T
thessalonian
Guest
All interested in this thread please vote in my nature of God poll.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Michael A Disciple
Guest
Hey all,
I got stuck last night with another 16.5 hour day. Now all I have time to do is eat and go to work again! I am greatly desiring to get to some of the comments I see. Hope to get back on track soon.
I got stuck last night with another 16.5 hour day. Now all I have time to do is eat and go to work again! I am greatly desiring to get to some of the comments I see. Hope to get back on track soon.
Vic C.
Member
Thanks for replying.Thessalonian said:
I agree with that, along with most of what you said.
Speaking of the Orthodox, I hope he doesn't mind me quoting him then:
Orthodox Christian said:
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
:-D
T
thessalonian
Guest
Acts 2
[33] Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, HE has poured out this which you see and hear.
The son has been given all that the Holy Spirit has. The Holy Spirit proceeds from the father. He is poured out or sent, in a word, proceeds from the son. A procession from the Father does not rule out procession from the son. :-D If I send my son to tell his brothers to stop wresting downstairs, do the words that come from me proceed any less from him? Does it proceed any less from me? This makes alot of sense if you think about the Biblical way in which Christ is presented and why the Holy Spirit was not generally given until he was crucified.
So tell me Thess, to filioque or not to filioque? Where was the unity of the Holy "Catholic" Apostolic Church? Which side was ignoring which verse? You should be careful pointing out the speck in another's eye when you have a plank in your own.Thessalonian said::
Ah the trinity debate. Round and round we go. Everyone playing exegist and scholar. Everyone says the other is ignoring verses. Protestant unity at it's best. By what authority I ask?
R
reznwerks
Guest
TRinity
Wow four pages of posts on the trinity. Sure sounds like Christian unity to me. Since God wasn't clear on the issue or he failed to write the book so all could understand and agree on it equally here are some links to the history of the trinity idea.
http://www.thunderministries.com/histor ... icont.html
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/trinity.html
http://www.christadelphia.org/trinityhistory.htm
Wow four pages of posts on the trinity. Sure sounds like Christian unity to me. Since God wasn't clear on the issue or he failed to write the book so all could understand and agree on it equally here are some links to the history of the trinity idea.
http://www.thunderministries.com/histor ... icont.html
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/greywlf/trinity.html
http://www.christadelphia.org/trinityhistory.htm
K
Klee shay
Guest
Why is it so impossible to accept them as being in eternal unity but as separate beings? Are they not one in the Father without having to be him?
When we label them one being we call the very nature of God a lie. He was the one who declared Jesus to be his Son and Jesus his Son spoke of the "Comforter" (Holy Spirit) that would come after he was ascended to the right hand side of his Father.
These are the testimonies of the nature of God. Either you believe them or you don't. It seems it would be in the enemy's interests to defy the terminolgy God used and change the nature of their meaning into something else.
It may be for the Son of God to say they are as one, and for the Comforter to testify, if it bear true witness of the Son - but mankind was given the understanding of Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. If it was important for the nature of God to express himself in this way - why do we search for another meaning? All the Apostles beared witness that Jesus was the "Son" of God and honoured him in his role, ministry and purpose - to do the will of His "Father".
When we pursue the nature of God without respecting the order he testified of, we will NOT find the true nature of God.
When we label them one being we call the very nature of God a lie. He was the one who declared Jesus to be his Son and Jesus his Son spoke of the "Comforter" (Holy Spirit) that would come after he was ascended to the right hand side of his Father.
These are the testimonies of the nature of God. Either you believe them or you don't. It seems it would be in the enemy's interests to defy the terminolgy God used and change the nature of their meaning into something else.
It may be for the Son of God to say they are as one, and for the Comforter to testify, if it bear true witness of the Son - but mankind was given the understanding of Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. If it was important for the nature of God to express himself in this way - why do we search for another meaning? All the Apostles beared witness that Jesus was the "Son" of God and honoured him in his role, ministry and purpose - to do the will of His "Father".
