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Is Jesus God Almighty, Everlasting Father?

Is Jesus God Almighty, Everlasting Father?

  • Yes, Jesus is God Almighty, the Everlasting Father.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No, Jesus is God Almighty, but not the Everlasting Father

    Votes: 9 100.0%
  • Total voters
    9
S

Solo

Guest
Who is Jesus really?

EDITED: This poll was initially written without a thorough review of my thoughts, and the answers are not viable to the question asked; therefore,
I will explain my intent.

Some individuals do not believe in the diety of Jesus Christ, and they label him only as the Son of God. Jesus is the Word of God and existed eternally as God prior to his human birth. Prior to the birth of Jesus Christ to Mary there was no Son of God, there was the Word of God, and was there a Father God prior to the Son of God; No. In Genesis we see that God created the heavens and the earth and we notice in scripture that Jesus created all things as the Word; therefore God is the creator, he is one God in three separate persons, the Word, God, and the Spirit.

In Isaiah 9:6 we see that Jesus is called The mighty God and The everlasting Father. The name everlasting Father is prophesied prior to the only begotten Son of God being born, even though the Word of God is eternal.

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Some that understand God as one God in three persons, as I do, have a difficult time understanding the oneness of God in three persons. My stand is that the Bible speaks of all three persons of the Godhead as equal identity of oneness, and Jesus is called everlasting Father and The mighty God in Isaiah, and he is the Word prior to becoming the Son.

The answer of the poll that states "No, Jesus is only the Son of God the Father. He is not God almighty." is misleading in that Jesus is God almighty whether someone believes he is the Father God or not.

The No answer should have been "No, Jesus is God Almighty, but not the Everlasting Father.
 
Jesus is the Messiah/Christ. The Christ is defined for us by YHWH through Isaiah the Prophet.

6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

If Jesus is not all that Isaiah said then he is not the Christ at all!

This verse includes all that Jesus is. He is both the Father and the Son.

After all he said " I and my Father are one".

That was said in fulfillment of Isaiah's prophecy.
 
That Christ is a 'part' of God is unquestionable. Christs' deity is unquestionable. "I and the Father are one" does NOT prove that Christ and God are inter-changible however.

There is MORE scripture that offers that Christ and God are NOT the 'same' than there is that could be interpreted as such.

The Bible uses the term 'Godhead' in its offering of their nature. EXACTLY what this is a description of we are NOT privilege to at the present time.

If one were to read the Book of Enoch, (not considered to be part of THE WORD by many), we once again 'see' that Christ and God, though together in heaven, are separate entities. This in NO way takes away ANYTHING from Christ or the scripture concerning Him and His deity. It just changes much of what many in the churches teach.

Christ certainly existed 'with' God before He was sent/came to earth in the Flesh.

And a little point that I have yet to see ANYONE expound upon. In the beginning DOES NOT indicate, in the beginning of 'time'. It simply points out the beginning of what we know of in regards to the world in which we live. We have absolutely NO idea if this is the ONLY world that has EVER existed or if this same situation or others similar have been produced over and over again. We simply don't know the answer to this PERIOD. With this in mind, we don't know that Christ has been with God 'forever' or not. We ONLY know that Christ existed before the creation of man and the world in which he lives.

By the above statement I do NOT claim that Christ HAS NOT always been with the Father, I simply offer that we have NO proof either way other than the creation that we KNOW of was performed 'after' Christ existed and by Christ.

Contrary to what most teach, Christ Himself NEVER plainly stated that He was GOD. Yes, He certainly made statements that He was a 'part' of God. But even Christ himself made statements that indicated that the Father was greater than He. He made statements indicating that He received His power from God and NOT Himself. He also prayed that God would 'strengthen' him and 'help' Him. And what about this one, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do"? He also cried out on the cross, asking the Father WHY He had abandoned Him. These statements from the Savior Himself indicate that there is a much more intricate relationship between Father and Son than simply 'they are the same'.

Christ statement that, "I and the Father are one" could quite possibly be little different that we being able to say "Christ and I are one". For if Christ abide in you, then you too are the 'sons of God' and a part of the body eternal. But, us being a 'part' of Christ, does NOT make US CHRIST. Even in Revelation, the vision that John describes has Christ and God as separate in heaven.

