Bible Study Is Hell Eternal, Anhialation or temporary??

[th1b.taylor]

Boyce,
If you ask 500 people you will get five hundred different opinions that will fall into three groups. First and by far the largest group is I don't know or care. The other two smaller groups can be found, in residence on most Christian Web Sites and to be, perfectly, honest, their opinions matter just as little as the majority of the world.

The answer is found in the scriptures. I suggest you either use a free copy on the web or purchase a hard copy of the Nave's Topical Study Bible. I use both and my hard copy cost me 25 dollars for a hard back copy. With access to either do the extensive study found there and form your own opinion because the Navy Chaplin, Naves did all of the studies and kept the listing for us to use at our discretion, it is a wonderful study tool.

I'll give you my opinion but before I do there is one, widely, accepted first rule of Hermeneutics you need to be aware of. "No scripture, nor any group nor collection of scripture can ever be understood, in any depth, without the, clear, light of all other scripture shinning on it/them.

My conclusion is that Hell is Eternal Suffering. God is an Eternal being, just as Satan and the angels that God created Hell to contain and this will be the case as soon as the thousand year reign of Jesus and the fiery destruction of the Earth are completed. Man, also is an eternal being, one without end.

In the Genesis Creation Account we find that God said "Let us create man in our image." That gives birth to the question, do God look like me or does God look like someone else? The problem is, we all look like God, Jew, German, Indian and on and on... but we all look differently, on the outside.

On the inside the spirit of man resides and I do not mean his attitude of life, I mean the part that is the Image of God, the spirit being that our bodies contain and that, being the image of the Eternal God is eternal. Eternal in life or eternal in death. Good studies my brother and if I can assist, do not hesitate to PM me.

 

[Adstar]

The Lake of fire is Eternal. There is enough scripture affirming this truth. I would encourage those who do not believe in the eternal suffering in the lake of fire to read the Bible more.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lakeoffire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

The false prophet is definitly a Human being....And so is the beast.

 

[Kathi]

Why? People do need to know that Hell is very real and very eternal.

You are very right but I have been in forums like that before and I have definitely given my belief and I have gotten so frustrated with the weird beliefs that I had to leave forever.

 

[Pizza]

You are very right but I have been in forums like that before and I have definitely given my belief and I have gotten so frustrated with the weird beliefs that I had to leave forever.

You and me both.

 

[JLB]

But Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life threw our Lord Jesus Christ? That's why I'm confused. One verse suggests something and the next says something else.

The second death involves the spirit man and spiritual matter.

The first death involves flesh and blood and natural matter.

The death that is referenced in the above scripture you mentioned is the second death, since all die a natural death whether they are righteous or not. [Exception is the Rapture at the end of the age]


Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Matthew 25:41,46


These unrighteous one's that Jesus sentenced to the everlasting fires, receive the same punishment as the devil and his angels.


Which is -

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Revelation 20:10


The devil: tormented day and night forever and ever.

The unrighteous: tormented day and night forever and ever.


Same sentence from Jesus.

The second death is being cast into the lake of fire -

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:14-15


JLB

 

[Doulos Iesou]

So I've been struggling with the thought of a eternal lake of fire for those who didn't accept Jesus. I know there's bible verses that say hell is eternal and others that say sin leads to death, and the dead know no more.

I don't know much about this subject so I thought I would ask what your view on this is? It seems like one website says something and the other says something else..

Hi Boyce,

I too am someone who struggled with this doctrine a bit and studied it quite extensively, from the Biblical basis as well as it's historical evolution into the modern age.

I am what some would call an Annihilationist, though I prefer the term Conditional Immortality, in that the power and gift of immortality is simply not given to the wicked, but only to the righteous in Christ.

 

[Willie T]

Are any of you parents? I suspect that most of you had parents?

Why is a child punished? I mean, what is "punishment" intended to accomplish?

 

[th1b.taylor]

You and me both.

Some will say that the saddest point about this is the lack of study on the subject but I will always point to Intentional Stupidity and no, I do not mean Intentional Ignorance. The Intentionally Ignorant have refused to study and the Intentionally Stupid refuse to believe what they have studied.

This category of Misinformation is not limited to Hell but it does have deep roots in this subject and all of these roots are grounded in preference, not truth. In my years as a Bible Teacher, I have been perpetually disappointed because my continual request is for the people I teach to catch me being wrong.

I do have a growing connection with the Holy Spirit/God but I am not the Know All Captain. A few years ago I took the Grumpy Old Men's Class and I took a Class Survey on what to teach. They, almost, unanimously wanted to go through the Bible, as a several year class, beginning with the Revelation followed with Genesis and then forward.

Some of my personal commentary, printed and offered every week, delved into living a Holy Life. In the comments I mentioned the Present Day Holiness Movement and the lies being taught as fact in it. One of my students, almost my age, confronted me as soon as he read that every one of us can live the Holy Life god has set apart for us to live. I explained that Holy life did not require we live a sinless life but rather that we must remember we are a people set apart to live for God, to the best of our ability with deep threads sewing repentance into our lives.