When we pursue the nature of God without respecting the order he testified of, we will NOT find the true nature of God.
:
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
Vic said:
" Using your logic, Jesus must declare He is His own Father... and He prays to Himself... and He speaks to Himself from Heaven... and He talks to Himself while on Earth..."
Jesus said:
13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13
Here Jesus tells Nicodemus that he was LIVING IN HEAVEN at the same time he was standing there on Earth. Who was he in Heaven?
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
The one God was existing in Heaven as YHWH himself. And at the very same time part of him (the Word) became FLESH and dwelled among men.
So there was one God and one man.
5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Tim. 2:5
Not 3 divine beings.
That part of him that existed as man was subject to that part that was God. The Father was greater than the Son. The Son (man) prayed to the Father and did his will.
When Jesus says My Father is greater than I that is the context. The omnipresent Spirit is greater than the man.
If God were 3 co equal persons how could one be greater than the other? If God were three co eternal persons how could one be before the other? As in Father and Son? A Father is always before his son.
When Jesus prayed it was as a MAN. Else you would have the obvious polytheism of one God praying to another! And if he were praying as one person of the Godhead to another we would have the strange fact that one who is fully God still needs to pray about something.
Now having said that there is also another part of the truth.
Is Jesus his own Father?
For the answer see my next post.
Who Is The Father Of Jesus?
" Using your logic, Jesus must declare He is His own Father... and He prays to Himself... and He speaks to Himself from Heaven... and He talks to Himself while on Earth..."
Jesus said:
13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13
Here Jesus tells Nicodemus that he was LIVING IN HEAVEN at the same time he was standing there on Earth. Who was he in Heaven?
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
The one God was existing in Heaven as YHWH himself. And at the very same time part of him (the Word) became FLESH and dwelled among men.
So there was one God and one man.
5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Tim. 2:5
Not 3 divine beings.
That part of him that existed as man was subject to that part that was God. The Father was greater than the Son. The Son (man) prayed to the Father and did his will.
When Jesus says My Father is greater than I that is the context. The omnipresent Spirit is greater than the man.
If God were 3 co equal persons how could one be greater than the other? If God were three co eternal persons how could one be before the other? As in Father and Son? A Father is always before his son.
When Jesus prayed it was as a MAN. Else you would have the obvious polytheism of one God praying to another! And if he were praying as one person of the Godhead to another we would have the strange fact that one who is fully God still needs to pray about something.
Now having said that there is also another part of the truth.
Is Jesus his own Father?
For the answer see my next post.
Who Is The Father Of Jesus?
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
All who desire understanding,
It seems to me all opposition to our message whether it comes from Trinitarians or Twinitarians is based on this false premise, that we deny Yeshua has a Father.
Once again for the benefit of those who havent heard, here is the glorious, altogether marvellous truth of who is THE FATHER OF YESHUA.
The God of Abraham, and The God of Issac, and of Jacob, The God of our fathers, hath glorified HIS SON JESUS, whom ye delivered up and denied him in the presence Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13
Here he is friends. The Father of Yeshua. We should all be able to see he has a father and who he is.
THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, AND JACOB.
Now just who is this ONE GOD who is THE FATHER OF YASHUA?
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Exodus 3:13-15
The God who is The GOD OF ABRAHAM and of Issac and of Jacob
said his name is I AM THAT I AM.
Apostle Peter said he is the Father of Yeshua. We have no excuse to not believe it.
Now let us ask WHO IS YESHUA?
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet 50 years old and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, Verily I say unto, Before Abraham was I AM. John 8:57-58
The Father of Yeshua is I AM
Yeshua himself is I AM
Yes Yeshua has a Father! But does the bible also say the Son is the Father?
For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The Mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah prophesied that we would call the Son THE EVERLASTING FATHER. This we do and rejoice in it!
Face it friends. Either there are TWO I AM'S or Yeshua is his own Father!
With the apostle Paul I bow my knees TO THE FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. Peace, mike
It seems to me all opposition to our message whether it comes from Trinitarians or Twinitarians is based on this false premise, that we deny Yeshua has a Father.