I personally believe that the story of Abraham and his son were a prelude to God sending His Son as a sacrifice. For God so loved the world..............
It seems to parallel the exact scenario except that Abraham was spared the actual sacrifice. He was willing though and it was this obedience that was considered love/faith/obedience to God. And didn't God offer man EXACTLY what he had once required of Abraham? Didn't God sacrifice His Son so that we would no longer be bound to death through sin? Wouldn't God's Son be as dear to Him as our sons and daughters are to us? More so, considering that God IS love. So, in this respect, was Jesus God Himself? Or was Jesus The Son of God who God sent to us for our Salvation. Did God die for us? Or did His Son die for us? I know how you guys feel about this issue and will therefore leave the question up to you and what your hearts 'tell you'. For God ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. This is true for man too. God knows this, man, through his weaknesses does NOT KNOW IT. If God can do ANYTHING then He could have just as easily destroyed sin without the death of His Son. But, he sent His Son as an example that WE ARE TO EMULATE. If it were NOT possible to emulate Christ, then God did us a GREAT injustice. We are certainly INCAPABLE of emulating God. So, did God die on the cross, or was it His Son? Of what possible example could it serve for God to go to the cross. God can't die. But His Son, in the flesh, DID DIE. And did Christ resurrect HIMSELF? Or was He brought forth from the tomb by His Father? And exactly where is Christ NOW?

A little something to ponder for those that believe and teach that Father and Son are the SAME.
 
Solo said:
Who is Jesus really?

EDITED: This poll was initially written without a thorough review of my thoughts, and the answers are not viable to the question asked; therefore,
I will explain my intent.

Some individuals do not believe in the diety of Jesus Christ, and they label him only as the Son of God. Jesus is the Word of God and existed eternally as God prior to his human birth. Prior to the birth of Jesus Christ to Mary there was no Son of God, there was the Word of God, and was there a Father God prior to the Son of God; No. In Genesis we see that God created the heavens and the earth and we notice in scripture that Jesus created all things as the Word; therefore God is the creator, he is one God in three separate persons, the Word, God, and the Spirit.

In Isaiah 9:6 we see that Jesus is called The mighty God and The everlasting Father. The name everlasting Father is prophesied prior to the only begotten Son of God being born, even though the Word of God is eternal.

6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6

Some that understand God as one God in three persons, as I do, have a difficult time understanding the oneness of God in three persons. My stand is that the Bible speaks of all three persons of the Godhead as equal identity of oneness, and Jesus is called everlasting Father and The mighty God in Isaiah, and he is the Word prior to becoming the Son.

The answer of the poll that states "No, Jesus is only the Son of God the Father. He is not God almighty." is misleading in that Jesus is God almighty whether someone believes he is the Father God or not.

The No answer should have been "No, Jesus is God Almighty, but not the Everlasting Father.
Click to expand...

So when Jesus said; "For God so loved the world that He sent His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life, " He was lying? :o If so, then why doesn't the bible replace the name "Jesus" with God? :o

Also when Jesus said; "No one knows the hour, not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." Who is the Son here? :o Why doesn't he have the same knowledge as the Father if the 2 are on equal footing? :o Another lie?

Is Jesus also lying when he said; "For the Father is greater than I?" Boy, for being God, many people must think that Jesus is a liar. I don't. I believe Him.
 
I might add that God didn't have to go into the wilderness to overcome Satan. God is already more powerful than Satan! Apparently many people here don't think so. :sad

If Jesus didn't have human qualities, then how could he have ever suffered pain for us? Does God have to ask Himself questions like Jesus asked him? :o Or is He omniscient?

Also Jesus said not to call anyone on earth Father because we have one Father and He is in heaven. He also told us not to call anyone on earth teacher because we have one teacher and that is the Christ. Who is the Christ and why do we need him if Jesus is the Father? :o
 
The Holy Spirit is also from God just as Jesus is. So when the Holy Spirit enters me, does that make me God? :o Of course not. As Jesus tells us in John 14:20, that when we receive the Holy Spirit, "On that day, you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me, and I am in you." That makes us united in God, as Jesus says in John 17:20, "I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you." This is precisely what Jesus means when he says; "I and the Father are one."

Therefore, God is composed of 3 different aspects: God the Father who is supreme, God the Son, who is the way to the Father, and God the Holy Spirit who is our Counselro. They are ll from God but in separate and distinct forms. But only God alone is supreme and, as Jesus says, God alone is good.
 
In addition, how could anyone have been pure enough to see God without Christ's atonement for their sins? But if He alone was God, then apparently he didn't need to sacrifice himself for our sins before people saw God.

Also, David said; "And the Lord said to my Lord:..." That sums it up perfectly. The Father and Son are 2 distinct manifestations of God as David clarifies for us. :)
 
And one more thing: Why doesn't Jesus ask us to pray to Jesus Christ our art in heaven instead of our Father our art in heaven in Christ's name, if Jesus is the Father? :o But he doesn't. :)
 
^^ actually Jesus said to pray in His name. But also in the father's name also.


(I actually miss read the poll and voted for the wrong one)

Anywho. Jesus and God are one, but they are both different.

Nice posts Heidi!
 
Hi Solo,

Im sorry that I misunderstood your position. But I stick to what I have stated.

