Is Jesus really God ?

[Alabaster]

Yahweh is the word for the inutterable name of God. It is as close to the name He has given as possible.

Yeshua is the name of the Son that God commanded be His name. It means, 'salvation'.

Matthew 1:21 NLT
And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

 

[Free]

thanks you for your reply.

Really searching here....

If YHWH is also the name of God (Jesus in this instance), why is Yeshua used when he is on earth? Why not use Yahweh?

Sorry for the late response. That's a good question. Although Scripture doesn't directly say, I think we can say some things without going beyond Scripture.

First, it wouldn't have proved that God is triune. If the Jews understood YHWH as God then it would have blurred the lines between Father and Son.

Second, as I have argued in the discussion on Phil 2, one of the interpretations of Jesus not counting "equality with God a thing to be grasped," is that he did not want to use his divinity in any way that would compel men to worship him. While Jesus's divinity is central to salvation, it was through his death and resurrection that he wanted men to see him as being equal with God.

 

[Who Says]

Of my own self I am just a simple and not too intelligent man. If it were not for the HS I would in fact be completely stupid.

And if there is anything that turns my stomach it is foolish bickering for I see such as the fruit of degenerate minds. I usually therefore like to avoid discussing this subject as it has become the thing Christians who are supposed to be brothers argue about more than any other thing. But I just finished participation on the antichrist thread and while there I found that there is a surprising large number of persons hating their brothers and calling them antichrist for not believing that Jesus is God Incarnate. And that hating is just deplorable. There are not enough words to describe how deplorable that hating is.

As I said, I am a not too intelligent man. Therefore I know that there is other thinking Christians on here on this thread that understand this subject at least as well as I do.

I want to call all of you thinking brothers together to see a particular confusion that lay at the base of this subject and focus with me on eradicating that particular misconception. For the entire foundation of those who hate their brothers because their brothers do not see Jesus as God Incarnate rests on this one point about which they are confused.

This is absolutely true: God is the one source of all light.

Those that see Jesus as God Incarnate see Jesus as the source of all Light.

Those of us that see Jesus as God's Son see Jesus as the torch dipped in God's light and sent to us. And he is the torch of all torches. No torch gets its light except from him.

Is everybody with me so far?

 

[Eventide]

Of my own self I am just a simple and not too intelligent man. If it were not for the HS I would in fact be completely stupid.

And if there is anything that turns my stomach it is foolish bickering for I see such as the fruit of degenerate minds. I usually therefore like to avoid discussing this subject as it has become the thing Christians who are supposed to be brothers argue about more than any other thing. But I just finished participation on the antichrist thread and while there I found that there is a surprising large number of persons hating their brothers and calling them antichrist for not believing that Jesus is God Incarnate. And that hating is just deplorable. There are not enough words to describe how deplorable that hating is.

As I said, I am a not too intelligent man. Therefore I know that there is other thinking Christians on here on this thread that understand this subject at least as well as I do.

I want to call all of you thinking brothers together to see a particular confusion that lay at the base of this subject and focus with me on eradicating that particular misconception. For the entire foundation of those who hate their brothers because their brothers do not see Jesus as God Incarnate rests on this one point about which they are confused.

This is absolutely true: God is the one source of all light.

Those that see Jesus as God Incarnate see Jesus as the source of all Light.

Those of us that see Jesus as God's Son see Jesus as the torch dipped in God's light and sent to us. And he is the torch of all torches. No torch gets its light except from him.

Is everybody with me so far?

You see Jesus as a torch dipped in God's light.. ? ? Why when the word of God says plainly that HE IS the light of men, and that true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world..

IMO Who Says, people don't hate the person.. they hate the false doctrine.. and that's good, because if we LOVE the TRUTH we should HATE every FALSE way..

The scriptures could not be more clear in teaching us that Jesus Christ if God manifest in the flesh, that He is the fulness of the Godhead bodily.. that He is from everlasting, etc etc etc..

What possible reason could there to DENY His word in order to maintain a position that the Lord Jesus Christ isn't GOD.. what does that DO for you ?

 

[Who Says]

Why when the word of God says plainly that HE IS the light of men, and that true light that lighteth every man that comes into the world..

No man has seen God at anytime.

Apart from God man has no light.

God sent light to us as Jesus.

Jesus is therefore the only light we have of God.

Therefore Jesus can be nothing other than the light of all men.

He is the torch of all torches. No torch is lit but through him.

That is not difficult to understand.

 

[Eventide]

No man has seen God at anytime.

So now the Father isn't God either ? Didn't Jesus say that if you have seen Me that you have seen the Father..?

Doesn't the word of God say plainly that in the beginning was the word and that the word was with God and that the word was God.. or do you need to correct that for God ?

