Is it a Sin - Stealing - to Copy CD's?

[SmooLife]

I would say, in my humble opinion, is yes, it is a sin.

The only way I would say it isnt is if you buy a cd and rip it to mp3 for your mp3 player. The law allows fair use, which means you are allowed to make backup copies. Its when you give them away and it deprives the creator of another sale where it becomes stealing.

 

[Nick]

What about these music sharing practices? Are these examples of "stealing" and sins?

1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church

There's probably a lot of scenarios I'm not mentioning.

Some, if not most would agree that these are, but they're subtle. And to be honest, I do this more than I like to admit.

I don't want to be a kill-joy. just sayin'

All of those senarios in Australia are illegal. And God said to obey the government. But I admit that I break the law in this way regularly, and I really think the laws here are stupid and behind the times.

 

[Nick]

Another thing to consider. One of my favorite bands System of a Down has a great deal of there music on their site that anyone can play and enjoy. So why can't i just download it and bypass the site all together seeing as they were offering it up freely.

Are they intending for you to listen to it streaming or are they offering an intended means to download it for you to own and keep without a price? If they have a "download" option, I see no problem. But if they have it on their site to listen, but you are finding a way to circumvent the system and permanently download it, YOU-ARE-STEALING.

I'm not saying I never make a copy of a cd for a friend, because I really like the band and think they will too, but I'm convicted by it. I probably shouldn't be doing that. Actually, that's a cop-out. I know I shouldn't be doing that.

+1

 

[Mike]

What about these music sharing practices? Are these examples of "stealing" and sins?

1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church

There's probably a lot of scenarios I'm not mentioning.

Some, if not most would agree that these are, but they're subtle. And to be honest, I do this more than I like to admit.

I don't want to be a kill-joy. just sayin'

All of those senarios in Australia are illegal. And God said to obey the government. But I admit that I break the law in this way regularly, and I really think the laws here are stupid and behind the times.

Nick, I respect your opinions in general, but I need you to explain something here. How is this "behind the times"? Your gov is just supporting the copywrite for the bands. As I said, I've done this more times than I like to admit, but I have a twinge of guilt about it. The times have changed as it applies to technology, but not as it applies to the obligation to copywrite ethics.
To me, copying or getting a copy for or from a friend respectively isn't as bad as going to a file sharing site where almost every song is there for the taking. We can't say "their rich and don't need to get richer" when we don't pay for the cd and take money out of their pockets. Its just like making copies of movies where they always say something before the main menu like: copying or distributing without expressed written concent is strictly forbidden.

How are the laws behind the times?

 

[Nick]

How are the laws behind the times?

Well, in Australia, if I buy a CD for example, I can copy it to my computer and then to my mp3. But I cannot have more than one copy per medium. That means that I cannot copy the CD I bought to either make a backup copy or a copy for me to listen to in the car. If it's for private use, I don't see a problem here.

 

[Mike]

How are the laws behind the times?

Well, in Australia, if I buy a CD for example, I can copy it to my computer and then to my mp3. But I cannot have more than one copy per medium. That means that I cannot copy the CD I bought to either make a backup copy or a copy for me to listen to in the car. If it's for private use, I don't see a problem here.

Now I understand. I'm not sure if it's the same in America, but I wouldn't have a problem making any number of copies for myself or my household for that matter. That law seems over the top, but maybe it's technically the same here. Buying a CD for the family seems appropriate.

 

[John]

I got an ideal. How about we find out what the artist(s) would make from each sale, download the music then send them the money. Cut out the middle man (I.e CD manufactures, stores etc.

 

[Nick]

I got an ideal. How about we find out what the artist(s) would make from each sale, download the music then send them the money. Cut out the middle man (I.e CD manufactures, stores etc.

I think that is what will eventually happen. And I don't think Record companies have a long future either.

 

[Mike]

I got an ideal. How about we find out what the artist(s) would make from each sale, download the music then send them the money. Cut out the middle man (I.e CD manufactures, stores etc.

If they could distribute them without the middle man, it seems they would have found a way long ago. Everyone wins in your scenario. I think, not sure, they pay a broker who makes deals with outlets makes deals with stores and online sellers. They need that contract in place, because they would only sell a slight fraction of the number they do if they tried it on their own - lesser known bands would hardly sell anything. They're a necessary evil, like rel-estate agents in my own experience. :mad

That would be the best scenario, though. As business gets more and more complex, as do laws, I don't think we'll eventually get there. Brokers are necessary.

So, John, were you just playing me, or do you really see nothing wrong with going to file sharing sites and downloaded all your CD's? Even a tiny bit of guilt?

 

[John]

So, John, were you just playing me, or do you really see nothing wrong with going to file sharing sites and downloaded all your CD's? Even a tiny bit of guilt?

Given the fact that the artists, recording companies, stores are still taking in millions a year regardless of piracy and the fact that the item "stolen" is so petty I would have to say no, i do not feel guilty one bit. When i can barely afford gas and food i will gladly take a music file off the net

 

[Nick]

So, John, were you just playing me, or do you really see nothing wrong with going to file sharing sites and downloaded all your CD's? Even a tiny bit of guilt?

Given the fact that the artists, recording companies, stores are still taking in millions a year regardless of piracy and the fact that the item "stolen" is so petty I would have to say no, i do not feel guilty one bit. When i can barely afford gas and food i will gladly take a music file off the net

As Christians, we are commanded not to sin and to obey the government, except where doing so will go against God's Will. It doesn't matter that people are still raking in millions a year - what you're doing is wrong. Sin is sin. God doesn't rank sin so neither should we.

 

[John]

I am not God ;)

 

[Guest]

What about these music sharing practices? Are these examples of "stealing" and sins?

1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church

There's probably a lot of scenarios I'm not mentioning.

Some, if not most would agree that these are, but they're subtle. And to be honest, I do this more than I like to admit.

I don't want to be a kill-joy. just sayin'

yes

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"Are these examples of "stealing":
1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church"

Legally YES - they all constitute a violation of Copyright laws.

In fact when I (or anybody else) go out to a "jam", get with other musicians, and PLAY any piece of music that is not in the "Public domain" - I'm breaking the Copyright laws.

but even that isn't so simple -
The opening song in the movie (and on the album) "O Brother Where art thou" is a public domain traditional "Work Shout" called "'Po Lazarus". It's actually a recording made in 1959 in the Mississippi State Prison of a "Chain Gang" singing while they toiled. "James Carter" is the "Lead voice", and the "Prisoners" are just exactly that - fellow prisoners. The recording was done by a "Musical archivist" who was collecting indigenous music at the time.

And the version of that "public domain" song sung in the movie - HAS a copyright, and performances of it are subject to the payment of royalties - to James Carter who's the "copyright holder.

On the "Down from the mountain" album, "Po Lazarus" is sung by the "Fairfield 4" - but it's THEIR (now copywritten) version of the piece - not Carter's.

One SPECIFIC exception to the Copyright law is the single performance of copy-written material in the course of a RELIGIOUS SERVICE - held in a venue normally used for the conduction of religious services, and NOT recorded at the time of performance.

So if you record your favorite granddaughter singing her piece in church - you're a law-breaker.

Another more "Foggy" exception is the use of copywritten material for the purpose of "study", or "education".

"Happy Birthday to you" is copywritten until 2030 by the Clayton F. Summy Company, and is therefore illegal to sing publically until it becomes public domain at that time.

It all Reminds me of a spray painted graffiti I saw in Germany on a sign that detailed all the stuff you COULDN'T do in the "Walking Zone" in Stuttgart. It said "Alles VERBOTEN".

Of course the PRACTICAL side of the issue is that UNLESS you mass-produce, and distribute a significant quantity of copywritten materials FOR PROFIT - there'll BE NO prosecution under the law - since there's only ONE PURPOSE to the law, and that's to ensure that if MONEY is made - the copyright holder gets "his cut".

How seriously you take any of this is a Romans 14 issue. Tomorrow night I'll head over to Midlothian with my 5-string, and engage in "illegal activity" with about 20 other musicians for several hours, and the audience will enjoy it immensely.

 

[Adullam]

"Are these examples of "stealing":
1. Burning a CD for a friend
2. Taking a copy from a friend, loading it on iTunes
3. Checking out a CD from the library for free and downloading it
4. Sharing files with people, even to your church"

Legally YES - they all constitute a violation of Copyright laws.

In fact when I (or anybody else) go out to a "jam", get with other musicians, and PLAY any piece of music that is not in the "Public domain" - I'm breaking the Copyright laws.

but even that isn't so simple -
The opening song in the movie (and on the album) "O Brother Where art thou" is a public domain traditional "Work Shout" called "'Po Lazarus". It's actually a recording made in 1959 in the Mississippi State Prison of a "Chain Gang" singing while they toiled. "James Carter" is the "Lead voice", and the "Prisoners" are just exactly that - fellow prisoners. The recording was done by a "Musical archivist" who was collecting indigenous music at the time.

And the version of that "public domain" song sung in the movie - HAS a copyright, and performances of it are subject to the payment of royalties - to James Carter who's the "copyright holder.

On the "Down from the mountain" album, "Po Lazarus" is sung by the "Fairfield 4" - but it's THEIR (now copywritten) version of the piece - not Carter's.

One SPECIFIC exception to the Copyright law is the single performance of copy-written material in the course of a RELIGIOUS SERVICE - held in a venue normally used for the conduction of religious services, and NOT recorded at the time of performance.

So if you record your favorite granddaughter singing her piece in church - you're a law-breaker.

Another more "Foggy" exception is the use of copywritten material for the purpose of "study", or "education".

"Happy Birthday to you" is copywritten until 2030 by the Clayton F. Summy Company, and is therefore illegal to sing publically until it becomes public domain at that time.

It all Reminds me of a spray painted graffiti I saw in Germany on a sign that detailed all the stuff you COULDN'T do in the "Walking Zone" in Stuttgart. It said "Alles VERBOTEN".

Of course the PRACTICAL side of the issue is that UNLESS you mass-produce, and distribute a significant quantity of copywritten materials FOR PROFIT - there'll BE NO prosecution under the law - since there's only ONE PURPOSE to the law, and that's to ensure that if MONEY is made - the copyright holder gets "his cut".

How seriously you take any of this is a Romans 14 issue. Tomorrow night I'll head over to Midlothian with my 5-string, and engage in "illegal activity" with about 20 other musicians for several hours.

Jesus was accused of harvesting grain illegally on the sabbath. Jesus was accused of being a winebibber.

How many ants did you tread on today?

There is no end to the nit picking. God is not a nit picker.There is some leeway where simple living is concerned. I agree with the above post. Churches break copyright laws all the time when performing songs of worship to God. Will God refuse the worship and say...hey you didn't pay that nickel to the writer of that song? If God inspired the artist in the first place, who is the benefactor? God gets the praise but we get the money?????

 

[John]

I was cleaning my PC files up today and came across some old Christian music that i actually bought but do not listen to anymore..anyone want them? They are in mint condition, i lost the receipt though so you cannot return them.

If no one claims them then i will have to throw them out :rolling

I also have some old music CD's that i paid for but have no use for so i will give them away also ;)

 

[Kevin Lowery]

I guess I'm going to hell, because I download music off of a file sharing program

 

[Mike]

I guess I'm going to hell, because I download music off of a file sharing program

Not really the spirit of this thread. Did you read it through? From your post in the JW thread, I assume you're a Christian. Do you see no conflict in ripping music you didn't pay for at all?

 

[Kevin Lowery]

I guess I'm going to hell, because I download music off of a file sharing program

Not really the spirit of this thread. Did you read it through? From your post in the JW thread, I assume you're a Christian. Do you see no conflict in ripping music you didn't pay for at all?

I know legalistically downloading music you have not purchased is technically "illegal",
and we are too be subject to the law of our government, but I personally don't get convicted when downloading music, unless the music I am downloading is very evil. I guess downloading music "illegally" is a sin by technicality, but I can't see myself or anyone who lives there life for Christ, burning for eternity because they downloaded a CD off the internet, it's not like I went into a store & actually stole a product, plus I am a person who has a deep passion for music, and I simply don't have enough money to spend on records, and even if I did, some records are so rare, the only way you can find them is through file sharing programs on the internet.

I think "Bob Carabbio" explained it well, it's all illegal "technically",
But the fact is God looks upon the heart, and isn't a nit picker,
I'm pretty sure on the day of judgment, it wont be like...
"well I'm sorry Kevin, but you downloaded that Beatles CD from Soulseek,
It's eternal damnation for you buddy, I appreciate you expecting my sacrifice,
and trying to live your life according to my moral law,
But I just can't allow music thieves like you in heaven, nor those worship bands in church breaking copy right laws"

 

[Nick]

it's not like I went into a store & actually stole a product,

Stealing is still stealing, no matter how much one wants to sugar-coat it.