Is It Possible For A Christian To Fall From "Grace"?

[bluegirl]

I just looked it up on Google. Read for about 15 minutes. Most I could stand. Seems as if the Armstrongs had a lot of falling off the fence into sin issues and generally created a divided house to this day. I did notice some interesting things they pursued, such as how the Sabbath should be dated, celebration of feast days, etc. but also some other things that I felt would distract me from the New Covenant and from Jesus. :nod

 

[tonia]

I came across this forum In Search of help. I think I may be one who fell from grace. After years of believing in Jesus alone for my salvation and walking a weak walk, I walked away from God into deliberate sin for 4 years. At the end of that time I realized how much I missed a close relationship with God so I decided to turn back seek forgiveness and move forward. 2 years later I was in church and during the altar call I asked myself how I could have sinned so much against Jesus knowing what He had done in the cross for me. I decided that I hadn't truly and fully accepted jesus and told God I needed to make Jesus my master and be obedient to be saved, not just accept Jesus as my savior. My world turned upside down after this decision. I have not had peace since. Now 2 years since that event and I struggle to have faith. Not in the sufficiency of Jesus blood, but in whether I am ever to have its application for my sins again or if it is still covering them and I just can't see it. I have read Galatians 5, Hebrews 6 and many other scrioture that now screams condemnation to my heart. I swear if it was done against God in the bible...I did it all. So now the question is that if I fell from grace is it available to me still? Am I now permanently and forever into eternity obligated to fulfill the law without Jesus? Because I cant. I KNOW this. Only He has fulfilled the law. So is His fulfillment of that law available now to fulfill it for me or did I commit a legal transaction that nullified my ever being allowed to have Jesus as the propitiation of my sins?

 

[Brother Mike]

I came across this forum In Search of help. I think I may be one who fell from grace. After years of believing in Jesus alone for my salvation and walking a weak walk, I walked away from God into deliberate sin for 4 years. At the end of that time I realized how much I missed a close relationship with God so I decided to turn back seek forgiveness and move forward. 2 years later I was in church and during the altar call I asked myself how I could have sinned so much against Jesus knowing what He had done in the cross for me. I decided that I hadn't truly and fully accepted jesus and told God I needed to make Jesus my master and be obedient to be saved, not just accept Jesus as my savior. My world turned upside down after this decision. I have not had peace since. Now 2 years since that event and I struggle to have faith. Not in the sufficiency of Jesus blood, but in whether I am ever to have its application for my sins again or if it is still covering them and I just can't see it. I have read Galatians 5, Hebrews 6 and many other scrioture that now screams condemnation to my heart. I swear if it was done against God in the bible...I did it all. So now the question is that if I fell from grace is it available to me still? Am I now permanently and forever into eternity obligated to fulfill the law without Jesus? Because I cant. I KNOW this. Only He has fulfilled the law. So is His fulfillment of that law available now to fulfill it for me or did I commit a legal transaction that nullified my ever being allowed to have Jesus as the propitiation of my sins?

Gal 5:4 kjv+ Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The Only Way Christ (The anointing, the Anointed One) Can be missing from you life is if "YOU" decided, make a conscience effort and choice to Please God and do the Plan of God for your life through works of the flesh (Law)

If your not trying to keep the law to do the plan of God and please God, then you have not fallen from Grace.

Now if you have done stupid and sinful things that condemned your own heart. That is not God's fault, that is your fault.

It's also not God's fault if you wallow in past sin and mess ups and only read scriptures that warn not to do the things you have done.

There are tons of scriptures that tell you everything is OK, the warning scriptures are there to let us know that staying in a bad condition does not end well for disobeying God.

Now you ask How could you sin so much? A weak spirit who gets starved of the Word of God will allow the flesh to take over. Without constant feeding on the Word and time with God, everyone will eventually start doing things they did not want to do.

Stop starving yourself, Walk in the spirit and you won't fill all those flesh things.

Now faith was counted to Abraham unto Righteousnessd, and without faith it's impossible to please God. (Heb 11:6)

So, If God said He is faithful and just to forgive your sins, and clean you from all unrighteousness, then there is no reason to even consider things are not OK if you repented and turned back the other way.

It's not about how you feel, it's not about the junk you did to your own heart, it's not about emotion. Faith considers none of these things but only what God said.

So now focus your faith on One Thing, if He said He is faithful to forgive you, then it's good enough.

Also stop reading scriptures you don't fully understand.

Understand this one.

1Jn 1:9 kjv+ If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Jas 3:17 kjv+ But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Anything from God would be pure, peaceful, gentle, full of Mercy.

If you have feelings that are not these things, they are not from God, from your own brain and Mr. Devil.

It should be a dead give away that the devil is just messing with you, trying to keep you in bondage, and if you read the Word and just believed it, then you would know these things and not feel the way you do.