How about in Acts where it plainly says that God shed His own blood.. must be incorrect right..? We need to correct the word of God which is for ever settled in Heaven..? ?

How about Paul writing that HE IS the fulness of the Godhead bodily.. or that GOD WAS MANIFEST in the flesh.. we should forget all that and trust in your word ?

WHY, and as I asked.. WHAT POSSIBLE reason is there to deny the word of God..? WHAT DOES that DO for YOU ?

 

[Who Says]

So now the Father isn't God either ? Didn't Jesus say that if you have seen Me that you have seen the Father..?

Doesn't the word of God say plainly that in the beginning was the word and that the word was with God and that the word was God.. or do you need to correct that for God ?

How about in Acts where it plainly says that God shed His own blood.. must be incorrect right..? We need to correct the word of God which is for ever settled in Heaven..? ?

How about Paul writing that HE IS the fulness of the Godhead bodily.. or that GOD WAS MANIFEST in the flesh.. we should forget all that and trust in your word ?

WHY, and as I asked.. WHAT POSSIBLE reason is there to deny the word of God..? WHAT DOES that DO for YOU ?

What is a Son but a torch lit by the light of his Father?

Jesus is "uniquely" the Son of God.

Lit by his Father, his light is pure light as his Father's light is pure.

And Jesus has no lack of that light and therefore the fullness of it.

 

[Eventide]

What is a Son but a torch lit by the light of his Father?

Jesus is "uniquely" the Son of God.

Lit by his Father, his light is pure light as his Father's light is pure.

And Jesus has no lack of that light and therefore the fullness of it.

Well then, maybe we'll just ignore the truth of God's word and trust in what Who Says.. that the Lord Jesus Christ isn't God manifest in the flesh..

Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it..? Of course it does..

That's why I am asking.. WHY would anyone deny the word of God, what does that DO for you ?

And as mentioned.. when people LOVE the TRUTH, they HATE every false way.. so don't be surprised if people hate what Who Says.. it's only because the LOVE the TRUTH.. what HE says.. because it is for ever settled in Heaven.

 

[Who Says]

Well then, maybe we'll just ignore the truth of God's word and trust in what Who Says.. that the Lord Jesus Christ isn't God manifest in the flesh..

Sounds pretty ridiculous doesn't it..? Of course it does..

That's why I am asking.. WHY would anyone deny the word of God, what does that DO for you ?

And as mentioned.. when people LOVE the TRUTH, they HATE every false way.. so don't be surprised if people hate what Who Says.. it's only because the LOVE the TRUTH.. what HE says.. because it is for ever settled in Heaven.

John 1: 4 “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

John 5:26 “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;”

 

[Eventide]

John 1: 4 “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.â€

John 5:26 “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;â€

AMEN ! ! !

How about.. in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.. AMEN ?

How about God was manifest in the flesh.. AMEN ?

How about God shed His own blood.. AMEN ?

Hiow about before Abraham was, I AM.. AMEN ?

How about CHRIST IN YOU, our hope of glory, AMEN ?

How about I AM the first and the Last, the Almighty.. AMEN ?

 

[Eventide]

I'm curious as to why anyone who professes to be a Christian would DENY the word of God which is for ever settled in heaven... WHY ?

What does that DO ? What does it accomplish ?

How can a person be born again by the incorruptible word of God which lives and abides for ever and DENY its truth ?

 

[Who Says]

AMEN ! ! !

How about.. in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.. AMEN ?

How about God was manifest in the flesh.. AMEN ?

How about God shed His own blood.. AMEN ?

Hiow about before Abraham was, I AM.. AMEN ?

How about CHRIST IN YOU, our hope of glory, AMEN ?

How about I AM the first and the Last, the Almighty.. AMEN ?

What is a Son but a torch lit by the light of his Father?

Jesus is "uniquely" the Son of God.

Lit by his Father, his light is pure light as his Father's light is pure.

And Jesus has no lack of that light and therefore the fullness of it.

John 1: 4 “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.â€

John 5:26 “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;â€

What is a Son but a torch lit by the light of his Father?

 

[Eventide]

What is a Son but a torch lit by the light of his Father?

Jesus is "uniquely" the Son of God.

Lit by his Father, his light is pure light as his Father's light is pure.

And Jesus has no lack of that light and therefore the fullness of it.

John 1: 4 “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”

John 5:26 “For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;”

What is a Son but a torch lit by the light of his Father?

Well then it's obvious.. there's no AMEN to the word of God which plainly tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh.

It's settled.. you DENY the truth, you deny the word of God and stand upon your own word.

And you wonder why people HATE what you say ?

 

[Who Says]

Well then it's obvious.. there's no AMEN to the word of God which plainly tells us that the Lord Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh.

It's settled.. you DENY the truth, you deny the word of God and stand upon your own word.