This particular gentleman was the leader of an undercurrent, no matter who the teacher was and when he spoke I wanted to cry and to pray. He said, "Not every one is as holy as you, Bill Taylor!" My heart was not the only thing broken, right then, his followers all cheered him on and the next and several following Sundays, my class was inhabited by myself and two other old men. All the others went to a large church in the area.

I have long taught the scriptures, to adults, on the truth of Hell and this subject, like the Holy Life subject, draws so much hatred from people and there is no sadder thing in this world. the truth is that man, the physical, is mortal. On the other hand, man, the spirit, is eternal and it is my firm position that part of the image of God, the image we were created in is that eternal spirit.

Satan and the Angels are, like God, eternal spirits and every person was, like the angels, created by God. this requires reading, prayer and meditation on the Word of God and many have told me this is my opinion but I will return, always, that this is what the Holy spirit of God has taught me and I will need to stand fast on it.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hi Boyce,

I too am someone who struggled with this doctrine a bit and studied it quite extensively, from the Biblical basis as well as it's historical evolution into the modern age.

I am what some would call an Annihilationist, though I prefer the term Conditional Immortality, in that the power and gift of immortality is simply not given to the wicked, but only to the righteous in Christ.

Perhaps you could lay out a study from the word of God to teach or to correct an old teacher of the scriptures? I fail to find one in either Torrey's or Naves' Topical study guides that leads to this conclusion causing me to believe this might be your opinion?

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Perhaps you could lay out a study from the word of God to teach or to correct an old teacher of the scriptures? I fail to find one in either Torrey's or Naves' Topical study guides that leads to this conclusion causing me to believe this might be your opinion?

I'm here primarily to answer Boyce's questions concerning this, and not to debate since this is not a debating forum.

This doctrine is probably not mentioned in those study guides because it is simply a doctrine they do not agree with. I didn't make this up of course, and it has a long history within the church. It is my opinion that it is true, and I have justifications for holding to such an opinion, but it is important for everyone to know that I am a fallible teacher who has simply done the best I can to reconcile Scripture and the nature of God.

The doctrine of Conditional Immortality is simply about how God is redeeming and restoring creation and destroying evil forever. Only those who are in Christ receive eternal life and immortality, destruction of body and soul await those who are punished in hell. The Bible uses all kinds of different ways of conveying the frightening truth of oblivion, primarily drawing off of the apocalyptic genre of literature from the prophets of old. Using terms like fire to represent God's righteous judgment, yet at the same time representing the eternal fire that consumes, as it did Sodom and Gomorrah who underwent the penalty of eternal fire and serve as an example for others.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I'm here primarily to answer Boyce's questions concerning this, and not to debate since this is not a debating forum.

This doctrine is probably not mentioned in those study guides because it is simply a doctrine they do not agree with. I didn't make this up of course, and it has a long history within the church. It is my opinion that it is true, and I have justifications for holding to such an opinion, but it is important for everyone to know that I am a fallible teacher who has simply done the best I can to reconcile Scripture and the nature of God.

The doctrine of Conditional Immortality is simply about how God is redeeming and restoring creation and destroying evil forever. Only those who are in Christ receive eternal life and immortality, destruction of body and soul await those who are punished in hell. The Bible uses all kinds of different ways of conveying the frightening truth of oblivion, primarily drawing off of the apocalyptic genre of literature from the prophets of old. Using terms like fire to represent God's righteous judgment, yet at the same time representing the eternal fire that consumes, as it did Sodom and Gomorrah who underwent the penalty of eternal fire and serve as an example for others.

I'm not going to call you out for a debate, this is a Bible Study Forum String and I have, in an off handed fashion, perhaps, but I have given access to the studies I am vocalizing from. Please, if you are going to teach the Bible, do all of us the service of demonstrating the background source of your instruction material.

The very nature of this study demands the source material, less opinion. Let me study your material.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

I'm not going to call you out for a debate, this is a Bible Study Forum String and I have, in an off handed fashion, perhaps, but I have given access to the studies I am vocalizing from. Please, if you are going to teach the Bible, do all of us the service of demonstrating the background source of your instruction material.

The very nature of this study demands the source material, less opinion. Let me study your material.

I don't base my doctrine off of a particular Bible study material. My conclusions are drawn from my own personal exegesis of the Scriptures in their original language, given the totality of the material within the Bible on this particular topic, also taking into account other theological ideas and the character of God.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I don't base my doctrine off of a particular Bible study material. My conclusions are drawn from my own personal exegesis of the Scriptures in their original language, given the totality of the material within the Bible on this particular topic, also taking into account other theological ideas and the character of God.

In that case assembling and posting the study is simple and if it is as thorough as some of Torrey's and Naves' studies, then please, give it to us in small doses so as not to be laborious to yourself. None of us will fault you for doing it in small doses. After all, it takes about 80 hours to read the entire Bible and about the fastest I can do it in is about 6 months, what with prayer and waiting, sometimes, for God to answer a question.

But please, this is Bible study and I want to study.

