Bible Study Is infant baptism from the Bible?

[JLB]

As I stated in the beginning I don't consider such a practice unlawful. Therefore I don't speak of it in terms of error. And I leave it at that.

I gave one example where it may not be good for a person to believe they are saved, when they are not.

I believe the Lord warned her in a nightmare she was on the wrong path and yet she continued and continues and I personally fear her.
The dream she had goes like this. She said she found herself in a large long cavern lit by flames. Along the wall of the cavern was a ledge. Along the ledge were people waiting in a long line. The ledge was wide enough for her to walk along the line of people. Some of them she recognizes while others she did not. She asked them what they were standing in line for, but they just pointed toward the head of the line. When she reached the head of the line, She asked "What are you waiting for?" The person pointed and my daughter turned to see what they were pointing at and beheld a sight of horror. A person was seated in a chair and others were around him/her carving pieces of flesh from their face. After they got through, the person would be told to get up and the group around the chair would yell "Next!" The person got up from the chair still screaming in pain and run across the cavern floor to a lava river and jump in screaming. The people in the lava were flailing while burning up to bones. The skeletons continued screaming and flailing.....undead. My daughter ran back along the line trying to warn the others in line what was awaiting them, but none heeded. She said she awoke from that nightmare soon thereafter. When she told me the dream, I told her that was the most spiritual dream I'd ever heard of and asked her if she would write the dream down. I told her she had received the most direct warning I had ever heard of in dream form. She began turning on us soon after. She never heeded. As far as I can tell, she never will. Getting distance from her is part of the reason we moved so far away.

I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter.

God bless you and give you peace.

I pray your daughter will turn to the Lord.


JLB

 

[Randy]

I gave one example where it may not be good for a person to believe they are saved, when they are not.
JLB

While I do think there is a sense from those churches the children are sanctified by the baptism in case they die young clearly it was seen as a beginning of their journey into the faith as well.
And there is prayer in their behalf to "Jesus" to bless the children. Who are we to state there is no value in that and its a error?
Not me.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe the Lord warned her in a nightmare she was on the wrong path and yet she continued and continues and I personally fear her.
The dream she had goes like this. She said she found herself in a large long cavern lit by flames. Along the wall of the cavern was a ledge. Along the ledge were people waiting in a long line. The ledge was wide enough for her to walk along the line of people. Some of them she recognizes while others she did not. She asked them what they were standing in line for, but they just pointed toward the head of the line. When she reached the head of the line, She asked "What are you waiting for?" The person pointed and my daughter turned to see what they were pointing at and beheld a sight of horror. A person was seated in a chair and others were around him/her carving pieces of flesh from their face. After they got through, the person would be told to get up and the group around the chair would yell "Next!" The person got up from the chair still screaming in pain and run across the cavern floor to a lava river and jump in screaming. The people in the lava were flailing while burning up to bones. The skeletons continued screaming and flailing.....undead. My daughter ran back along the line trying to warn the others in line what was awaiting them, but none heeded. She said she awoke from that nightmare soon thereafter. When she told me the dream, I told her that was the most spiritual dream I'd ever heard of and asked her if she would write the dream down. I told her she had received the most direct warning I had ever heard of in dream form. She began turning on us soon after. She never heeded. As far as I can tell, she never will. Getting distance from her is part of the reason we moved so far away.

This may sound like wrong advice, but here's what I'd do....
First of all, the dream comes from a guilty conscience...but this is something she'll have to deal with.

I would not talk to her about God or Christianity anymore.
We fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities.
You're just fighting with the evil one.
Leave her be. Show her love.
She has to come around on her own.

This is: If you even speak to her anymore.
I'm sure we'll all be praying for you and her.

 

[GodsGrace]

While I do think there is a sense from those churches the children are sanctified by the baptism in case they die young clearly it was seen as a beginning of their journey into the faith as well.
And there is prayer in their behalf to "Jesus" to bless the children. Who are we to state there is no value in that and its a error?
Not me.

A child can be sanctified...I've taught our faith to children and I have witnessed this first-hand. However, it is highly unlikely because they don't really understand about God yet.

Sanctified means set apart for the work of God.
A child cannot be set aside because they are deep into the world's ways. This cannot happen until the child, at the very least, reaches the age of reason. Sanctification means giving yourself to God, and is a life-long process.

I do agree that it's a beginning into their journey into the faith.

As to if they die young. As I've said many times before, this problem did not exist until the doctrine of Original Sin as Augustine understood it.

We are born with a sin nature because of Adam's sin...but we are not personally responsible for it...we are responsible only for our own sins, we only suffer the consequences of O.S.
Ezekiel 18:20
20“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

Augustine believed that O.S. is charged to our account and thus it was taught that babies had to be baptized. Why the church ever accepted this doctrine is a mystery to me.

 

[JLB]

While I do think there is a sense from those churches the children are sanctified by the baptism in case they die young clearly it was seen as a beginning of their journey into the faith as well.
And there is prayer in their behalf to "Jesus" to bless the children. Who are we to state there is no value in that and its a error?
Not me.