You said:

The No answer should have been "No, Jesus is God Almighty, but not the Everlasting Father.

If Jesus is God Almighty but not the Eternal Father how can there not be more than one God?

10: Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? Mal. 2:10

The Prophet said we have ONE Father. If Christ is the Eternal Father that makes one Father. Just like Malachi said.

One God has created us said the Prophet. If Jesus is the Mighty God that makes ONE GOD.

If there are OTHERS who are equally God then the doctrine of one God is destroyed.
 
The trinity is next to impossible to explain, like trying to explain John 1:1 and John 1:14. How can we know it since nothing of this world even comes close? Do we worship Christ or God? And if the two are separate then are we guilty of worshiping multiple gods?
Mormons, Jehovah witnesses and many others deny Christ's diety. The JWs even go so far as to add "a God" in John 1:1 in their bibles even though there's no basis for the addition in the original language to read as:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the "Word was a God."

instead of what is written:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the "Word was God."

A "sonship" is the closest we can come in this world. Nothing else is closer for us to understand the relationship.
 
The trinity is a beautifull thing. It show the unity of God and Christ and how God's Spirit can be incarnated in the flesh. There are so many things inherent in that incarnation. It shows the connection between God and man and gives us that connection which is the precise reason God sent His son to die for us. It now makes God's Spirit accessible to all people. God shows us his charcater through Jesus Christ our Lord, without whom God would be unrecognizable.

But I love Christ's humility. He showed nothing but reverence for our Father which is the example he wants us to follow. He never claimed to be God almighty. "He who exalts himself will be humbled and he who humbles himself will be exalted." And because the Son glorified the Father, the Father glorified the Son. :angel:
 
Heidi said:

He never claimed to be God almighty.

Me:

Actually he was keeping it a secret.

27: All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Matt. 11:27

To those he chose to reveal it to it went something like this:

7: If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8: Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:7-9

Paul said in his writings this was the mystery or "hidden truth" of Godliness.

16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim. 3:16

Trinitarianism fails to see what is written.

Not God the Son was manifest in flesh. Not a "second person of God" manifest in flesh.

It simply says "GOD" was manifest in flesh.

The only thing to understand at that point is how many Gods exist in this universe?
 
The only thing to understand at that point is how many Gods exist in this universe?
Click to expand...
One, one, one, or 1x1x1=1. Trinitarians do not believe nor teach polytheism. PotLuck said it best: "The trinity is next to impossible to explain,". Oh, it's there in Scripture alright, we recongize it but it's beyond our comprehension. It's like gravity; we know it exists; we see it's effects all day and night, but we can't quite explain it.


Oh, I voted #2.
 
Vic said:

Trinitarians do not believe nor teach polytheism.

Me:

I dont believe that most Trinitarians are trying to promote more than one God. However the doctrine really forces it upon them.

Three separate, co equal, co eternal persons each being God.

If there is only one God and Jesus is God thats it.

Either he is God-The Father or he is not God at all. God IS the Father.

Have we not all ONE FATHER? Hath not ONE GOD created us? Mal. 2:10
 
Michael A Disciple said:
Either he is God-The Father or he is not God at all. God IS the Father.
Click to expand...
God is also the Son and the Holy Spirit. Jesus is God, the Son. Using your logic, Jesus must declare He is His own Father... and He prays to Himself... and He speaks to Himself from Heaven... and He talks to Himself while on Earth... :o

I think this part of a post from OC in a different thread says a lot about this...

Manifestaion is an unacceptable description of the three persons of God because it intimates that God the Father died on the cross- or at minimum, a manifestation of God the Father.
Click to expand...

Then there's this overused (and misunderstood) verse...

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

It isn't saying, the Father is the Father and I am the Father also. Look at the verse in context. It is surrounded by Jesus saying "My Father" this or "My Father" that... even "the Father". The verse suggests that the Father and Jesus (the Son) are the same: GOD.

John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
 
John 1:1 explains it all.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jesus is the Word. He is both w/ God, and is God.
 
Vic said:

Manifestaion is an unacceptable description of the three persons of God because it intimates that God the Father died on the cross- or at minimum, a manifestation of God the Father.

Me:

Did a manifestation of God die on the cross?

16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was MANIFEST in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim. 3:16

Trinitarians assume mistakenly that "God" means someone other than the one God. Yet Paul simply said GOD was manifest in flesh. That was the Son of God. God in the flesh.

It is easier to understand God manifesting himself in different ways than it is to accept the existence of more than one being who is God.

You said:

Jesus is God, the Son.

Me:

Ok if he is God the Son we know for sure scripture also says he is the Everlasting Father.

So then he is both God the Everlasting Father and God the Son.

Both the Father and the Son.

To the rest I will address (Lord willing) when I return from work. Which I hope will be 8 hours from now but to often of late it is 16.5.
 
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