What I did as a young believer who messed up a lot.

I had one scripture I read over and over and over.

Phi 1:6 kjv+ Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Being confident of this very thing........ Something to keep confidence in. Any work started in you, depsite your goofy ways, God will still Work in you and help you forever, until Jesus shows up.

That means the Lord never gives up on you. We get twisted thinking and listen to the devil, that is what hinders us.

 

[Karl]

Beloved tonia, I would like to encourage you with this, ...you are here, you are searching, God loves you, He is crazy, madly in love with you, so much so you were on His mind when He was hanging on the Cross, that was about a 1980 years ago, He knew all of your sins before you were born and He paid for each and every one of them that day, you are forgiven, in fact you are exonerated, just as if you had never sinned. It's the enemy of your soul that is accusing you, that is the meaning of the name satan, the accuser, he's whispering in your mind these lies.

Ponder on this verse, memorize it, appropriate it into your soul,

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. Jas 3:17

Do you see that, the wisdom that comes from God gives us peace, you don't have peace dear one, so that can only mean what you think the verses you mentioned mean are not the way the Holy Spirit intended them to be interpreted.

Second if a person has been given over by God to a reprobate mind they are not interested in God, salvation, Jesus, anything to do with God,

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:28

But you are interested in having a personal. intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus, just like the prodigal son you have returned to the Father, that is proof positive you DO NOT have a reprobate mind, ...here, let's read the end of that story,

And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants. And he arose, and came to his father.

Isn't that what you have done dear one, ...returned to the Father?

But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him.

That is how Father feels about you, that's why Jesus told the story, for people like you and me that feel so unworthy, ...Jesus said you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free, ...the enemy of your soul is robbing you of this wisdom by whispering lies into your mind, twisting Scripture, just like he did with Eve, just like he did with Jesus , just like he has done with me and just like he is doing with you beloved!

Remember what James said, wisdom from the Holy Spirit gives us peace, is gentle, merciful, without hypocrisy (Father didn't once love you and now He doesn't, that would be hypocrisy) ...you are being lied to and don't let any of his lying ministers tell you different. 2 Cor 11:13, 14, 15

And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.Luke 15:17-24

Father has clothed you with His righteousness, you are sealed with and by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption and you have shoes on your feet (slaves went barefoot), and Jesus wants to make merry with you, remember He said, any who hear Me knock at the door (of their heart) and let Me in, I will eat with them and them with Me.

Do you want Jesus to eat with you? Then take Communion, right now, go get some bread, a cracker, a cookie, whatever, pour yourself something to drink, even if it's water and remember what He has done for you, ...reflect on the fact He paid for all of your sins on the Cross, ...even the ones you haven't committed yet, but you will, ...Jesus said, eat of my Body and drink of my Blood, today's church has limited us to a crumb and a sip, but Jesus didn't set that limit, so if you eat a handful of bread and a cup or two of water, rejoice, ...cuz He's keeping His promise, He's eating with you, ...His prized possession.

Be blessed dear one, Jesus is madly in love with you no matter what you think.

 

[Karl]

Beloved, Brother Mike and I were typing at the same time, ...I think Father is telling you how much He loves you and you are His child!

Far out brother, same verses, Praise you Jesus!

 

[Brother Mike]

Beloved, Brother Mike and I were typing at the same time, ...I think Father is telling you how much He loves you and you are His child!

Far out brother, same verses, Praise you Jesus!

Good Points Karl. I know it's not God, if Fear is invovled. I know it's not God if I am not at peace. We have to focus on what God said, not by what we feel, see, or have been told. The Word is spirit and life, it's not discerned by physical feelings and how we feel inside has nothing to do with God performing His Word.

We walk by faith, and not of the natural things which are temporal, but we walk by what is eternal.

The devil can twist so many scriptures, and say, See!!! See!!! You done it now, you crossed the line buddy and that's it for you.

Even God gave them over to a reprobate mind.................... The devil will say, See, See, God made their minds no longer want to serve him, God gave up on them, See...

NO, No and no. They had the reprobate mind to start with and did not want to retain God in thier knowledge. God just gave up on them because they choose not to keep God in their thinking.
If you not going to give God the time of day, He can't help you anyway.

They can still repent, once they get their head straightened out, and start looking at God again.

Drunks, and fornicators shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. The devil will say see, you slept with that person, and no Kingdom of God for you.... It's over.

NO, NO, and No. Kingdom just means to rule with or rule in the power of God and his will. Kingdom in Greek is not even a place. While doing those things you won't operate in the rule and power of God.......

Stop doing those things!!!! You will be fine.

Paul goes on to say, then Walk after the Spirit, and you won't fill the lust of the flesh.

Gal 5:18 kjv+ But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So if your not taking part in the Kingdom of God, get focused back on God and the Word and get your flesh in control again.