Once again for the benefit of those who havent heard, here is the glorious, altogether marvellous truth of who is THE FATHER OF YESHUA.
The God of Abraham, and The God of Issac, and of Jacob, The God of our fathers, hath glorified HIS SON JESUS, whom ye delivered up and denied him in the presence Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13
Here he is friends. The Father of Yeshua. We should all be able to see he has a father and who he is.
THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, AND JACOB.
Now just who is this ONE GOD who is THE FATHER OF YASHUA?
And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?
14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. Exodus 3:13-15
The God who is The GOD OF ABRAHAM and of Issac and of Jacob
said his name is I AM THAT I AM.
Apostle Peter said he is the Father of Yeshua. We have no excuse to not believe it.
Now let us ask WHO IS YESHUA?
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet 50 years old and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, Verily I say unto, Before Abraham was I AM. John 8:57-58
The Father of Yeshua is I AM
Yeshua himself is I AM
Yes Yeshua has a Father! But does the bible also say the Son is the Father?
For unto us a child is born unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The Mighty God, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace. Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah prophesied that we would call the Son THE EVERLASTING FATHER. This we do and rejoice in it!
Face it friends. Either there are TWO I AM'S or Yeshua is his own Father!
With the apostle Paul I bow my knees TO THE FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. Peace, mike
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
Vic said:
Then there's this overused (and misunderstood) verse...
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Me:
Overused? The only time Trinitarians use it is when trying to prove Christ deity to the JW's. Any other time they either avoid it or are arguing against it.
After all ONLY Oneness teachers use this verse (properly) to show Jesus actually is the Father.
To another look at the context Vic. What was THE QUESTION the Pharisees asked Jesus?
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:24-25
Comment:
The Jews press Jesus to tell if he is the Christ. What were they expecting their Messiah to be? Isaiah prophesied of him like this:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6
They were looking for a man who would be all that this prophecy states.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Comment:
Jesus says he will give his sheep eternal life and no one will take them out of his hand. He follows by saying his Father is greater than all and none will take them out of HIS hand. Jesus seems to be hinting something here. Is he saying his hand and his Fathers hand are the same hand?
His next words to them:
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
Jesus speaks as if his hand was the same as the Fathers. Then he says I and my Father are one! If you had been there what would YOU have thought he meant?
Well the Jews upon hearing these words became enraged!
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Comment:
The connection of Jesus hand to the Fathers hand and then such a strong statement as him being one with the Father was more than they could stand. They reasoned he being a man makes himself God.
Remember the question these particular Jews asked Jesus? Tell us plainly if you are the Christ. Verse 24
Now Jesus was plainly answering them. The Christ was to be a man who was also called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The charge that he was a man making himself God comes directly from their understanding of who the Christ would be! Jesus was TELLING THEM PLAINLY!
I and my Father are one.
A faulty understanding of Isaiah 9:6 has led to much error.
Then there's this overused (and misunderstood) verse...
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Me:
Overused? The only time Trinitarians use it is when trying to prove Christ deity to the JW's. Any other time they either avoid it or are arguing against it.
After all ONLY Oneness teachers use this verse (properly) to show Jesus actually is the Father.
To another look at the context Vic. What was THE QUESTION the Pharisees asked Jesus?
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:24-25
Comment:
The Jews press Jesus to tell if he is the Christ. What were they expecting their Messiah to be? Isaiah prophesied of him like this:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6
They were looking for a man who would be all that this prophecy states.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Comment:
Jesus says he will give his sheep eternal life and no one will take them out of his hand. He follows by saying his Father is greater than all and none will take them out of HIS hand. Jesus seems to be hinting something here. Is he saying his hand and his Fathers hand are the same hand?
His next words to them:
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
Jesus speaks as if his hand was the same as the Fathers. Then he says I and my Father are one! If you had been there what would YOU have thought he meant?
Well the Jews upon hearing these words became enraged!
