Is house church biblical?

[Adullam]

If Jesus' kingdom is not of this world as He Himself said....then it must be someplace else????

Jesus never said that His kingdom is not "of" this world in the sense that you mean. You are a victim of a translation problem (not your fault).

Here is the argument:

Note this from John 18:

Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" 34"Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?"
35"Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?" 36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

In verse 36, Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, 4 my kingdom is not from here

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from†(above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)â€Â

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world†reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.

LOL You are a funny one. All that to say the same thing.OK If you can understand that Jesus' kingdom is not from this world perhaps you can see that it is also different than the kingdoms of this world. Does the kingdom of God also condemn Jesus?

 

[shad]

Shad,

I thought it was pretty clear. Paul quotes truth from "secular" or "pagan" sources.
Part of being a Christian is seeing God's truth wherever you find it, and reclaiming (reconciling) those truths for Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:33 (Net Bible) Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good morals.â€Â
This "secular" truth was quoted from the poet Menander, born 342 BC in Athens.

Thus, be careful how you define "Secular" and its use as a label.

Grace and Peace.

Just because 1% of secular things is good doesn't mean I shouldn't generalize. Jesus says that the world is evil and corrupt. 1% isn't corrupt, but Jesus generalized and said the world is something to be apart from. If Jesus can say that the world is evil, then so can I.

 

[stovebolts]

Shad,
It's all about context and where it's found in the narrative my friend...

box.

Would you like to box?

Without context, this could be taken at least two different ways depending on your background.

In one place, the bible says that God loves the world. In another, Jesus states that we are a light to the world, yet another we are told that if we are friends with the world, we are enemies toward God... Context.. it's always about context.

Just because 1% of secular things is good doesn't mean I shouldn't generalize.

You will find nothing good in something that is truly secular. That is, apart from God. All wisdom and truth is from God. However, you may find it in some of the most unexpected places. ;)

This is why I say labels can be destructive... as you are calling God's truth secular...

 

[shad]

Shad,


In one place, the bible says that God loves the world. In another, Jesus states that we are a light to the world, yet another we are told that if we are friends with the world, we are enemies toward God... Context.. it's always about context.

God loves the world, I understand, that's why Jesus was sent. In overall, the world is not of God. Jesus says His followers are not of this world.

You will find nothing good in something that is truly secular. That is, apart from God.

over all, this world is not of God.

All wisdom and truth is from God. However, you may find it in some of the most unexpected places. ;)

Of course, but if it is good thing, it is of God. It is not of this world.

This is why I say labels can be destructive...

Jesus labels too.

as you are calling God's truth secular...

I did not say God's truth is secular, please dont put your words in my mouth. All good things are of God. It is not of this world, even though you find it in the world.

 

[shad]

Adullam wrote:
You are probably a JW or an adherent to a sect that denies the power of resurrection in Christ.

you are falsely testifying about them. JWs dont deny the power of resurrection in Christ.

.

 

[Drew]

LOL You are a funny one. All that to say the same thing.OK If you can understand that Jesus' kingdom is not from this world perhaps you can see that it is also different than the kingdoms of this world. Does the kingdom of God also condemn Jesus?

Of course it is different from other kingdom movements that fight for control in this world. But the kingdom of God includes "this temporal world".

 

[Adullam]

Adullam wrote:
You are probably a JW or an adherent to a sect that denies the power of resurrection in Christ.

you are falsely testifying about them. JWs dont deny the power of resurrection in Christ.

.

Notice the "or"

 

[stovebolts]

When I asked Addulum to define world, you stated

simple, secular world.

I showed you that Paul used truth found within, as you stated, 'secular' material and you replied,

Just because 1% of secular things is good doesn't mean I shouldn't generalize.

I replied,

as you are calling God's truth secular...

and you responded,

I did not say God's truth is secular, please dont put your words in my mouth. All good things are of God. It is not of this world, even though you find it in the world.

Tell me your not seeing the obvious

First off, I wasn't talking about generalizing, I was talking about labeling.
Secondly, my point was that one ought to be careful when labeling. In this case, I was warning about the label 'secular'. This was in response to my asking the question, "Define world". You said to the effect, "Secular".

