Is it wrong to kiss icons?

[JLB]

Why are you quoting from the Council of Trent if you think it's wrong to venerate icons?

Because I’m wanting to expose the ungodly practices they are promoting.

 

[LanaPodesta]

Because I’m wanting to expose the ungodly practices they are promoting.

LMAO. Who decides that it's 'ungodly'?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Then why is it wrong?

It is wrong, because a sense of idolatry is foisted onto the object of...love.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Venerating icons, including through kissing, is not about the material object itself but about honoring the person or event it represents. Icons are understood as "windows to heaven," serving to connect the faithful with the spiritual reality they depict, much like showing respect to a photograph of a loved one. This practice is grounded in the Incarnation of Christ, affirming that physical matter can be a vehicle of divine grace.

Icons are idols.
Can you throw your "icon" in the dumpster out back, without feelings of having committed sacrilege ?

 

[LanaPodesta]

It is wrong, because a sense of idolatry is foisted onto the object of...love.

How is it 'idolatry'

 

[LanaPodesta]

Icons are idols.
Can you throw your "icon" in the dumpster out back, without feelings of having committed sacrilege ?

How so?

No.

 

[for_his_glory]

When material things, especially man made and designed religious icons, become our idols that we bow down to, then that becomes idol worshiping that comes against God's commandments. No one knows what Jesus actually looked like nor even the same with Mary.


Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[Hopeful 2]

How is it 'idolatry'

Your are bestowing on the icon love and worship.
Would you act the same way with your car, or with your front-door knob ?

 

[Hopeful 2]

How so?

No.

You answered your own question.
Idolaters have endued a holiness and reverence to stone and wood...and pictures.
If one cannot toss something in the dumpster, it is an idol.
It is written..."... thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Rom 2:22)

 

[LanaPodesta]

When material things, especially man made and designed religious icons, become our idols that we bow down to, then that becomes idol worshiping

How many times do I have to repeat this? We aren't worshipping the objects, they're assisting our veneration of the subject represented

 

[LanaPodesta]

You answered your own question.
Idolaters have endued a holiness and reverence to stone and wood...and pictures.
If one cannot toss something in the dumpster, it is an idol.
It is written..."... thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?" (Rom 2:22)

Would you wipe your backside with scripture if it was the only paper available to you?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Would you wipe your backside with scripture if it was the only paper available to you?

Yes, as it is just paper.

 

[Hopeful 2]

How many times do I have to repeat this? We aren't worshipping the objects, they're assisting our veneration of the subject represented

Why do you need help for that ?
Here are the synonyms of 'veneration'...(from Oxford Languages)
reverence, respect, worship, adoration, homage, exaltation, adulation, glorification, extolment, idolization, devotion, honor, esteem, regard, high regard, praise, respectfulness, worshipfulness, obeisance, submission, deference, awe, laudation, magnification.

Why would you "venerate" dead men ?

 

[for_his_glory]

The term "Trinity" is never used in Scripture, and the Bible itself does not offer a comprehensive theological explanation of God as three persons in one essence.

Hi LanaPodesta we can not derail from that which this thread is about by discussing the Trinity being another topic. If you would like to start a new thread on this topic and add me to it as I would love to discuss this with you.

 

[for_his_glory]

Venerating icons, including through kissing, is not about the material object itself but about honoring the person or event it represents. Icons are understood as "windows to heaven," serving to connect the faithful with the spiritual reality they depict, much like showing respect to a photograph of a loved one. This practice is grounded in the Incarnation of Christ, affirming that physical matter can be a vehicle of divine grace.

The thing is that no one knows what Jesus looked like, so why bow down to depictions of material objects and worship them depictions. We bow down to God in Spirit and truth, John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Icons are pictorial representations of Biblical scenes from the life of Jesus Christ, historical events in the life of the Church, and portraits of the Saints. They are usually two-dimensional images that can be made of paint, mosaic, embroidery, carving, engraving, or other methods.

I would think it would be okay IF the worshiper does not at all replace the Triune God with reverence for what or whom the icon represents. That is a distinct danger, of course.

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Hi LanaPodesta we can not derail from that which this thread is about by discussing the Trinity being another topic. If you would like to start a new thread on this topic and add me to it as I would love to discuss this with you.

I'm not derailing this thread by mentioning the Triune God. Icons must never replace that true God, which is my point.

 

[for_his_glory]

How is it 'idolatry'

Because it comes against the commandments of God.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

 

[JLB]

LMAO. Who decides that it's 'ungodly'?

Ungodly refers to a practice that is against what God commands us to do.

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. Exodus 20:4-5


But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

 

[LanaPodesta]

Why do you need help for that ?
Here are the synonyms of 'veneration'...(from Oxford Languages)
reverence, respect, worship, adoration, homage, exaltation, adulation, glorification, extolment, idolization, devotion, honor, esteem, regard, high regard, praise, respectfulness, worshipfulness, obeisance, submission, deference, awe, laudation, magnification.

Why would you "venerate" dead men ?

By that logic when you worship Christ do you 'idolize' him?

We venerate saints not as mere "dead men" but as those who are alive in Christ. Jesus Himself teaches us that God is "not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to Him" (Luke 20:38). Saints are those who, having completed their earthly pilgrimage in holiness, now live eternally in the presence of God. They are our spiritual family, members of the Body of Christ, united with us through prayer and the grace of the Holy Spirit.

The veneration of saints is not worship, which is due to God alone, but honor and reverence for their example of faith and virtue. In the same way that we might admire and learn from righteous people during their earthly lives, we honor saints as models of Christ-like living and as intercessors who pray for us before God's throne (Revelation 5:8; 8:3-4). This practice is supported by the Apostolic Tradition and the continuous life of the Church.

Moreover, through the Incarnation, Christ has sanctified human nature, making it possible for human beings to participate in His divine life. Saints are living witnesses to this transformation, showing us that holiness is not only possible but our ultimate calling. Venerating them is a way of glorifying God, who is "wonderful in His saints" (Psalm 68:35 LXX).

Thus, when we venerate saints, we affirm our faith in the resurrection, the communion of saints, and the ongoing life and presence of the Church both on earth and in heaven. It is not about death but the triumph of life in Christ.