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Comment:
The connection of Jesus hand to the Fathers hand and then such a strong statement as him being one with the Father was more than they could stand. They reasoned he being a man makes himself God.
Remember the question these particular Jews asked Jesus? Tell us plainly if you are the Christ. Verse 24
Now Jesus was plainly answering them. The Christ was to be a man who was also called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The charge that he was a man making himself God comes directly from their understanding of who the Christ would be! Jesus was TELLING THEM PLAINLY!
I and my Father are one.
A faulty understanding of Isaiah 9:6 has led to much error.
Vic C.
Member
Or the third... He is both Son and I AM. I posted a rebuttal a couple of times concerning that verse. It says He will be called... not He is.
Plus, "I and the Father are one" isn't proof that He is the (His) Father. My Father and I both share the name Vic. Jesus and His Father share a name too... LORD.
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
Vic said:
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
I guess I'm the minority here. Mostly everyone wants to read that verse with preconceived ideas instead of taking it for what it says.
Oh well, I will bow out because as long as we are "stuck" on this verse, we will get nowhere.
Me:
Preconceived idea? As I read that verse it seems to be PLAINLY saying what it does say. It is Trinitarians and Arians who want to look at it and trY to change it. The Trinitarian does not agree with "Everlasting Father". The Arian rejects that along with "Mighty God".
Personally, I read it just as it stands and believe.
Am I "stuck" on it? Certainly! Why? Because it is what it is. A prophecy telling us the identity of the Messiah! It is FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH. So it isn't going away. And it isn't going to change. If one does not understand that prophetic foundation, when he gets over into the New Testament he will always be cofused over the doctrine of one God.
Jesus says "Iand my Father are one" because that is the nature of the Messiah. A son born who is called the Everlasting Father! Praise his name forever!
Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
I guess I'm the minority here. Mostly everyone wants to read that verse with preconceived ideas instead of taking it for what it says.
Oh well, I will bow out because as long as we are "stuck" on this verse, we will get nowhere.
Me:
Preconceived idea? As I read that verse it seems to be PLAINLY saying what it does say. It is Trinitarians and Arians who want to look at it and trY to change it. The Trinitarian does not agree with "Everlasting Father". The Arian rejects that along with "Mighty God".
Personally, I read it just as it stands and believe.
Am I "stuck" on it? Certainly! Why? Because it is what it is. A prophecy telling us the identity of the Messiah! It is FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH. So it isn't going away. And it isn't going to change. If one does not understand that prophetic foundation, when he gets over into the New Testament he will always be cofused over the doctrine of one God.
Jesus says "Iand my Father are one" because that is the nature of the Messiah. A son born who is called the Everlasting Father! Praise his name forever!
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
Vic said:
It says He will be called... not He is.
Me:
Will you be consistent?
35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Like 1:35
According to the angel Jesus will be called......the son of God. So would you add to this-NOT HE IS.
If being CALLED the Son of God means he IS the Son of God, then being called Everlasting Father means he IS the Everlasting Father.
So Vic according to Acts 3:13 who is the Father of Jesus?
It says He will be called... not He is.
Me:
Will you be consistent?
35: And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Like 1:35
According to the angel Jesus will be called......the son of God. So would you add to this-NOT HE IS.
If being CALLED the Son of God means he IS the Son of God, then being called Everlasting Father means he IS the Everlasting Father.
So Vic according to Acts 3:13 who is the Father of Jesus?
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
I notice the poll is showing 7 people who believe what I believe. Three for what you all believe. Yet as far as I can tell I see maybe only 1 or 2 posts besides my own that MIGHT reflect this. Where are the rest of you?
M
Michael A Disciple
Guest
Klee Shay said:
When we label them one being we call the very nature of God a lie.
Me:
The God of the Old Testament was one.
4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Duet. 6:4
The word LORD is an English placeholder for the Hebrew name YHWH. It is actually the being YHWH that is one. Many times YHWH says he is God alone and there is none else.
He is not THEM as in Trinitarian concept. The doctrine that YHWH is one is a very foundational truth in scripture. Anything violating it departs from truth.