Thank God His Mercy endures forever, and if anyone has tried to find out if that Mercy runs out, It would be me. Still have not even seen the end of God's mercy, though I have tried hard.

Blessings.

 

[Tony Hyman]

I believe "repentance" and the type of "repentance" which is acceptable in God's view, is a major factor.We see a false repentance by Saul I Sam 15:30 "I have sinned . But please honour me before the elders of my people..." He is more concerned about his "image" in front of others, with no real remorse towards God. This is measured against the true repentance of David "I have sinned against the Lord" 2 Sam 12 :13 and is really sorry, regardless of the ramifications that follow ie accepts punishment.
It is possible for any Christian to return to God's grace ,with the exception of " whoever blasphemes the Holy Spirit..." Mk 3:29 , to always return no matter what, in terms of Luke 15:18b (Godly sorrow) and accepting consequences of the sin Luke 15:19.So yes! It is always possible for a Christian, no matter what ,to return depending on the form of repentance.Not "bought repentance" as some religions would have it.

 

[Rick W]

If this is true, how can a Christian fall from "Grace"? What is "Grace"?

Maybe look at the righteousness of God.
Is His righteousness not absolute, perfect and changeless? The righteousness we perceive for ourselves is imperfect. We see ourselves with a righteousness that is flawed in some way. Something needs adjusted, worked on, to gain salvation, or to hold on to it. Therefore it's His righteousness that saves, not ours. If we are accounted as righteous, saved from sin, by God's standard of perfection then what is so imperfect as not to be eternal that we lose the saving righteousness of God?
Is God sovereign over our salvation or not? Or are we co-saviors with Christ?


The righteousness of God is without sin... present, past or future. Is our salvation based upon God's righteousness or not? If so then we are accounted a sinless righteousness, not an imperfect one. An imperfect righteousness is another righteousness apart from God's standard of righteousness. Therefore an imperfect righteousness is not from God and a false righteousness can be lost.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I came across this forum In Search of help. I think I may be one who fell from grace. After years of believing in Jesus alone for my salvation and walking a weak walk, I walked away from God into deliberate sin for 4 years. At the end of that time I realized how much I missed a close relationship with God so I decided to turn back seek forgiveness and move forward. 2 years later I was in church and during the altar call I asked myself how I could have sinned so much against Jesus knowing what He had done in the cross for me. I decided that I hadn't truly and fully accepted jesus and told God I needed to make Jesus my master and be obedient to be saved, not just accept Jesus as my savior. My world turned upside down after this decision. I have not had peace since. Now 2 years since that event and I struggle to have faith. Not in the sufficiency of Jesus blood, but in whether I am ever to have its application for my sins again or if it is still covering them and I just can't see it. I have read Galatians 5, Hebrews 6 and many other scrioture that now screams condemnation to my heart. I swear if it was done against God in the bible...I did it all. So now the question is that if I fell from grace is it available to me still? Am I now permanently and forever into eternity obligated to fulfill the law without Jesus? Because I cant. I KNOW this. Only He has fulfilled the law. So is His fulfillment of that law available now to fulfill it for me or did I commit a legal transaction that nullified my ever being allowed to have Jesus as the propitiation of my sins?

,
Hello Tonia,
Oh Do I ever have good news for YOU. Throw out ALL and I do mean ALL your worries and cares about this.
Romans 8:31 Nothing can separate us from the Love of God....Count on this....
Now then all those fears and concerns are simply our enemy the devil trying to get you into fear and thinking that all is lost and you messed up to much and every other lie he can try to get you to believe and act on.

All you need to do is simply "repent" of your sins which means go to our Heavenly Father and tell him that you repent of your ways and tell Him you give Him your life and you are not going to do things your way and ask Him to forgive you of your sins and tresspass's.
1John1:9 if we are faithful to confess our sins and tresspass's to Him He is just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

So then receive your forgiveness and cleansing of all your unrighteousness and begin to live like it and think like it and act like it. Whats left after He cleanses you of all your Unrighteousness ? RIGHTEOUSNESS AND THAT IS YOU.
2Corinthians5:21 explains this.......

Now then you mentioned how all hell broke loose right after.....again this is NOTHING MORE then our enemy the devil trying to bluff you into thinkiing that you are not saved or good enough or messed up way to bad. It is his goal to hound you with this so he can keep you from growing in Christ and being the person God see's you as and to stop you from fulfilling God's plan for your life. Believe me, it is simply his (devil) way in trying to get you back into sin.

If you study Mark 4 The Parable of the sower and Luke 8 (the 2 best explanations)
In this you will learn about the different types of ground or HEARTS that the word is sown into. Now then when you read and study the explanation that Jesus Gives you will find the answers to these heart conditions. My point is for you to realise the main ways satan comes at you. Watch for afliction and persecution and cares of riches and lust for other things. All these come for the word's sake. To steel the word.

It's pressure and cares and worries and such. This is normal and you have the victory over this all ready. Study His written word and renew yourmind with His word so much that it gets down into your heart. Then you will be walking in the spirit and not the flesh or another words more able to rise above the devils lies.

I can go on and on about this but you need to know you are not left out or pushed away or not good enough.
All those are lies the devil wants you to bite on. Faith and Trust are important in your life always but right now you need to build both. All this pressure and crap will pass.....Study and find out who you are in Christ Jesus.

Rememeber you are not ever alone.
Have a blessed week end
Jim

 

[tonia]

Gal 5:4 kjv+ Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

The Only Way Christ (The anointing, the Anointed One) Can be missing from you life is if "YOU" decided, make a conscience effort and choice to Please God and do the Plan of God for your life through works of the flesh (Law)

If your not trying to keep the law to do the plan of God and please God, then you have not fallen from Grace.

Now if you have done stupid and sinful things that condemned your own heart. That is not God's fault, that is your fault.

It's also not God's fault if you wallow in past sin and mess ups and only read scriptures that warn not to do the things you have done.

There are tons of scriptures that tell you everything is OK, the warning scriptures are there to let us know that staying in a bad condition does not end well for disobeying God.

Now you ask How could you sin so much? A weak spirit who gets starved of the Word of God will allow the flesh to take over. Without constant feeding on the Word and time with God, everyone will eventually start doing things they did not want to do.

Stop starving yourself, Walk in the spirit and you won't fill all those flesh things.

Now faith was counted to Abraham unto Righteousnessd, and without faith it's impossible to please God. (Heb 11:6)

So, If God said He is faithful and just to forgive your sins, and clean you from all unrighteousness, then there is no reason to even consider things are not OK if you repented and turned back the other way.

It's not about how you feel, it's not about the junk you did to your own heart, it's not about emotion. Faith considers none of these things but only what God said.

So now focus your faith on One Thing, if He said He is faithful to forgive you, then it's good enough.

Also stop reading scriptures you don't fully understand.

Understand this one.

1Jn 1:9 kjv+ If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Jas 3:17 kjv+ But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.

Anything from God would be pure, peaceful, gentle, full of Mercy.

If you have feelings that are not these things, they are not from God, from your own brain and Mr. Devil.

It should be a dead give away that the devil is just messing with you, trying to keep you in bondage, and if you read the Word and just believed it, then you would know these things and not feel the way you do.

What I did as a young believer who messed up a lot.

I had one scripture I read over and over and over.

Phi 1:6 kjv+ Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Being confident of this very thing........ Something to keep confidence in. Any work started in you, depsite your goofy ways, God will still Work in you and help you forever, until Jesus shows up.

That means the Lord never gives up on you. We get twisted thinking and listen to the devil, that is what hinders us.

Brother Mike,

That's just it, by telling God, in my heart, that I had not truly accepted Him previously, even though I had, and that I needed to be obedient (follow the rules) in order to truly be saved, wasn't this demonstrating trying to live by the law in order to be saved. I am starting to think this is why I can only see and hear the lies of the devil.

I agree with you that I am the reason I am in this predicament. I chose out of foolishness to believe a lie but I was clearly wrong. I'm not arguing that It was Gid who abandoned me. I fear out of foolishness I chose to abandon Him.

The question is now that I may have made this stupid decision to follow after law to be saved and now see that I was wrong and insulting. Can I be forgiven of this? Or have I now removed myself from Grace with no hope of return? (The inpardonable sin of insulting the Holy Spirit)

I agree with everyone that it is a lie to believe that any sin will not be covered by grace. That day I wondered how I could do such things while knowing Jesus.....I should have simply replied to God because I am a sinner and that He please forgive me and thank Him for continuing to be my savior. Instead I scrambled to offer up obedience to Him in exchange for "making" me saved.

So here I sit. My awful decision to try to add to Jesus work on the cross. Can I be forgiven of doing this? It seems Paul is saying "if you're gonna make that bed, you're gonna have to lie in it with no hope of getting out." Im laying in it and desperately want out.

Sometimes I think....Jesus salvation is available to all who believe in Him. So if I have corrected my thinking and realized that obedience is not a requirement for salvation, then I did not truly bind myself to the law, I simply got off track temporarily and salvation was never lost to me, only hidden from me while I thought this way. If this is the case and Paul is saying that Christ is of no effect while you believe you have to be obedient, then perhaps all is not lost to me? Or is Paul is saying Christ is of no effect while you believe you have to keep the law and if you continue that belief until you die, then you will have proven that you never trusted in Jesus.

Do you see what I am saying? Is it a singular act of displacing Jesus for law or is it a continual act of doing so until death that makes Jesus of no effect? Just like faith. Is faith a one time act of believing and trusting in Jesus or is it a continual act until death? We all have a point where we have set faith into motion in our lives by trusting in Jesus for salvation. Could the same be said of unbelief? Could I have set the unbelief in motion by distrusting in Jesus alone for salvation? If I have, can that unbelief be turned into faith again by trusting Jesus again? Or is the offer on the table only once and if you fail to hold onto It, you fall away and there is no way to grasp it again?

To be clear....I blame God none for my actions, nor do I believe He abandoned me. I made all the choices, He allowed me because He will never force His will. He loves us, He is not some horrible puppet master. I'm just hoping that now that I seem to have abandoned Him, I didn't enact a spiritual law that says His way for salvation has been officially rejected and because of my choice it is now no longer available to me. I chose unwisely, game over.

Sorry for the repetitive statements. I have a hard time articulating what I mean so I restated it different ways to try to make clear my questions and position of mind/heart.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

tonia

That's just it, by telling God, in my heart, that I had not truly accepted Him previously, even though I had, and that I needed to be obedient (follow the rules) in order to truly be saved, wasn't this demonstrating trying to live by the law in order to be saved. I am starting to think this is why I can only see and hear the lies of the devil.

NO


The question is now that I may have made this stupid decision to follow after law to be saved and now see that I was wrong and insulting. Can I be forgiven of this? Or have I now removed myself from Grace with no hope of return? (The inpardonable sin of insulting the Holy Spirit)

YOU are confusing yourself here. YOU can not remove your self from Grace. Paul was saying you traded grace for the law. Why do you feel you have gone by the law ? Nothing you said says that you have. Relax. You have not done any inpardonable anythng.

So here I sit. My awful decision to try to add to Jesus work on the cross. Can I be forgiven of doing this? It seems Paul is saying "if you're gonna make that bed, you're gonna have to lie in it with no hope of getting out." Im laying in it and desperately want out.

Again you are just confusing your self and need to relax. Faith is what you need. You are running on Fear and Doubt. So you missed it...big deal, get back up and go at it again.....

Stop and take a breath. You are going to drive your self crazy listening to all these lies in your thinking.
If you got born again then all your sins were forgiven and remembered no more. Now if you stumble and miss it or get off track.....No BIG DEAL......Grace....because of Jesus.....simply pick your selkf up and move forward. Repent as I said before and get back in Faith.....You have NOT done anyting that can take what I am saying away.

In your frame of mind you are not disecting these scriptures correctly. Relax......
You are Blessed
Jim

 

[tonia]

All you need to do is simply "repent" of your sins which means go to our Heavenly Father and tell him that you repent of your ways and tell Him you give Him your life and you are not going to do things your way and ask Him to forgive you of your sins and tresspass's.
1John1:9 if we are faithful to confess our sins and tresspass's to Him He is just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

tonia

That's just it, by telling God, in my heart, that I had not truly accepted Him previously, even though I had, and that I needed to be obedient (follow the rules) in order to truly be saved, wasn't this demonstrating trying to live by the law in order to be saved. I am starting to think this is why I can only see and hear the lies of the devil.

NO


The question is now that I may have made this stupid decision to follow after law to be saved and now see that I was wrong and insulting. Can I be forgiven of this? Or have I now removed myself from Grace with no hope of return? (The inpardonable sin of insulting the Holy Spirit)

YOU are confusing yourself here. YOU can not remove your self from Grace. Paul was saying you traded grace for the law. Why do you feel you have gone by the law ? Nothing you said says that you have. Relax. You have not done any inpardonable anythng.

So here I sit. My awful decision to try to add to Jesus work on the cross. Can I be forgiven of doing this? It seems Paul is saying "if you're gonna make that bed, you're gonna have to lie in it with no hope of getting out." Im laying in it and desperately want out.

Again you are just confusing your self and need to relax. Faith is what you need. You are running on Fear and Doubt. So you missed it...big deal, get back up and go at it again.....

Stop and take a breath. You are going to drive your self crazy listening to all these lies in your thinking.
If you got born again then all your sins were forgiven and remembered no more. Now if you stumble and miss it or get off track.....No BIG DEAL......Grace....because of Jesus.....simply pick your selkf up and move forward. Repent as I said before and get back in Faith.....You have NOT done anyting that can take what I am saying away.

In your frame of mind you are not disecting these scriptures correctly. Relax......
You are Blessed
Jim

Jim,

You are so kind and hopeful. Thank you for your reply.

You're correct, I am driving myself crazy with this thinking.

I think I traded grace for law by saying I needed to be obedient to Gods laws in order to have salvation. I know now that we should desire to obey Gods laws out of love for Him because He has saved us. We are not to obey Gods laws in order to be saved. I fear I did the latter.