Now then, about these labels, and heck, lets throw in house churches and 'organized religion' while were at it... You can build a biblical case for either if you were trying to justify either, and both IMHO would be acceptable. However, when one states, or infers that organized religion (Established churches) are evil and wrong in God's sight while 'house churches' are the only organized way to meet.. well then... I don't see that view supported anywhere in scripture.

Grace and peace.

 

[shad]

First off, I wasn't talking about generalizing, I was talking about labeling.

What's the differnce?

Secondly, my point was that one ought to be careful when labeling. In this case, I was warning about the label 'secular'. This was in response to my asking the question, "Define world". You said to the effect, "Secular".

Jesus lavels too, you have been ignoring what I have been saying.

Now then, about these labels, and heck, lets throw in house churches and 'organized religion' while were at it... You can build a biblical case for either if you were trying to justify either, and both IMHO would be acceptable. However, when one states, or infers that organized religion (Established churches) are evil and wrong in God's sight while 'house churches' are the only organized way to meet.. well then... I don't see that view supported anywhere in scripture.

If it is good for Jesus to label, it is good for me too.

I am surprised that you are harping on about this.

take care.

 

[stovebolts]

Shad,

First off, I wasn't talking about generalizing, I was talking about labeling.

What's the differnce?

Just like the "1% of secular things is good"
and the, "All good things are of God"

Even the angels cried out, "Holy holy holy is the Lord God almighty, the whole earth is full of His glory" and Didn't David say something like, "Where can I go that you are not present, if I go to Sheol (hell), you are there"

I suppose there isn't a difference. ;)

Grace and Peace.

 

[shad]

Shad,

First off, I wasn't talking about generalizing, I was talking about labeling.

What's the differnce?

Just like the "1% of secular things is good"
and the, "All good things are of God"

Even the angels cried out, "Holy holy holy is the Lord God almighty, the whole earth is full of His glory" and Didn't David say something like, "Where can I go that you are not present, if I go to Sheol (hell), you are there"

I suppose there isn't a difference. ;)

Grace and Peace.

What is your point? You seem to be totally ignoring Jesus' labeling.
.

 

[stovebolts]

Shad,
My point was that the substituted word 'secular' is not an accurate definition for the word 'world' within the context of our discussion.

Actually, what I think within the context of discussion, world could be defined as everything which opposes God or opposes how we were originally intended to live. This way of life can be found within religion and outside of religion. You see, its a human fault, not an institutional fault which is why you see the same issues within a house church as you do within organized religion. Both are expressions of humanity and how we live out our faith.

There are many things of this world that God placed here for us to enjoy. However, when we become hedonistic with those items, in one way, we could say that we are at the effect of those items. For example, and I'll only give one. There is nothing wrong with sex, but if one craves sex to the point of hedonism... it opposes God's original intent for sex. Thus, sex becomes 'worldly'. This applies to many areas of our life, including this topic, which seems to be against people meeting in church building once a week.

This way of looking at the world around us forces discernment in all arena's of life that is realized in true freedom and as our walk with God continues, our lives continue to be transformed more in the image of God.

Does that help clear up what I was trying to communicate to you? Let me know.

Grace and Peace.

 

[shad]

Shad,


There are many things of this world that God placed here for us to enjoy. However, when we become hedonistic with those items, in one way, we could say that we are at the effect of those items. For example, and I'll only give one. There is nothing wrong with sex, but if one craves sex to the point of hedonism... it opposes God's original intent for sex. Thus, sex becomes 'worldly'. This applies to many areas of our life, including this topic, which seems to be against people meeting in church building once a week.

This way of looking at the world around us forces discernment in all arena's of life that is realized in true freedom and as our walk with God continues, our lives continue to be transformed more in the image of God.

Does that help clear up what I was trying to communicate to you? Let me know.

Grace and Peace.

Stove,

It is not so complicated to distinguish what is worldly or not. When we are not living God centered lives, our desires are all worldly. I give you one example; do we get education to get ahead and get American dream, to get prestigious jobs? Those desires are all worldly. do you know what I am saying?


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