I think your comment sums up the difference between Oneness and Trinitarian theology. We believe in one being who is God. You all believe more than one being is God. Straight and to the point.
When we label them one being we call the very nature of God a lie.
Me:
The God of the Old Testament was one.
4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Duet. 6:4
The word LORD is an English placeholder for the Hebrew name YHWH. It is actually the being YHWH that is one. Many times YHWH says he is God alone and there is none else.
He is not THEM as in Trinitarian concept. The doctrine that YHWH is one is a very foundational truth in scripture. Anything violating it departs from truth.
I think your comment sums up the difference between Oneness and Trinitarian theology. We believe in one being who is God. You all believe more than one being is God. Straight and to the point.
O
Orthodox Christian
Guest
Oneness believes in a schizo being who talks to Himself from the sky in the second person (this is my beloved Son, listen to Him), and who asks Himself if He can be excused from His own will (Garden of Gethsemane).Michael A Disciple said:
The difference between that and Trinitarian theology is that we believe tht Jesus was actually speaking with someone who no one has ever seen, yet Jesus is so much the essence and substance of the Father that it is true when He tells Philip "you have seen me, you have seen the Father."
T
thessalonian
Guest
Free said:So tell me Thess, to filioque or not to filioque? Where was the unity of the Holy "Catholic" Apostolic Church? Which side was ignoring which verse? You should be careful pointing out the speck in another's eye when you have a plank in your own.Thessalonian said:
Ah the trinity debate. Round and round we go. Everyone playing exegist and scholar. Everyone says the other is ignoring verses. Protestant unity at it's best. By what authority I ask?
Well, let's see, the orthodox split off from the Catholic Church, rejecting the papacy, which the eastern Church had looked to to settle disputes for 1000 years. I don't think it is a difficult call. Sorry OC. As for the filoque, it is no problem saying that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father so those who want to say this and leave it at that are not a cause of division. Those who add to it, therefore he does not proceed from the son, cause division. Sorry once again OC. Having said that I find great harmony between OC and myself despite our few differences.
The fact of the matter is that after 1054 there were only 2 denominations and some come and go heretical sects. After 1515 divsision became the norm. 99+ percent of all denominations have their roots in the so called reformation.
K
Klee shay
Guest
Old Testament - yes. That generation had a tendency to harlot after other Gods, hence Deuteronomy 6:4 was a warning not to consider other Gods as God. Jesus was not born yet so of course God was one Lord to the people of that generation. Does that mean God hasn't the right to give birth to a Son that will be called Lord also?
He was speaking to a stiff-necked generation that would proceed the coming of His Son and provide the religious dogma to crucify him. In the Old Testament God spoke the truth - the LORD our God is one LORD.
This may be true in the Old Testament. What is the language used in the New Testament however? From my recollection, the prayers Jesus said to his father alone, he specifically called him Father not Lord? The Old Testament served it's purpose for the generation it was meant. In the New Testament we must follow the lead of God's son.
You mean anything, meaning the Son?
Consider these two scriptures. Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And... John 8:17-18 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
What we have here is the Old Testament pitted against the New Testament. Neither New or Old scripture is irrelevant but it must have it's priorities correct. Otherwise why did GOD choose to have his own nature divided into the Father, Son and Comforter?
Matthew 13: 51-52 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kindgom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
You can accuse me of bearing false witness to the truth of scripture for I am human and can bear false witness in spiritual immaturity. What is not false witness however is that God himself declared Jesus his Son and asked us to believe upon him. For in believing upon him we believe upon the one who sent him - God.
You either believe God's tesimony or you don't. There can only ever be one Lord - no Christian could ever discredit that scriptual fact. But it was God who testified of his Son before Christ even did, after he was baptised by John. Then the spirit descended from heaven like a dove and rested upon him - also testifying of Jesus. So with all that testifying happening, why do you still doubt he is the Son and not the Father?
Did God ask mankind to question his order and re-write it according to man's will? I am that I am...in other words; why question it. :wink: