice upon Sin that would in fact destroy mankind. However, with Christ Jesus, both his Justice and his Will to Create mankind could both be complete without contradiction to one or the other. I made this all clear; at least, I felt that I was coherent in my post.

Therefore, your accusation that I don’t understand is based on perhaps your misunderstanding of what I was speaking to. If not, then explain in what way you feel I do not understand, because your saying so without backing up you accusation, doesn’t mean much to me.

 

[savedbygrace57]

former a

First of all, my post was not in reply to post #62

But that is what I asked you to respond to !

Secondly, I do not believe God Created mankind with a nature to Sin, but with
the capacity to Sin.

Thats what a sin nature is when it is first created, all it needs now is opportunity to manifest itself for what it is.

The Man Born of God does not have that capacity to sin 1 Jn 3:9

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now that is a Man that is born or created by God without a sin nature ! Eph 4:24

And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

 

[Elijah674]

Hello SavedByGrace57.

I was reading your thread and wondering how you
arrived at your proposition. This is what you stated;

"He created the devil for His Pleasure and ordained his activities, He created Adam for His pleasure and ordained his activities and the subsequent consequences."

I am aware of only one verse in the OT that you could
employ to deduce this most remarkable opinion.

Texas man catches child rapist in the act, kills him.

So it is being said that God took great (or any) pleasure in, and ordained this reporting???

--Elijah

 

[John O]

Texas man catches child rapist in the act, kills him.

So it is being said that God took great (or any) pleasure in, and ordained this reporting???

--Elijah

Until Jesus returns to judge the world both good and evil are allowed to operate in this world not because God can not stop the evil but because when judgment is completed this world ends and no more people will have the opportunity to come to salvation.

As tragic as the evil is how much more tragic will it be on that day when the opportunity to receive salvation is no more.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John O

 

[Elijah674]

Until Jesus returns to judge the world both good and evil are allowed to operate in this world not because God can not stop the evil but because when judgment is completed this world ends and no more people will have the opportunity to come to salvation.

As tragic as the evil is how much more tragic will it be on that day when the opportunity to receive salvation is no more.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John O

Did you read post 65??

 

[John O]

Did you read post 65??

Sorry don't understand your point post 65 does not contradict what I have written. Maybe you could explain what issue you are seeing that I am not.

John O

 

[savedbygrace57]

That the World was Created for a Redemptive Purpose, and so God purposed and brought into the World sin and death through His creatures, is true because before it [The World] was Created, God hath already in Purpose laid the iniquities of His Elect upon Christ. We know this from various scriptures ! Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Before the foundation of the world is before Adam was Created !

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Also, The Things that do occur in Rev 20-22 at the End of all things, those were the Things God Purposed and had in Mind when He began Creation in Gen 1-3, So the end of all things, though last in performance, yet was First in Purpose or Intention !

 

[BobE]

The answer to the question is absolutely Yes ! All things are made or created for God's good pleasure Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

If we believe in the True and Living God, then we ought know He is the First Cause of all causes.

He created the devil for His Pleasure and ordained his activities, He created Adam for His pleasure and ordained his activities and the subsequent consequences.

From the time God said this Gen 1:1-3

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

It put into effect this Eph 1:11


In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

If we do not believe this, rest in this, and we do debate it, reject it, we are no better off than an athiest ! We are as David wrote Ps 14:1

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Well, I believe that God created humanity, but I also believe that humans are responsible for their own choices and actions. Some of these are "evil."

This notion is supported in the following Bible verses:

James 1:13,

"King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man."

and Is 54:15,


English Standard Version (©2001)
If anyone stirs up strife, it is not from me; whoever stirs up strife with you shall fall because of you.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"If anyone fiercely assails you it will not be from Me. Whoever assails you will fall because of you. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake."

I don't think God either desires or merits credit as the author of our evil deeds.

 

[BobE]

Texas man catches child rapist in the act, kills him.

So it is being said that God took great (or any) pleasure in, and ordained this reporting???

--Elijah

I think some Bible verses I just quoted in an earlier thread address this. James 1:13 explains that evil doesn't come from God. He takes no pleasure in it. In fact acts like the one described here are described by God as "abominations."

Also, Is 54:15 contains a passage in which God says to Israel that if people attack them, this attack will not come from him. In other words, it is neither his doing, nor his will.

Some medieval theological viewpoints do not recognize the truth of these Bible verses. I think some of what has become entrenched in doctrinal tradition is nothing more than human misunderstanding, wrongly perceived to be the word of God. I believe this grieves God greatly.

 

[savedbygrace57]

bob

Well, I believe that God created humanity,

He certainly did, but you do not seem to understand why ! He did it to bring Glory to Himself through the redemptive work of Christ when He died for sin !

 

[duari91]

Sin and Evil are terms created by humans. It is a simple way to explain something that is opposed to God. For example, evil would be the polar opposite to what God is, good. Sin is an act committed that rivals the instructions of God. I would assume that most of this is self-evident to all of you.

Let's look at a potential reason of why God introduced the idea of evil/sin. I believe the answer is simple, he wanted a being that he could fellowship with, but was also like himself. I am sure he could have created us perfect from the get go, but wouldn't that make us similar to angels? If God was content with angels, then he wouldn't of created man.

Without the existence of sin/evil, we probably wouldn't of been able to actually CHOOSE God. We would have been perfect, thus we would have accepted God in his entirety. However; since this is not the case, God will now be able to fellowship with us for eternity. Beings that WILL be perfect after death, and know both right and wrong. I am sure angels know both right and wrong, but are they programmed? I mean, if you create a perfect being and give them knowledge of right/wrong, you will always do the right thing. Unless of course God allows you to do the wrong thing (In the case of Satan).

This is the reason I believe we are unique. We will have qualities that angels will never have. Which is first being impure, knowing right from wrong, choosing God, dying, and then becoming perfect through Christ (going to heaven) while still knowing right from wrong.

The will of God can be so complicated. Heck, maybe God was just lonely and wanted someone like himself to fellowship with .

 

[savedbygrace57]

duari

I

would assume that most of this is self-evident to all of you.

I am assuming you do not understand the primary purpose for which God Created this world for ! It was for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus !

 

[duari91]

duari

I

I am assuming you do not understand the primary purpose for which God Created this world for ! It was for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus !

Are you implying you know why this world was created? Of course redemption is a factor, I agree, but do not pretend to understand the will of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

duar

Are you implying you know why this world was created?

Yes, for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus ! Scripture says of Him this Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

 

[John O]

duar



Yes, for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus ! Scripture says of Him this Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The word also says God create man for His pleasure so how is mankind able to create pleasure if God created evil that God knew would destroy His creation whom He did so for His pleasure. A house divided against itself can not stand. This would make God divided against Himself. I do not think so.

John O

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ's predetermined death !

Christ's death in time for sin, brought about by the wicked hands of men, is but a declaration and evidence of the Eternal Counsel of God the Father, established before the world began ! Peter preached this Truth here Acts 2:23

22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

Acts 4:25-28

25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?

26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

So then sin and wicked hands to carry out to carry out this Eternal Purpose Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

were God's intent when He said this in Gen 1:3

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Yes, all things, this light included, were Created for the exclusive Purpose of Christ Jesus being slain by wicked, sinful hands Col 1:16

16 For by him[Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him[Christ]:

For Adam did nothing except what God's purpose predestinated him to do Acts 4:27-28.

Now just as the characters involved in Acts 4:27

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

as they were gathered in place to do what God had determined to be done Vs 28

For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

so likewise the characters in Gen 3:1-6 were gathered together to act out and do what God in His counsel determined to be done !