Is it okay to lie to your kids if...

[President]

it's a lot of fun, it's a family tradition, your parents did it, most other families are doing it, and you are able to make the kids behave by threatening them with the lie?

What do you think about telling your kids there is a Santa Claus who gives them presents riding on a cart pulled by magic reindeer? Is it a sin to lie to them about him or not?

 

[felix]

When you tell something to little kids, they believe it as truth. These are seeds that will mold the way they think.

Why don't you also tell that Santa Claus is god Odin and the presents and gifts are for the celebration to the Wild Hunt and the pagan Anglo-Saxon Modranicht and Yule ?

I mean, you are already lying to your kid that Santa Claus is related birth of Christ.

 

[reba]

Young kids understand when one tells them a 'story' they understand 'make believe' . I see no harm in 'make believe' that is kept at make believe... Trying to tell your kids something is real when it is not, will only build mistrust..

Kids cant see Jesus He is a story. Kids cant see Santa he is a story. When they get a bit older and realize Santa is not real what do you think they will think of Jesus.?...

 

[Deborah13]

Young kids understand when one tells them a 'story' they understand 'make believe' . I see no harm in 'make believe' that is kept at make believe... Trying to tell your kids something is real when it is not, will only build mistrust..

Kids cant see Jesus He is a story. Kids cant see Santa he is a story. When they get a bit older and realize Santa is not real what do you think they will think of Jesus.?...

Reba, I've never thought of it this way, as in stories. I know my seven yr old grandson knows Jesus is real because some rather astounding experiences he has had, just between him and Jesus but the others are quite small yet and I don't know that they will understand. I am going to relay your thoughts to my daughter, she needs to think this over.

 

[farouk]

'Once upon a time...' is far, far less of a lie, than some of what passes for truth, as told in schools, because of the influence of some politicians.

 

[handy]

I don't know... I have kids, neices, nephews, great-neices, great-nephews, lots of friends kids and now friend's kid's children, lots of kids in the daycare that I worked at... I have no idea how many kids I've loved and worked closely with over the years, well into the 100's at least.

Not one of them ever suffered a crises of faith in Christ due to finding out that Santa was a fairy tale. Not a one.

I think the big difference between stories, fantasy and otherwise, and faith in Jesus is the Holy Spirit. If our kids believe in Jesus (which almost all the kids I've loved have) then they also have the Spirit helping them discern the realness of Christ. If the child doesn't believe in Jesus, then believe in Santa or not is the least of one's worries....

Every year the question of Santa comes up on this forum. Most years I've asked one or both of my kids if they ever suffered a hit in their faith in God because we played out the Santa story... Every year they laugh out loud at the very notion.

Make believe and fantasy has its place in our lives. If some don't want their kids to have make believe and fantasy in their lives...OK...as a parent one has the freedom to keep your kids firmly planted in mudane facts. But, for those of us who allow fairy tales, fantasies and make believe, Santa fits in pretty nicely and becomes a fun holiday tradition.

It's really no exaggeration that I've loved 100's of kids. My large family, even larger church family and my previous profession as a pre-school teacher in a church day care has placed many children in my life. If it is a fact that children are indeed harmed by the Santa story...fact that their faith in Christ will suffer because of it, then I should be able to think of a number of kids in which the sad "fact" played out. Broken, no longer believers because their parents "lied" to them about Santa. As it it, I cannot think of even one. As a matter of fact, a lot of the children I have known are now parents themselves, Christian, believing parents and they are happily playing out the Santa story with their kids as well.

Is Santa a lie? Only if all fiction and make-believe is a lie. If one truly believe this is "lying" to children, then one should not participate. But, there are many Christian parents that believe no such thing and find the very concept actually rather silly. (The silly part being that our Lord has so little actual realness that children who were allowed make-believe and fantasy in their lives will come to not believe in Him.)

 

[Mike]

Not one of them ever suffered a crises of faith in Christ due to finding out that Santa was a fairy tale. Not a one.

Nice post, Dora.

Oh boy... The fun police are on patrol again.

I would love to meet the kid who feels betrayed by the "lie" of Santa. Every time I see this concern expressed, I shake my head. This is similar to when I would take my son snipe hunting when we were camping. For years I would take him out as he carried his pillow case chirping "snipe! snipe! snipe!". One day he realized there was actually no such bird that would come to his call and jump in his pillow case. He was devastated! "Well if there's no such thing as a snipe, there must be no such person as Jesus!!".

No, he didn't say that. That's just silly.

 

[reba]

As always Dora very well said!

 

[Carolyn]

Young kids understand when one tells them a 'story' they understand 'make believe' . I see no harm in 'make believe' that is kept at make believe... Trying to tell your kids something is real when it is not, will only build mistrust..

Kids cant see Jesus He is a story. Kids cant see Santa he is a story. When they get a bit older and realize Santa is not real what do you think they will think of Jesus.?...

Amen again, Reba. I also wanted my kids to believe ME. So l told them it was someones daddy who was dressed up, and that the real Santa Clause lived a long time ago. He was a kind pastor
Who gave money to some poor people but didnt want anyone to know who really gave the gift.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Nice post, Dora.

Oh boy... The fun police are on patrol again.

I would love to meet the kid who feels betrayed by the "lie" of Santa. Every time I see this concern expressed, I shake my head. This is similar to when I would take my son snipe hunting when we were camping. For years I would take him out as he carried his pillow case chirping "snipe! snipe! snipe!". One day he realized there was actually no such bird that would come to his call and jump in his pillow case. He was devastated! "Well if there's no such thing as a snipe, there must be no such person as Jesus!!".

No, he didn't say that. That's just silly.

Oh boy, Mike. Are you for real?

I don't care if a youngster's so-called faith in Christ was affected or not. The commandements (which are still in effect today) say that you shall not bear false witness. The Santa lie is breaking the 9th commandment pure and simple. As a Christian, that's what I believe. I can't believe that my so-called brothers and sisters in Christ perpetuate this.

 

[felix]

I don't know... I have kids, neices, nephews, great-neices, great-nephews, lots of friends kids and now friend's kid's children, lots of kids in the daycare that I worked at... I have no idea how many kids I've loved and worked closely with over the years, well into the 100's at least.

Not one of them ever suffered a crises of faith in Christ due to finding out that Santa was a fairy tale. Not a one.

I think the big difference between stories, fantasy and otherwise, and faith in Jesus is the Holy Spirit. If our kids believe in Jesus (which almost all the kids I've loved have) then they also have the Spirit helping them discern the realness of Christ. If the child doesn't believe in Jesus, then believe in Santa or not is the least of one's worries....

Every year the question of Santa comes up on this forum. Most years I've asked one or both of my kids if they ever suffered a hit in their faith in God because we played out the Santa story... Every year they laugh out loud at the very notion.

Make believe and fantasy has its place in our lives. If some don't want their kids to have make believe and fantasy in their lives...OK...as a parent one has the freedom to keep your kids firmly planted in mudane facts. But, for those of us who allow fairy tales, fantasies and make believe, Santa fits in pretty nicely and becomes a fun holiday tradition.

It's really no exaggeration that I've loved 100's of kids. My large family, even larger church family and my previous profession as a pre-school teacher in a church day care has placed many children in my life. If it is a fact that children are indeed harmed by the Santa story...fact that their faith in Christ will suffer because of it, then I should be able to think of a number of kids in which the sad "fact" played out. Broken, no longer believers because their parents "lied" to them about Santa. As it it, I cannot think of even one. As a matter of fact, a lot of the children I have known are now parents themselves, Christian, believing parents and they are happily playing out the Santa story with their kids as well.

Is Santa a lie? Only if all fiction and make-believe is a lie. If one truly believe this is "lying" to children, then one should not participate. But, there are many Christian parents that believe no such thing and find the very concept actually rather silly. (The silly part being that our Lord has so little actual realness that children who were allowed make-believe and fantasy in their lives will come to not believe in Him.)