 

[smaller]

Unfortunately this particular subject matter gets taken up by a nearly innumerable amount of psychopaths and used to manipulate and threaten people over their theology. It's a most unfortunate form of vile manipulation, the 'believe like me or fry alive forever' crowds.

That being said, I have zero issues with the devil and his messengers spending eternity in torture, and yes, that would be forever and ever and an extra ever thrown in for eternal measures.

Discussions revolving people in said lake for me are this: There are exactly zero examples in the scriptures of this fate for people. So it's pretty easy for me to conclude that the case is and will remain cloudy to the end of this present age. From there the shakeout is to see who will give other people the benefit of the doubt and who wants to manipulate others with threats. And in this I find the Lake of Fire conversations intensely revealing of the people who handle the subject matter.

The do unto others commands don't seem to apply well with manipulators of people when it comes to this particular subject.

There are no easy answers in theology.

 

[LovethroughDove]

There is a show that was on called "I Survived, Beyond and Back". This show recounts people's experiences after they leave their body after death. There are some people that have gone to hell and back and it correlates with the Scripture in Luke 16:19-31

In Luke 16:31 He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"

I believe this is speaking about Jesus rising from the dead, but also those who have been to heaven and hell with their Near Death Experiences.

 

[LovethroughDove]

Unfortunately this particular subject matter gets taken up by a nearly innumerable amount of psychopaths and used to manipulate and threaten people over their theology. .

If people really believed they would fry forever, they wouldn't lay a hand on anyone.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

In that case assembling and posting the study is simple

It's not that simple, in that it takes a good amount of time. Perhaps there are specific topics or passages you would want me to address?

and if it is as thorough as some of Torrey's and Naves' studies, then please, give it to us in small doses so as not to be laborious to yourself. None of us will fault you for doing it in small doses. After all, it takes about 80 hours to read the entire Bible and about the fastest I can do it in is about 6 months, what with prayer and waiting, sometimes, for God to answer a question.

But please, this is Bible study and I want to study.

I've addressed just about every passage on the subject in other threads on this forum, I've probably spoken on this issue than any other issue in my time here.

Here are some of the many threads where I was a regular participant.

http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/annihilationism-and-the-gospel.52969/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/why-wasnt-jesus-eternally-tormented.46894/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/is-physical-pain-experienced-in-hell.47374/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/eternal-conscious-torment-and-justice.51830/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...lationism-ignores-important-scriptures.51622/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowship/index.php?threads/annihilationism.54148/
http://christianforums.net/Fellowsh...w-does-c-i-and-e-c-t-affect-the-gospel.54194/

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Unfortunately this particular subject matter gets taken up by a nearly innumerable amount of psychopaths and used to manipulate and threaten people over their theology. It's a most unfortunate form of vile manipulation, the 'believe like me or fry alive forever' crowds.

That being said, I have zero issues with the devil and his messengers spending eternity in torture, and yes, that would be forever and ever and an extra ever thrown in for eternal measures.

Discussions revolving people in said lake for me are this: There are exactly zero examples in the scriptures of this fate for people. So it's pretty easy for me to conclude that the case is and will remain cloudy to the end of this present age. From there the shakeout is to see who will give other people the benefit of the doubt and who wants to manipulate others with threats. And in this I find the Lake of Fire conversations intensely revealing of the people who handle the subject matter.

The do unto others commands don't seem to apply well with manipulators of people when it comes to this particular subject.

There are no easy answers in theology.

This is a good point, and perhaps good to discuss in another thread, but it is about how the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment has been used throughout history and even in our modern times to manipulate people into the Kingdom through fear. Questions revolving around God's Justice, Love and Goodness really come to bear on this topic, more so than any other issue.

 

[Malachi]

... but it is about how the doctrine of Eternal Conscious Torment has been used throughout history and even in our modern times to manipulate people into the Kingdom through fear

Even if no preacher had preached on Hellfire and Damnation, we would still have the plain and direct words of the Lord Jesus Christ in the Gospels to warn sinners of eternal torment in the Lake of Fire. This doctrine comes straight from Christ Himself. That should suffice because He is God.

Above and beyond that, if there were no such place, then why was it even necessary for the Son of God to descend to this earth, and suffer, and bleed, and die a horrible death for our redemption? Redemption from what? Deliverance from what? Salvation from what? People need to make the connection between the Cross and Hell, and all will fall into place.

Finally people need to meditate on the absolute and perfect attributes of God. His holiness, His righteousness, His justness, His mercy, His grace, and His love. They are all connected to the doctrines of Hell and Salvation. God's holiness demands Hell, God's justice demands Hell, but God's mercy, grace and love offer the Cross. It is that simple.

IT IS NOT GOD'S WILL THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE (2 Peter 3:9).

 

[By Grace]

Good luck to you. I think the last thread on this subject was the one that went something like 2500 posts and was no closer to an answer than it was at post #1, but a few people found them selves on the receiving end of the rolling pin for the way they behaved! I sure hope this one goes better.

Unfortunately, sometimes unsubstantiated opinions are given more credence than are facts.

Which area is in fault in that case? Common sense and the law of non-contradiction make it obvious that opposites cannot be simultaneously true.