Again, here is what I said in my previous post which outlines the danger in infant baptism.


If people baptize their child out of sincere devotion to the Lord, then great.

If the child grows up and “thinks” he is “saved” because his parents told him his whole life he was already baptized as a child, then this is not good.

Some denominations teach that a person is “born again” when baptized in water.

No where did I use the term “no value” or “error”

Like Paul said of Sabbath Keeping ....
let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 1 Corinthians 14:5

• When a denomination makes it a commandment to baptize infants, then they have crossed the line.
• If a person condemn’s a person for baptizing infants then they also have crossed the line

For His Glory says it this way -

I see nothing wrong with infant baptism as being a baby dedicated to God in its upbringing by the parents, but its not for repentance

.



From what I read in the scriptures, baptism is for believers not unbelievers.


JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Again, here is what I said in my previous post which outlines the danger in infant baptism.


If people baptize their child out of sincere devotion to the Lord, then great.

If the child grows up and “thinks” he is “saved” because his parents told him his whole life he was already baptized as a child, then this is not good.

Some denominations teach that a person is “born again” when baptized in water.

No where did I use the term “no value” or “error”

Like Paul said of Sabbath Keeping ....
let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 1 Corinthians 14:5

• When a denomination makes it a commandment to baptize infants, then they have crossed the line.
• If a person condemn’s a person for baptizing infants then they also have crossed the line

For His Glory says it this way -

.



From what I read in the scriptures, baptism is for believers not unbelievers.


JLB

I agree with the above.

I just don't know of any church that teaches one is born again because he was baptized as an infant.

I know for sure the catholic church does not teach this.

 

[JLB]

Augustine believed that O.S. is charged to our account and thus it was taught that babies had to be baptized. Why the church ever accepted this doctrine is a mystery to me.

Yes. Agreed.

Jesus taught his disciples to “become” as little children.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:1-2



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. Agreed.

Jesus taught his disciples to “become” as little children.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”
Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:1-2



JLB

Which shows to me that children are already in the Kingdom of God...since we have to become as they are.

Good point.

 

[JLB]

Which shows to me that children are already in the Kingdom of God...since we have to become as they are.

Good point.

That’s the way I see it.

Be converted and “become” as little children... shows us the great importance and value of innocence born of humility.





JLB

 

[JLB]

I just don't know of any church that teaches one is born again because he was baptized as an infant.

Born again because of being baptized in water.

They call it being born again of water.

From John 3:5-6




JLB

 

[Edward]

Have you raised children Ed?
I've raised two.
One is saved.
One says he believes in God...but does he??
I don't think so.

Parents could do all they can to raise a child to believe in God, Jesus, Christianity...but they still have outside influences and forces working on them.

OTOH, some parents are atheist but a child could grow up to believe.

It can work both ways, but parents, ideally speaking, should raise their children to know and respect God and they should speak of Jesus all the time as if He were a part of the family. Oh,,,and expose them to church and other Christians.

Yes we raised two boys. My wife was catholic and we did not see eye to eye on God. I wasn't trying to be the spiritual leader of the home and wasn't even walking with God 2 but the Holy Spirit had been working on me and encouraging me to seek the Lord. So I was reading the word intermittently (carnally) and we all know how much I like to talk so we did accidentally argue our way into church a few times, lol!



And lo and behold, the kids, both of them responded to the alter call on their own because as I recollect I wasn't making a direct effort to steer the kids toward the Lord. So apparently the Holy Spirit was stirring the pot some too. But after my wife left me and the Lord allowed the rest of my life to be jerked out from under me and then saved my life at the last second, and confirmed it for me...then I learned of my mistake and began planting seeds into my children. After their grown and the wife is gone, lol.

But that's ok because it's isn't how you play the game, it's how you finish, praise the Lord!!

 

[GodsGrace]

Born again because of being baptized in water.

They call it being born again of water.

From John 3:5-6




JLB

I see...you're talking about adults.
Sorry 'bout that.
I just have never heard of a church that teaches that baptism saves. Some churches teach that if one believes but is not baptized, he is lost. This is also not true...

Right.
Baptism does not save....
Belief in God and adherence to His laws saves (living for God).
Of course, we should ALSO be baptized.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes we raised two boys. My wife was catholic and we did not see eye to eye on God. I wasn't trying to be the spiritual leader of the home and wasn't even walking with God 2 but the Holy Spirit had been working on me and encouraging me to seek the Lord. So I was reading the word intermittently (carnally) and we all know how much I like to talk so we did accidentally argue our way into church a few times, lol!



And lo and behold, the kids, both of them responded to the alter call on their own because as I recollect I wasn't making a direct effort to steer the kids toward the Lord. So apparently the Holy Spirit was stirring the pot some too. But after my wife left me and the Lord allowed the rest of my life to be jerked out from under me and then saved my life at the last second, and confirmed it for me...then I learned of my mistake and began planting seeds into my children. After their grown and the wife is gone, lol.

But that's ok because it's isn't how you play the game, it's how you finish, praise the Lord!!

