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Is it wrong to kiss icons?

LanaPodesta

LanaPodesta

Member
Icons are pictorial representations of Biblical scenes from the life of Jesus Christ, historical events in the life of the Church, and portraits of the Saints. They are usually two-dimensional images that can be made of paint, mosaic, embroidery, carving, engraving, or other methods.
 
As long as the person does not equate that with actual worship it should be ok. It is not unlike the Jewish practice of kissing the Torah scroll or the mezzuza on the doorposts.
 

Is religious iconography considered idolatry?​


Answer

Broadly speaking, religious iconography is the artistic depiction of religious figures, often using symbolism. In Christianity, iconography features subjects such as Christ, Mary, or the saints. An icon is an image, usually painted on wood, that is to be venerated as a sacred object. Icons can also be engravings, mosaics, or embroideries. Although people who use icons in their worship would deny that they are practicing idolatry, it is difficult to see how “venerating” an object as “sacred” is different from idolatry.

Although Catholics also venerate religious images, iconography is most often associated with the Eastern or Orthodox Church, which teaches that the use of icons during prayer helps the worshiper know God, be united with the holy saints, and develop the fruit of the Spirit. When an Orthodox Christian enters his church, he lights a candle, makes the sign of the cross, and then kisses the icons of Christ, the Theotokos (Mary), and the saints. The church sanctuary will contain many other “Holy Icons,” as they’re called. Orthodox Christians are to have icons at home, too, and the place where the icons are kept is where family prayers are offered. Icons are seen as an illustration of the Incarnation of Christ, who left His spiritual abode to dwell in a material world. The devout also believe that an icon is a window into heaven, and their veneration passes straight to heaven, where it is received by the person depicted in the icon. Some claim that icons have facilitated miracles.

John Calvin and the other Protestant Reformers were iconoclasts; that is, they demanded the removal of icons from churches and homes. According to the Reformers, the veneration of icons and other religious artifacts was idolatry, and they were right. Any kissing of, bowing down before, or praying toward an icon is certainly idolatrous. Members of the Orthodox Church insist that they are not worshiping the paint and wood, but they admit that they give veneration, adoration, and reverence to the saints and Mary depicted in the icons. They pray to men and women; they ascribe to the icons a spiritual power that it does not possess. This is unbiblical.

There is nothing wrong with producing or enjoying religious art, per se. Viewing a painting of a biblical scene in an art gallery and admiring the artist’s technique cannot be considered idolatry. Having a picture of Jesus or of angels in one’s home may not be idolatry, either. Iconography can be studied as an art form, and icons can be viewed as fascinating examples of historical religious art. But using icons to aid one’s worship or viewing them as a “window to heaven” is definitely idolatry.

The Bible strictly forbids idolatry (Leviticus 26:1; Deuteronomy 5:9). God alone deserves to be bowed down to and worshiped. Icons are not intercessors before the throne of grace, and neither are the saints they represent. People in heaven do not have the power to hear our prayers or grant our requests. Only Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit can intercede for us before the Father (Romans 8:26–27, 34). We should stay as far away as we can from anything that could possibly lead to idolatry.
Gotquestions.org
 
electedbyHim said:
They pray to men and women; they ascribe to the icons a spiritual power that it does not possess. This is unbiblical.
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The claim that icon veneration is "unbiblical" ignores that many core Christian doctrines upheld by the Reformers, such as the Trinity and the canon of scripture itself, are rooted in Church tradition, not explicitly detailed in the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity, for instance, is a product of centuries of theological reflection by the early Church, formalized in the Nicene Creed—something the Reformers accepted without question. Similarly, the very determination of which books belong in the Bible was decided by the Church councils, which the Reformers trusted. Rejecting icons as "unbiblical" while relying on these Church-established doctrines is inconsistent and reveals a selective approach to tradition.

1. **The Tradition of the Church**
The Orthodox Church has practiced the veneration of icons since the earliest centuries, affirmed by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. Icons are not worshipped but honoured as representations of holy figures, through whom believers unite with the saints and Christ. Rejecting this tradition overlooks centuries of Church teaching and practice.

2. **Theological Foundations in Scripture**
Scripture does not forbid sacred images; in fact, God commanded the creation of images like the cherubim and bronze serpent for holy purposes. The Incarnation of Christ itself affirms the sanctification of the material world, making the veneration of icons a logical extension of honoring Christ. To deny icons is to deny the significance of the Incarnation.

3. **The Difference Between Veneration and Worship**
Orthodox Christians venerate, not worship, icons, distinguishing between latria (worship) reserved for God and dulia (veneration) for saints and icons. The Reformers conflated these two actions, leading to a misunderstanding of Orthodox practices. Veneration honors the person depicted, not the material object.

4. **Intercession of the Saints and the Role of Icons**
The Orthodox Church believes that saints in heaven can intercede for us, as shown in scripture (Revelation 5:8). Icons remind us of this communion of saints, serving as windows to heaven, but they do not contain grace themselves. This understanding is biblical and not idolatrous.

5. **The Role of Tradition and the Authority of the Church**
The Orthodox Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, holds the authority to interpret scripture and Tradition. The Reformers' interpretation of the Bible rejected the Church’s authority, leading to a limited understanding of the faith. The Church’s unbroken Tradition upholds the veneration of icons as part of the apostolic faith.
 
LanaPodesta said:
The claim that icon veneration is "unbiblical" ignores that many core Christian doctrines upheld by the Reformers, such as the Trinity and the canon of scripture itself, are rooted in Church tradition, not explicitly detailed in the Bible. The doctrine of the Trinity, for instance, is a product of centuries of theological reflection by the early Church, formalized in the Nicene Creed—something the Reformers accepted without question. Similarly, the very determination of which books belong in the Bible was decided by the Church councils, which the Reformers trusted. Rejecting icons as "unbiblical" while relying on these Church-established doctrines is inconsistent and reveals a selective approach to tradition.

1. **The Tradition of the Church**
The Orthodox Church has practiced the veneration of icons since the earliest centuries, affirmed by the Seventh Ecumenical Council. Icons are not worshipped but honoured as representations of holy figures, through whom believers unite with the saints and Christ. Rejecting this tradition overlooks centuries of Church teaching and practice.

2. **Theological Foundations in Scripture**
Scripture does not forbid sacred images; in fact, God commanded the creation of images like the cherubim and bronze serpent for holy purposes. The Incarnation of Christ itself affirms the sanctification of the material world, making the veneration of icons a logical extension of honoring Christ. To deny icons is to deny the significance of the Incarnation.

3. **The Difference Between Veneration and Worship**
Orthodox Christians venerate, not worship, icons, distinguishing between latria (worship) reserved for God and dulia (veneration) for saints and icons. The Reformers conflated these two actions, leading to a misunderstanding of Orthodox practices. Veneration honors the person depicted, not the material object.

4. **Intercession of the Saints and the Role of Icons**
The Orthodox Church believes that saints in heaven can intercede for us, as shown in scripture (Revelation 5:8). Icons remind us of this communion of saints, serving as windows to heaven, but they do not contain grace themselves. This understanding is biblical and not idolatrous.

5. **The Role of Tradition and the Authority of the Church**
The Orthodox Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, holds the authority to interpret scripture and Tradition. The Reformers' interpretation of the Bible rejected the Church’s authority, leading to a limited understanding of the faith. The Church’s unbroken Tradition upholds the veneration of icons as part of the apostolic faith.
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You are free to worship and kiss idols and follow the manmade traditions of men.

Too each his own.

I will stick with Bilical Christianity and the Reformers.

Growing up in he Catholic church, they tried to indoctrinate me with all that garbage.

I have had Catholics tell me to come back to "mother church".

It truly is sad.

Grace and peace to you.
 
electedbyHim said:
You are free to worship and kiss idols and follow the manmade traditions of men.

Too each his own.

I will stick with Bilical Christianity and the Reformers.

Growing up in he Catholic church, they tried to indoctrinate me with all that garbage.

I have had Catholics tell me to come back to "mother church".

It truly is sad.

Grace and peace to you.
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Uh huh. One question. Do you believe in the Trinity?
 
electedbyHim said:
You answer a question with a question.

There are many threads on the Trinity on this forum, you can go there to learn.

Do you believe in the Biblical Trinity?

Better yet, are you a child of God?
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Biblical? The doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly spelled out in the Bible. Nowhere does scripture use the term "Trinity" or present a systematic explanation of God as three persons in one essence. Instead, the doctrine was articulated and clarified by the early Church through councils such as Nicaea (325 AD) and Constantinople (381 AD), guided by the Holy Spirit.
 
LanaPodesta said:
Biblical? The doctrine of the Trinity is not explicitly spelled out in the Bible. Nowhere does scripture use the term "Trinity" or present a systematic explanation of God as three persons in one essence. Instead, the doctrine was articulated and clarified by the early Church through councils such as Nicaea (325 AD) and Constantinople (381 AD), guided by the Holy Spirit.
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It is clear you do not understand the Bible.

The Trinity is taught in the Old and New Testaments.

This conversation is one sided as you will not answer questions.

So I will leave you with your belief in tradition over Scripture.

There is no point in this discussion and is fruitless.

Grace and peace to you.
 
electedbyHim said:
It is clear you do not understand the Bible.

The Trinity is taught in the Old and New Testaments.

This conversation is one sided as you will not answer questions.

So I will leave you with your belief in tradition over Scripture.

There is no point in this discussion and is fruitless.

Grace and peace to you.
Click to expand...
The term "Trinity" is never used in Scripture, and the Bible itself does not offer a comprehensive theological explanation of God as three persons in one essence.
 
LanaPodesta said:
Icons are pictorial representations of Biblical scenes from the life of Jesus Christ, historical events in the life of the Church, and portraits of the Saints. They are usually two-dimensional images that can be made of paint, mosaic, embroidery, carving, engraving, or other methods.
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This is from The Council of TrentThe Twenty-Fifth Session



Moreover, that the images of Christ, of the Virgin Mother of God, and of the other saints, are to be had and retained particularly in temples, and that due honour and veneration are to be given them; not that any divinity, or virtue, is believed to be in them, on account of which they are to be worshipped; or that anything is to be asked of them; or, that trust is to be reposed in images, as was of old done by the Gentiles who placed their hope in idols; but because the honour which is shown them is referred to the prototypes which those images represent; in such wise that by the images which we kiss, and before which we uncover the head, and prostrate ourselves, we adore Christ; and we venerate the saints, whose similitude they bear: as, by the decrees of Councils, and especially of the second Synod of Nicaea, has been defined against the opponents of images.


Prostrating one self before images is idolatry.
 
LanaPodesta said:
Icons are pictorial representations of Biblical scenes from the life of Jesus Christ, historical events in the life of the Church, and portraits of the Saints. They are usually two-dimensional images that can be made of paint, mosaic, embroidery, carving, engraving, or other methods.
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Kissing anything is wrong.
If it is only a 2 dimensional representation of someone or thing, what is the use of kissing it ?
 
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LanaPodesta said:
nothing in the quoted text from the Council of Trent supports the claim that prostrating oneself before an image constitutes idolatry. In fact, the text explicitly denies such a charge.
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The council of Trent encourages the prostrating of oneself before images of Mary and saints.


The scriptures forbids such idolatry.


“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. Exodus 20:4-5
 
LanaPodesta said:
Icons are pictorial representations of Biblical scenes from the life of Jesus Christ, historical events in the life of the Church, and portraits of the Saints. They are usually two-dimensional images that can be made of paint, mosaic, embroidery, carving, engraving, or other methods.
Click to expand...
But what’s the point? We are told to “greet one another with a holy kiss” and “with the kiss of love.” Never is there anything about kissing an object. Why do you think that we are told to kiss people and never objects?
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Kissing anything is wrong.
If it is only a 2 dimensional representation of someone or thing, what is the use of kissing it ?
Click to expand...
Venerating icons, including through kissing, is not about the material object itself but about honoring the person or event it represents. Icons are understood as "windows to heaven," serving to connect the faithful with the spiritual reality they depict, much like showing respect to a photograph of a loved one. This practice is grounded in the Incarnation of Christ, affirming that physical matter can be a vehicle of divine grace.
 
JLB said:
The council of Trent encourages the prostrating of oneself before images of Mary and saints.


The scriptures forbids such idolatry.


“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. Exodus 20:4-5
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Why are you quoting from the Council of Trent if you think it's wrong to venerate icons?

The veneration shown to images, such as icons of Mary and the saints, is not idolatry because it is not worship of the image itself but honor directed toward the person depicted. The prohibition in Exodus 20:4-5 is against creating and worshiping idols as gods, not against the use of sacred images as a means of glorifying God and His saints. Furthermore, the Incarnation of Christ, where God took on visible, material form, sanctifies the use of matter in worship, allowing icons to serve as a means to focus the faithful on heavenly realities, not as objects of worship in themselves.
 
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