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Is Jesus really God ?

cleanfreak said:
all your scriptures are for the God the Father except your last one in Isiah 9:6.

Isaiah used the word 'mighty god' = EL GIBBOR, not EL SHADDAI = Almighty God.

The Son given to us shall be called EL GIBBOR.

Nowhere is the Son of God called EL SHADDAI.
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There is much proof there and elsewhere that when God visited certain people in bodily form, He visited as the Son.

I call Jesus Almighty God. Don't you think that you are being a tad nitpicky? Mighty God and Almighty God is STILL GOD!!! EL is still GOD.
 
cleanfreak said:
all your scriptures are for the God the Father except your last one in Isiah 9:6.

Isaiah used the word 'mighty god' = EL GIBBOR, not EL SHADDAI = Almighty God.

The Son given to us shall be called EL GIBBOR.

Nowhere is the Son of God called EL SHADDAI.
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused here...(not that I've ever been confused before, mind you :p)

You seem to be saying that there are two Gods...Jesus as a "mighty god", and the Father as "almighty God"...So am I missing your point?
 
Jesus is God because:

He is the Great Fountain from which all believers of all time received their supplies of Grace..

Jn 1:

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Also in Jn 1:

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

In some of the older manuscripts the greek has it " The Only God" instead of only begotten. John here is more than likely referring to Two different Beings here as God, as He did in Jn 1:1..
 
Alabaster said:
There is much proof there and elsewhere that when God visited certain people in bodily form, He visited as the Son.

I call Jesus Almighty God. Don't you think that you are being a tad nitpicky? Mighty God and Almighty God is STILL GOD!!! EL is still GOD.
Click to expand...

I have been taught this for most of my life and always "just" believed" what I was taught. Then, I did as 2 Timothy 2:15 states we should do. I studied to show myself approved. So yes, I may be a bit nitpicky, but it does not alter the truths I have posted.

mcgyver said:
I'm a bit confused here...(not that I've ever been confused before, mind you :p)

You seem to be saying that there are two Gods...Jesus as a "mighty god", and the Father as "almighty God"...So am I missing your point?
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Hello Mcgyver
I have only posted what I found in the Scriptures. It seems this is the case and also GIBBOR can be translated as "strong".

My point is I am trying to show Yeshua is not God the Father (YHWH).

Free said:
Sure. :) I can't think of an instance where Jesus is explicitly called YHWH. This, of course, does not mean that he isn't.
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With this logic, anyone not called YHWH in the Scriptures could be GOD the Father. :shame

savedbygrace57 said:
Jesus is God because:

He is the Great Fountain from which all believers of all time received their supplies of Grace..

Jn 1:

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Also in Jn 1:

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

In some of the older manuscripts the greek has it " The Only God" instead of only begotten. John here is more than likely referring to Two different Beings here as God, as He did in Jn 1:1..
Click to expand...

huh? The "only God" is in the bosom of the FATHER?

You have contradicted your own post and did not even know it.
 
Free said:
Sure. :) I can't think of an instance where Jesus is explicitly called YHWH. This, of course, does not mean that he isn't.
Click to expand...
Indeed, and this is precisely why it is too "narrow" to think solely in terms of names to resolve the "Is Jesus God" question.

Another way to solve this is to look at the narrative structure, or at least at relevant subsets of it. As I have argued in detail elsewhere, I suggest the following:

1. There is a clear Old Testament theme where God, yes God, promises to return to the people and the temple He has abandoned.

2. In the book of Luke, Jesus, yes Jesus, acts in a way that makes it clear that Jesus thinks He, yes He (Jesus) is the fulfiller of these promises.

3. If we agree that Jesus is mentally competent, we must conclude that He believes Himself to be God.

If some person who goes by the name "God" says "I will do such and such in the future", and then some person who goes by the name "Jesus" later says "I am the person who is fulfilling those promises that God has made", then we must conclude that Jesus is setting Himself in some kind of identity with God.