And you wonder why people HATE what you say ?

Whose words do you hate?

 

[Eventide]

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

AMEN !

 

[Eventide]

Whose words do you hate?

The words of Who Says... specifically when you say that the Lord Jesus Christ is not God manifest in the flesh..

Are you implying that what you say is God's word..? LOL.. man's exalting himself has no limits does it..

 

[mcgyver]

Of my own self I am just a simple and not too intelligent man. If it were not for the HS I would in fact be completely stupid.

And if there is anything that turns my stomach it is foolish bickering for I see such as the fruit of degenerate minds. I usually therefore like to avoid discussing this subject as it has become the thing Christians who are supposed to be brothers argue about more than any other thing. But I just finished participation on the antichrist thread and while there I found that there is a surprising large number of persons hating their brothers and calling them antichrist for not believing that Jesus is God Incarnate. And that hating is just deplorable. There are not enough words to describe how deplorable that hating is.

I don't think that you are stupid at all...in fact I am impressed by your reasoning and desire to know the deeper things of God. Were it not so, I wouldn't take the time to open dialogue with you.

I do however think that you are mistaken in your conclusions in reference to the deity of Jesus Christ...and that is a big stumbling block.

As harsh as it may sound, the scripture demands that we do not have fellowship with those who call themselves Christians, yet deny the deity of Jesus Christ. The Apostle John names such as speaking in the spirit of antichrist...another Christ, a false Christ.

This separation is borne out in no less than the person of the Apostle John...let me explain this quickly.

In Ephesus there lived a fellow named Cerinthus who was a contemporary of John. Cerinthus preached the very same things that I've seen here on this board...that Jesus was a man who lived a perfect life, had a special relationship with God, etc., but was not God incarnate in the flesh.

Eusebius in his Ecclesiastical History Recounts the following story:

The Apostle John went to a public bath house in Ephesus, and upon seeing Cerinthus inside refused even to enter the building. "Let us flee" he said, "...because Cerinthus the enemy of truth is within."

As I said...sounds harsh...yet the deity of Christ is central the the Gospel.

I want to call all of you thinking brothers together to see a particular confusion that lay at the base of this subject and focus with me on eradicating that particular misconception. For the entire foundation of those who hate their brothers because their brothers do not see Jesus as God Incarnate rests on this one point about which they are confused.

This is absolutely true: God is the one source of all light.

Those that see Jesus as God Incarnate see Jesus as the source of all Light.

Those of us that see Jesus as God's Son see Jesus as the torch dipped in God's light and sent to us. And he is the torch of all torches. No torch gets its light except from him.

Is everybody with me so far?

God incarnate...the only way one can realistically deny the incarnation of Jesus Christ is to radically re-define not only Greek meaning in the manuscripts, but also the English translations...to radically re-define the person of messiah...to throw out both Jewish and early church history...to in essence re-interpret the entire counsel of God. To pass over and ignore the wealth of both OT and NT scripture that testify to the depth of God for His creation: That He would put on flesh and suffer for us, that we might be redeemed to Him.

For there could be no other way....hope you understand that I'm not trying to be harsh, but simply to state the facts, as it were....

 

[Eventide]

Who Says..

How about an AMEN here... no ?

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

No AMEN for you here I bet..

WHY..?

What point is there in DENYING the word of God... the only possible reason I can think of is that you don't actually BELIEVE it.

 

[Drew]

Be careful as this is begging the question. You have here presumed that YHWH is the name of God the Father, when the OT only uses it of the being known as God.

Yes. And in 1 Corinthians 8, Paul makes a statement that shows that he believes Jesus to be God. More specifically, and as argued in detail elsewhere, Paul takes this statement from the Old Testament:

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one

....and re-interprets it as this:

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live

In the Old Testament formulation, the descriptors "God" and "Lord" are clearly not differentiated - this famous statement could, of course, be read as saying "there is one "god" and we give Him the titles "Lord" and "God". Fine.

Now what has Paul done ? He has taken the term "God" and assigned to the "Father" and taken the term "Lord" and assigned it to Jesus. Unless Paul is dismissing the Old Testament - and it is very clear he is not, Paul effectively analyzes a previously "undifferentiated" Godhead and perceives (at least) two distinct persons within it.

I think it is important to note that just because the Old Testament is at best murky on the matter of multiple persons within the Godhead, this does not mean that Paul cannot advance the Old Testament model and "update" it, not in manner that overturns the Old Testament model, but rather in a manner that exposes a previously hidden truth.

 

[Who Says]

The words of Who Says... specifically when you say that the Lord Jesus Christ is not God manifest in the flesh..

Are you implying that what you say is God's word..? LOL.. man's exalting himself has no limits does it..

I believe Jesus came in the flesh to make God manifest to us. :yes