To add some context for you, this was my circumstance at that time. I was having health concerns and scared I may have had a serious illness. Drs were in process of doing tests and such. I had such anxiety and instead of resting in Jesus, I began looking at my life. i was lukewarm in my walk and began fearing that my sinful actions throughout my life were proof that I did not love God or maybe wasn't even saved. I wanted to be sure. So that day at church, during the altar call, I told God I hadn't truly accepted Jesus because of my disobedience. So I asked Him into my heart (again) and promised to be obedient to the law in order to be saved.

So doesn't this mean I had Gods grace and set it aside for the law? I was trying to earn my way I to Heaven instead of just trusting Jesus? In fact isn't that what k doing this very moment? Trying to do something for Gods approval? Faith seems so far and unattainable to me right now. It's just past my finger tips and j don't know how to get away from me long enough to grasp Jesus again.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

All you need to do is simply "repent" of your sins which means go to our Heavenly Father and tell him that you repent of your ways and tell Him you give Him your life and you are not going to do things your way and ask Him to forgive you of your sins and tresspass's.
1John1:9 if we are faithful to confess our sins and tresspass's to Him He is just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

No



Jim,

You are so kind and hopeful. Thank you for your reply.

You're correct, I am driving myself crazy with this thinking.

I think I traded grace for law by saying I needed to be obedient to Gods laws in order to have salvation. I know now that we should desire to obey Gods laws out of love for Him because He has saved us. We are not to obey Gods laws in order to be saved. I fear I did the latter.

To add some context for you, this was my circumstance at that time. I was having health concerns and scared I may have had a serious illness. Drs were in process of doing tests and such. I had such anxiety and instead of resting in Jesus, I began looking at my life. i was lukewarm in my walk and began fearing that my sinful actions throughout my life were proof that I did not love God or maybe wasn't even saved. I wanted to be sure. So that day at church, during the altar call, I told God I hadn't truly accepted Jesus because of my disobedience. So I asked Him into my heart (again) and promised to be obedient to the law in order to be saved.

So doesn't this mean I had Gods grace and set it aside for the law? I was trying to earn my way I to Heaven instead of just trusting Jesus? In fact isn't that what k doing this very moment? Trying to do something for Gods approval? Faith seems so far and unattainable to me right now. It's just past my finger tips and j don't know how to get away from me long enough to grasp Jesus again.

Tonia Hello,
First of all again I say relax because it really is ok. If anything you just began to doubt things and in some fear as well wanted to make sure that you were indeed saved. The devil loves to play that game with past sins. The sad part about it is, once those sins are forgiven, well God does not remember them any more and they only exist in the mind of the devil and ours if we let them. So we torment our selves with the devils help trying to reason things and questioning everything.

Here is the deal, if you go to the alter every time you are in Church to rededicate your life to Christ or to make sure you are born again, well it really is ok. Now with the second part being the case, there will HAVE to come a time when you learn to walk by faith and except what He has said in His word.

Now about the Galation 5 part of this. It is so simle once you see it. Paul had preached with these people and told them about Christ and they excepted Christ and so were born again but on his return trip paul found them once again back in their old ways of doing things. This is why Paul said you are trading Grace for the law. That is what is meant by fall away in this passage. The people were simply returning to the old way and this is simply because THIS JESUS GOSPEL PAUL PREACHED WAS NEW IN THE LAND, and they were having trouble grasping it.
All they new was how bad they were, from the law and Paul teaches how blessed they are because of Jesus and thisbeing a new thing took them a few times to grasp it.

You are safe so again relax and trust God and His word. Tell the devil he is a liar and cast him out and take captive what you think. If it does not line up with the word then it is rubbish....in this case since GTalatians 5 was tripping you up Thanks to the devil, all you needed to do was go back and read in John and places saying how your sins WERE FORGIVEN and the devil is a liar....

The best thing for you is to simply move forward now. The truth shall set you free so be free and enjoy the day that God has given you. You are truly blessed and loved and on the right path.
Have a wonderful day Tonia
Jim

 

[Brother Mike]

Brother Mike,

That's just it, by telling God, in my heart, that I had not truly accepted Him previously, even though I had, and that I needed to be obedient (follow the rules) in order to truly be saved, wasn't this demonstrating trying to live by the law in order to be saved. I am starting to think this is why I can only see and hear the lies of the devil.

I agree with you that I am the reason I am in this predicament. I chose out of foolishness to believe a lie but I was clearly wrong. I'm not arguing that It was Gid who abandoned me. I fear out of foolishness I chose to abandon Him.