Amen Ed.
God used the bad for good.
God works all for good to those who love him.
Genesis 50:20
Romans 8:28

I like to believe that God does what's best even if we don't understand it. Maybe if things had gone in the way that we would consider "good", it might have actually been worse for us in the long run.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart....
Proverbs

 

[Edward]

Amen Ed.
God used the bad for good.
God works all for good to those who love him.
Genesis 50:20
Romans 8:28

I like to believe that God does what's best even if we don't understand it. Maybe if things had gone in the way that we would consider "good", it might have actually been worse for us in the long run.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart....
Proverbs

He did. I didn't see it then but I can now in retrospect. It was my fault cuz i'm stubborn, and a last resort for the Lord, that He knew would work, lol! So there we are, a good thing! And so I came out of it stronger than I went into with. And the Lord has been taking care of me ever since.

The Lord let things be real good for me before that for quite a long time. But I was too stupid to listen. Too much pride. I think, I feel, I want, I have, I will. and all like that. So God had to say to this arrogant youngster, it is not about what you think, feel, want, have, or will at all, it is what I AM and Will...so I went and got out of my recovery bed and got down on to my knees!

True story, lol.

 

[GodsGrace]

He did. I didn't see it then but I can now in retrospect. It was my fault cuz i'm stubborn, and a last resort for the Lord, that He knew would work, lol! So there we are, a good thing! And so I came out of it stronger than I went into with. And the Lord has been taking care of me ever since.

The Lord let things be real good for me before that for quite a long time. But I was too stupid to listen. Too much pride. I think, I feel, I want, I have, I will. and all like that. So God had to say to this arrogant youngster, it is not about what you think, feel, want, have, or will at all, it is what I AM and Will...so I went and got out of my recovery bed and got down on to my knees!

True story, lol.

Right. We always see what God did in retrospect.
We can only see the moment...God sees all time.
My husband is sick with parkinsons and I'm going
through a tough time watching him change year after year.
Some day I'll know why God chose this instead of some other way ... Right now I just have to trust Him.

As to pride...yeah, Pride and Vanity are at the base of almost all sin. Jesus taught humbleness but with strength. I long to be more like Him; but we can only do our best.

I know God has shown Himself to you.
It's so good to know Him !

 

[daninthelionsden]

This may sound like wrong advice, but here's what I'd do....
First of all, the dream comes from a guilty conscience...but this is something she'll have to deal with.

I would not talk to her about God or Christianity anymore.
We fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities.
You're just fighting with the evil one.
Leave her be. Show her love.
She has to come around on her own.

This is: If you even speak to her anymore.
I'm sure we'll all be praying for you and her.

Yes. I believe you are right. I have ceased all communication with her and our oldest son. Our daughter was recruited by an FBI informant working at a major bank. By his own admission, he uses his position at the bank to view other peoples' financial profiles. He said he has access to anyone's financial information even if they aren't a customer of that bank. This is illegal, but he passes this information to the government for a fee. Our daughter recruited our oldest son. He turned on us soon thereafter. They both tried to recruit our youngest son. He is very protective of us and he threatened the two oldest to back off, stay away.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I guess what I'm getting at is, I don't believe in infant baptism so I didn't have any of our 3 kids baptized or christened and now I worry if I left my kids spiritually unprotected.......

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes. I believe you are right. I have ceased all communication with her and our oldest son. Our daughter was recruited by an FBI informant working at a major bank. By his own admission, he uses his position at the bank to view other peoples' financial profiles. He said he has access to anyone's financial information even if they aren't a customer of that bank. This is illegal, but he passes this information to the government for a fee. Our daughter recruited our oldest son. He turned on us soon thereafter. They both tried to recruit our youngest son. He is very protective of us and he threatened the two oldest to back off, stay away.

In today's world this is unfortunately true.
Nothing is private anymore. It's to fight terrorism, they say.
Here in Europe they're trying to do away with cash.
Cards are next.
Chips are next. The mark of the beast?

I'm happy to hear about your youngest son.
And the other two will have to learn about pain
by hitting their head against a wall.

Prayers.

 

[GodsGrace]

I guess what I'm getting at is, I don't believe in infant baptism so I didn't have any of our 3 kids baptized or christened and now I worry if I left my kids spiritually unprotected.......

NO D..
It happens even to the baptized.
There's a priest down in Rome that specializes in possession,
and all those persons have been baptized, but I don't know if they're believers.

You need both belief and baptism.
I believe this is what Jesus taught.

 

[stovebolts]

Again, here is what I said in my previous post which outlines the danger in infant baptism.


If people baptize their child out of sincere devotion to the Lord, then great.

If the child grows up and “thinks” he is “saved” because his parents told him his whole life he was already baptized as a child, then this is not good.

Some denominations teach that a person is “born again” when baptized in water.

No where did I use the term “no value” or “error”

Like Paul said of Sabbath Keeping ....
let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.


One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 1 Corinthians 14:5

• When a denomination makes it a commandment to baptize infants, then they have crossed the line.
• If a person condemn’s a person for baptizing infants then they also have crossed the line

For His Glory says it this way -

.



From what I read in the scriptures, baptism is for believers not unbelievers.


JLB

Amen