The issue is not about Santa being a fiction that affects faith in Christ but making them involved in paganism. If Santa Claus is not a problem, why don't you celebrate Christmas on Devali when a hindu female god was victorious over a giant and a female santa claus version (feminist would be very happy) and this can be celebrated with more than a billion people where they lit lights and candles for victory over darkness. The difference is, you want to use Norse god version called Santa Claus which make no better than a hindu god.

What makes you think Santa Claus is just fiction when it is actually paganism ?

 

[President]

My mother's memory is a bit fuzzy on this, but she said she believes she remembers my older sister being really sad when she found out our parents lied to her about Santa Claus and she asked, tearfully,

"Is Jesus real?"

With me and my younger brother, she told the truth. She said Santa was make-believe, but there really was a man named Nicolas who was very generous.

Just think about it. With the same mouth that you tell your children that Jesus rose from the dead, are you are going to tell your kids that a magic fat man squeezes down every chimney in the world and gives every child presents? If you are poor one year and you get cheap toys, your child believes he was naughtier than the children of richer parents at school.

I think I sat on some 'Santas' laps and had a good time without believing Santa Claus was real.

I also can't think of a single time my mother intentionally told me a lie. That's a pretty good testimony.

 

[President]

Is Santa pagan?

I think Santa Claus is probably 'mostly' a distorted version of veneration of saints. It is strange that if you ask a Protestant if he believes it is appropriate to pray to saints and write out prayers to them, he says no, but he might have his child write out a prayer to St. Nicholas, a materialistic prayer for lots of toys. If you ask your typical Protestant if it is acceptable to leave an offering of food for a dead saint, he would probably say 'no', but he might teach his kids to leave milk and cookies for Santa.

The English had this fictional figure of 'Father Christmas' who represented merriness during Christmas. During Puritan-Calvinist type government in English, Christmas was much less of a party time. The government was down on some of the types of heavy partying a lot of people liked. Father Christmas represented having a fun jovial time during Christmas.

The Dutch had a tradition of venerating St. Nicolas-- Sinter Klaus. The Dutch were the original European inhabitants of New Amsterdam, which became New York. From the Dutch community in New York, Santa became part of American culture. (I don't know if these Dutch were Protestants who kept up RCC habits or Roman Catholics.) Nicholas was known for being a miracle worker and for being the bishop of Myra. It is said that before he became bishop, a storm was miraculously calmed through him on a boat before he arrived at Myra. The legend says he inquired where the church met to go pray there upon his arrival. The bishop had died and the elders were praying for his replacement. One of them got a word, according to legend, that the next person to enter would be the bishop, so they put the bishop's robe on Nicholas when he arrived. Nicholas was wealthy and gave away his fortune to poor girls whose families could not afford dowries, throwing gold in their houses at night. Legend said gold once fell in a stocking by the fire. He negotiated a lower tax rate with the emperor for his city of Myra.

At the council of Nicea, Nicholas was so overcome at hearing the things Arias said, that, in spite of the emperor's commandment, he struck Arias on the face. (Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas to this day. ) He was jailed for this and his priestly garment was taken from him. Tradition says Christ and Mary gave him another one in his cell.

Father Christmas and St. Nicholas merged. There was the poem the night before Christmas. American Santa got reexported throughout the world.

Is all this pagan? I don't know about that. Christmas occurs during the shortest week of the year and lots of pagan religions celebrate that. There do seem to be some traditions in that old pagan Norse religion of things like Odin giving gifts on a certain night riding an eight legged horse. Maybe that influenced the Santa figure. I don't know for sure.

 

[felix]

Is Santa pagan?

I think Santa Claus is probably 'mostly' a distorted version of veneration of saints. It is strange that if you ask a Protestant if he believes it is appropriate to pray to saints and write out prayers to them, he says no, but he might have his child write out a prayer to St. Nicholas, a materialistic prayer for lots of toys. If you ask your typical Protestant if it is acceptable to leave an offering of food for a dead saint, he would probably say 'no', but he might teach his kids to leave milk and cookies for Santa.

The English had this fictional figure of 'Father Christmas' who represented merriness during Christmas. During Puritan-Calvinist type government in English, Christmas was much less of a party time. The government was down on some of the types of heavy partying a lot of people liked. Father Christmas represented having a fun jovial time during Christmas.

The Dutch had a tradition of venerating St. Nicolas-- Sinter Klaus. The Dutch were the original European inhabitants of New Amsterdam, which became New York. From the Dutch community in New York, Santa became part of American culture. (I don't know if these Dutch were Protestants who kept up RCC habits or Roman Catholics.) Nicholas was known for being a miracle worker and for being the bishop of Myra. It is said that before he became bishop, a storm was miraculously calmed through him on a boat before he arrived at Myra. The legend says he inquired where the church met to go pray there upon his arrival. The bishop had died and the elders were praying for his replacement. One of them got a word, according to legend, that the next person to enter would be the bishop, so they put the bishop's robe on Nicholas when he arrived. Nicholas was wealthy and gave away his fortune to poor girls whose families could not afford dowries, throwing gold in their houses at night. Legend said gold once fell in a stocking by the fire. He negotiated a lower tax rate with the emperor for his city of Myra.

At the council of Nicea, Nicholas was so overcome at hearing the things Arias said, that, in spite of the emperor's commandment, he struck Arias on the face. (Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate Christmas to this day. ) He was jailed for this and his priestly garment was taken from him. Tradition says Christ and Mary gave him another one in his cell.

Father Christmas and St. Nicholas merged. There was the poem the night before Christmas. American Santa got reexported throughout the world.

Is all this pagan? I don't know about that. Christmas occurs during the shortest week of the year and lots of pagan religions celebrate that. There do seem to be some traditions in that old pagan Norse religion of things like Odin giving gifts on a certain night riding an eight legged horse. Maybe that influenced the Santa figure. I don't know for sure.

Anything thing that is not influenced by Christ is pagan. How about a hindus - monkey headed hanuman or elephant headed ganesh giving gifts on Christmas? surely the kids would love it the same way they love odin. This simply shows how deeply paganism is rooted in every Christian failing to verify things based on Scripture, but continue to follow and even justifying it.

(Sent from mobile)

 

[Threen]

it's a lot of fun, it's a family tradition, your parents did it, most other families are doing it, and you are able to make the kids behave by threatening them with the lie?

What do you think about telling your kids there is a leds Santa Claus who gives them presents riding on a cart pulled by magic reindeer? Is it a sin to lie to them about him or not?

No it is not a sin

 

[Mike]

Every year around this time, this same thread is created and discussed. Both camps are unable to see it from the other camp's perspective.

When all was said and done, and all of our kids came to understand that Santa didn't bring their gifts, great memories of childhood fun remained. And because His birth was fully separated from the story of Santa coming down the chimney, Jesus remained as well. I don't know how I can explain this to people who are entrenched in merging the two. Even when they believed Santa was real, they were able to comprehend that Jesus' birth stood on its own merit. When one fell to the side as a secular tradition, the other remained as an immovable Truth.

President, I believe you are making much too much of this, but that is your right as a believer and parent. As I have the memories of my childhood and our children's wide eyes, I look forward to making memories for our future grandchildren.

 

[JustinAPetersWV]

My wife and I have been debating this... We have a young baby at home and have been going back and forth on the subject of Santa. I think its all about how you approach it. If you tell it as a story, just like any other fictional story, I see no problem with it. You don't need to tell your kids that every movie/story/fairy tale isn't real but once they are aware enough to ask you if little red riding hood is a real girl, if a duck can really lay a golden egg or if there is really a Santa who watches them all year and brings them gifts according to their behavior, then you have to be careful what you say. Outrightly lying to them is exactly that - sinful lying and contradictory to various Christian teachings and values.

Kids need to feel that they can trust their parents to protect them from not only physical harm but also falsehoods. Parents should recognize that they are teaching by example that lying is okay as long as you mean well.

Recap - telling story of Santa is okay. Swearing to the realness of the story is not.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[handy]

What makes you think Santa Claus is just fiction when it is actually paganism ?

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world because I've only lived in America. In America, Santa Claus has nothing to do with Norse paganism and very little to do with the Catholic veneration of saints, unless families choose to bring that into it. In America, Santa Claus is a mish-mash of Thomas Nast caricatures, and other cultural icons coming from places like the Netherlands (St. Nicholas), Germany (Kris Kringle) and England (Father Christmas) but more than anything personified in Clement Moore's poem, "Twas the Night Before Christmas", Gene Autry's "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" and the Edmund Gwenn character in "Miracle on 34th Street". The Santa Claus that my kids have fond childhood memories of would be just as perplexing to Odin worshipers and your Hindu gods. Rankin-Bass TV movies, not old world mythology, is where America's Santa comes from.

Christmas itself is more of a cultural rather than a religious holiday. I do know some Christians that don't celebrate Christmas at all, which is perfectly acceptable. However, the vast majority of the Christians that I've known and fellowshipped with celebrate Christmas, and we have no trouble separating the teachings of the birth and early years of Christ and Santa, Rudolph, Frosty et. al.

Where sin would come in, would be for anyone to a: compromise their own conviction by going along with things they are personally are convinced one shouldn't take part in and/or b: carry a judgmental attitude regarding another's freedom to either celebrate Christmas (including Santa) or leave it alone.

 

[President]

No it is not a sin

What other kinds of lies do you consider not to be sinful?

What do you do wiht Revelation 21:8
<sup class="versenum">8 </sup>But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[felix]

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the world because I've only lived in America. In America, Santa Claus has nothing to do with Norse paganism and very little to do with the Catholic veneration of saints, unless families choose to bring that into it. In America, Santa Claus is a mish-mash of Thomas Nast caricatures, and other cultural icons coming from places like the Netherlands (St. Nicholas), Germany (Kris Kringle) and England (Father Christmas) but more than anything personified in Clement Moore's poem, "Twas the Night Before Christmas", Gene Autry's "Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer" and the Edmund Gwenn character in "Miracle on 34th Street". The Santa Claus that my kids have fond childhood memories of would be just as perplexing to Odin worshipers and your Hindu gods. Rankin-Bass TV movies, not old world mythology, is where America's Santa comes from.

Why do you call "my" Hindu gods? I have nothing to do with those paganism. I just showed you how the Norse mythology had infiltrated into Christianity which is no better than using hindu gods to celebrate Christmas. If Santa has nothing to do with Norse paganism, what is it doing on a Christmas day ? If a hindu comes with a monkey head and a elephant head, what stops you from not celebrating with those as icons of Christmas?

Christmas itself is more of a cultural rather than a religious holiday. I do know some Christians that don't celebrate Christmas at all, which is perfectly acceptable. However, the vast majority of the Christians that I've known and fellowshipped with celebrate Christmas, and we have no trouble separating the teachings of the birth and early years of Christ and Santa, Rudolph, Frosty et. al.

Where sin would come in, would be for anyone to a: compromise their own conviction by going along with things they are personally are convinced one shouldn't take part in and/or b: carry a judgmental attitude regarding another's freedom to either celebrate Christmas (including Santa) or leave it alone.

While you yourself clearly mentioned the separation of "the teachings of the birth and early years of Christ and Santa, Rudolph, Frosty", excluding Christ which is meant by the other separation which includes Santa and has nothing to do with Christianity? Isn't it the celebration people are after which includes even paganism and no desire and love for Christ? Will any Christ desiring person would ever love to celebrate using pagan icons?

If Paul or any of the early disciples or apostles celebrate Christmas, will they use a Santa Claus?

Celebrating using fireworks or putting a star on the house or a small scale version of birth of Jesus etc are no problem. However, adding Christmas tree and Santa which has nothing to do with Christ and His birth becomes a problem.

Thor's Oak is the place where human sacrifices were made which is now converted to Christmas tree. What a love for Christmas tree and Santa irrespective of their abominable paganistic past!!