The question is now that I may have made this stupid decision to follow after law to be saved and now see that I was wrong and insulting. Can I be forgiven of this? Or have I now removed myself from Grace with no hope of return? (The inpardonable sin of insulting the Holy Spirit)

I agree with everyone that it is a lie to believe that any sin will not be covered by grace. That day I wondered how I could do such things while knowing Jesus.....I should have simply replied to God because I am a sinner and that He please forgive me and thank Him for continuing to be my savior. Instead I scrambled to offer up obedience to Him in exchange for "making" me saved.

So here I sit. My awful decision to try to add to Jesus work on the cross. Can I be forgiven of doing this? It seems Paul is saying "if you're gonna make that bed, you're gonna have to lie in it with no hope of getting out." Im laying in it and desperately want out.

Sometimes I think....Jesus salvation is available to all who believe in Him. So if I have corrected my thinking and realized that obedience is not a requirement for salvation, then I did not truly bind myself to the law, I simply got off track temporarily and salvation was never lost to me, only hidden from me while I thought this way. If this is the case and Paul is saying that Christ is of no effect while you believe you have to be obedient, then perhaps all is not lost to me? Or is Paul is saying Christ is of no effect while you believe you have to keep the law and if you continue that belief until you die, then you will have proven that you never trusted in Jesus.

Do you see what I am saying? Is it a singular act of displacing Jesus for law or is it a continual act of doing so until death that makes Jesus of no effect? Just like faith. Is faith a one time act of believing and trusting in Jesus or is it a continual act until death? We all have a point where we have set faith into motion in our lives by trusting in Jesus for salvation. Could the same be said of unbelief? Could I have set the unbelief in motion by distrusting in Jesus alone for salvation? If I have, can that unbelief be turned into faith again by trusting Jesus again? Or is the offer on the table only once and if you fail to hold onto It, you fall away and there is no way to grasp it again?

To be clear....I blame God none for my actions, nor do I believe He abandoned me. I made all the choices, He allowed me because He will never force His will. He loves us, He is not some horrible puppet master. I'm just hoping that now that I seem to have abandoned Him, I didn't enact a spiritual law that says His way for salvation has been officially rejected and because of my choice it is now no longer available to me. I chose unwisely, game over.

Sorry for the repetitive statements. I have a hard time articulating what I mean so I restated it different ways to try to make clear my questions and position of mind/heart.

You read this carefully. The Lord has some questions for you and wants you to answer these.

Who choose who first. Did you choose me first, or have I choosen you. Did I not say that if you would just draw Near me, then I will draw closer to you?

Have I not fearfully and wonderfully made you for my purpose? Did I not say the thoughts I think about you are good thoughts, thoughts of peace, to bless you greatly in the end, to use you for my purpose.

Who are you to say I abandoned you, and what Knowledge that you gained that was so great that you were capable to make choices that I would forever hold you accountable for?

For all my callings and gifts are without repentence, and what I choose is not based on your works of evil or good, but that I have choosen. Do I abandon my own plans, or give up on the thing I made to prosper?

Did I not say works are paid back out of debt, but Things obtained through faith because of my grace are freely given. The younger son I said was given what was owed him and it was great, but waste ate it up and he found no blessing away from me. What Work did He do to obtain those things I gave to him when He came back to me? Even His older brother worked many years for me, and was always with me, but even his works and obedience did not obtain what he always desired though they were his when ever he wanted.

How hard is it to say I saved you, or that I am your Lord? What else did I require out of you? You say I am Lord, but say I left you. Is not a Lord or shepard able to keep his own? Do I not go looking to get back any stray sheep?

For many that have come to me, have strayed from me. Truly they would have walked back out into death had they not had a shepard However, I am the Good shepard, and do not consider what my sheep have done, but that I want them back.

 

[ezra]

I came across this forum In Search of help. I think I may be one who fell from grace. After years of believing in Jesus alone for my salvation and walking a weak walk, I walked away from God into deliberate sin for 4 years. At the end of that time I realized how much I missed a close relationship with God so I decided to turn back seek forgiveness and move forward. 2 years later I was in church and during the altar call I asked myself how I could have sinned so much against Jesus knowing what He had done in the cross for me. I decided that I hadn't truly and fully accepted jesus and told God I needed to make Jesus my master and be obedient to be saved, not just accept Jesus as my savior. My world turned upside down after this decision. I have not had peace since. Now 2 years since that event and I struggle to have faith. Not in the sufficiency of Jesus blood, but in whether I am ever to have its application for my sins again or if it is still covering them and I just can't see it. I have read Galatians 5, Hebrews 6 and many other scrioture that now screams condemnation to my heart. I swear if it was done against God in the bible...I did it all. So now the question is that if I fell from grace is it available to me still? Am I now permanently and forever into eternity obligated to fulfill the law without Jesus? Because I cant. I KNOW this. Only He has fulfilled the law. So is His fulfillment of that law available now to fulfill it for me or did I commit a legal transaction that nullified my ever being allowed to have Jesus as the propitiation of my sins?

stop beating your self up.its good to feel conviction if you turned back to God that proves you never fell from Grace 1 john 3
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. besides how can you fall from something that is given to you? your feeling condemnation from the devil.

 

[ezra]

All you need to do is simply "repent" of your sins which means go to our Heavenly Father and tell him that you repent of your ways and tell Him you give Him your life and you are not going to do things your way and ask Him to forgive you of your sins and tresspass's.
1John1:9 if we are faithful to confess our sins and tresspass's to Him He is just to forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.


Jim,

You are so kind and hopeful. Thank you for your reply.

You're correct, I am driving myself crazy with this thinking.

I think I traded grace for law by saying I needed to be obedient to Gods laws in order to have salvation. I know now that we should desire to obey Gods laws out of love for Him because He has saved us. We are not to obey Gods laws in order to be saved. I fear I did the latter.

To add some context for you, this was my circumstance at that time. I was having health concerns and scared I may have had a serious illness. Drs were in process of doing tests and such. I had such anxiety and instead of resting in Jesus, I began looking at my life. i was lukewarm in my walk and began fearing that my sinful actions throughout my life were proof that I did not love God or maybe wasn't even saved. I wanted to be sure. So that day at church, during the altar call, I told God I hadn't truly accepted Jesus because of my disobedience. So I asked Him into my heart (again) and promised to be obedient to the law in order to be saved.

So doesn't this mean I had Gods grace and set it aside for the law? I was trying to earn my way I to Heaven instead of just trusting Jesus? In fact isn't that what k doing this very moment? Trying to do something for Gods approval? Faith seems so far and unattainable to me right now. It's just past my finger tips and j don't know how to get away from me long enough to grasp Jesus again.

personally i dont think you reverted to law.. you was scared about the doctors report . i think we all try to do things better to win His approval when things go crazy. as stated early on james tells us to draw close to God and he will draw close to us.. we do this by asking.

:amen

 

[dianegcook]

Is it possible?
The prodigal son comes to mind.

Luke 15:11-24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found.

James 2:17,20
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
That faith without works is dead?

Matt.7:21
Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And also as I stated before, do you think that this atheist I know,( said he got saved years back) and has turned from the truth of God, is still under His grace?

His grace is always there, but you have to repent and turn back to Him.

 

[Brother Mike]

Is it possible?
The prodigal son comes to mind.

Luke 15:11-24
For this my son was dead, and is alive again, he was lost, and is found.

James 2:17,20
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
That faith without works is dead?

Matt.7:21
Not everyone that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

And also as I stated before, do you think that this atheist I know,( said he got saved years back) and has turned from the truth of God, is still under His grace?

His grace is always there, but you have to repent and turn back to Him.

Grace is just not connected to eternal life. There are level's of it.

What does Fall from grace mean though?

Grace means Gracious, Favor. Showing preference.

Even Jesus did not start out with "God's" full grace.

 

[dianegcook]

Grace is just not connected to eternal life. There are level's of it.

What does Fall from grace mean though?

Grace means Gracious, Favor. Showing preference.

Even Jesus did not start out with "God's" full grace.

You are correct, I should had said, His saving arms, are always there.
I was thinking upon the OSAS doctrine.

If you are not obeying Him, I would assume, He would be displeased , thus not in His favor.

 

[tonia]

I'm starting to grasp it. I think far too logically and deep into things. My intellect had been my own enemy and the Devils playground. "Lean not unto your own understanding" is a concept that is often difficult fir people like me. However, I AM beginning to see light breaking through the dark.
If I fell away.....I have not completely done so. If I had, I wouldn't be seeking to return and I certainly wouldn't see the truth of Jesus alone.
My motives for following Jesus have definitely been challenged greatly. This conviction is good and necessary. God can't build on anything but Jesus. That has to be sorted out and Jesus has to be the only reliance for faith and salvation. Anything else won't work. Not because God wants to punish us, but because it's just how it is. God is to receive all glory.
This being said, it makes so much more sense to leave salvation to Him. It takes the weight and responsibility of getting it right off my shoulders and allows me to relax and trust Jesus knowing that He has started a good work in me and will perfect it until the day kf Jesus Christ. This means God will allow slips and falls and derailments, but He will use whatever means necessary to bring me back to Him. That being said, if I come back and seek Him, even if my motives are incorrect, God will make those motives right. He will work out my salvation in my heart, He will supply my needs, He will change my heart.

I'm thankful for everyone in this forum who has ministered to me. I may be back again another day to rehash this discussion if I get my eyes off Jesus....just keep reminding me and I will try and so the same for all of you. We need to be reminded often of the cross and Gods love and sacrufice for us. For that to have meaning and reach us deeply takes and act of the Holy Spirit who leads us into all truth.