The "name" thing is a smokescreen - we do not need Jesus to be explicitly "named" as YHWH to otherwise (e.g. through analysis of the narrative) come to the conclusion that He is.

With all due respect, the "name" argument reminds of the argument that "its OK to smoke since smoking is not "named" (explicitly) as sin". Both that view, and the view that we demand Jesus be explicitly named as "God" represent an overly simplistic "Sunday School type" approach to understanding the scriptures.
 
cleanfreak said:
With this logic, anyone not called YHWH in the Scriptures could be GOD the Father. :shame
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No, not at all. This can only be said of Jesus, as has been repeatedly shown in several posts in a couple of different ways, none of which has really been addressed by non-trinitarians.
 
cleanfreak said:
I have been taught this for most of my life and always "just" believed" what I was taught. Then, I did as 2 Timothy 2:15 states we should do. I studied to show myself approved. So yes, I may be a bit nitpicky, but it does not alter the truths I have posted.
Click to expand...

I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that excuse. People grow up with solid Christian teaching and all of a sudden they think they have been sold a bill of goods. do you not realize that is an affectation of Satan? This is caused by lack of diligence and leaning on one's own understanding. This subject is one which will bring with it a consequence. I pray that God will move in on your life and show you the dire error you are making.
 
Alabaster said:
I wish I had a nickel for every time I've heard that excuse. People grow up with solid Christian teaching and all of a sudden they think they have been sold a bill of goods. do you not realize that is an affectation of Satan? This is caused by lack of diligence and leaning on one's own understanding. This subject is one which will bring with it a consequence. I pray that God will move in on your life and show you the dire error you are making.
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So studying to show yourself approved is an affectation of Satan?

confused you are.

lack of diligence? This is an insult.
You have no idea the work I have done and continue to do this day for God, my Family, my Church, and others.

God has moved in my life ever since I accepted his Son Jesus as my savior and continues to do so this day.

thanks for passing judgment.............
 
cleanfreak said:
So studying to show yourself approved is an affectation of Satan?

confused you are.

lack of diligence? This is an insult.
You have no idea the work I have done and continue to do this day for God, my Family, my Church, and others.

God has moved on my life ever since I accepted his Son Jesus as my savior and continues to do so this day.

thanks for passing judgment.............
Click to expand...

We are instructed by God to judge what is a lie and what is truth. This is a basic lie of Satan, and a serious one at that, that completely undermines God and Jesus Christ and His life in us and His plans for each of us, if we choose to believe it.

It is just what the devil likes to do when people have learned the truth once and then question it. He gives a little dig or two, saying, "Is that really the truth they taught you?" It is simply doubt. Then he presents you with another view that is a lie but seems very plausible to the natural mind. Rather than cast out those thoughts, some people retain them, and let them dwell.

A renewed mind in Christ says, "Get out of here, Satan. I believe the word of God and what He first told me about Himself when I first came to know Him!" Doubts can be easily cast out. Godly men and women we trust in our lives can also help us. Leaning on our own understanding causes us to slide sideways away from the truth.
 
Alabaster said:
We are instructed by God to judge what is a lie and what is truth. This is a basic lie of Satan, and a serious one at that, that completely undermines God and Jesus Christ and His life in us and His plans for each of us, if we choose to believe it.

It is just what the devil likes to do when people have learned the truth once and then question it. He gives a little dig or two, saying, "Is that really the truth they taught you?" It is simply doubt. Then he presents you with another view that is a lie but seems very plausible to the natural mind. Rather than cast out those thoughts, some people retain them, and let them dwell.

A renewed mind in Christ says, "Get out of here, Satan. I believe the word of God and what He first told me about Himself when I first came to know Him!" Doubts can be easily cast out. Godly men and women we trust in our lives can also help us. Leaning on our own understanding causes us to slide sideways away from the truth.
Click to expand...

Everything I have posted has been truth , straight from the Scriptures.

Since you do not agree you pass judgment, but do not want to be judged yourself. See Mathew 7:1.

I choose to not lean on my own understanding, but trust in the Lord with all my heart. I pray you do the same.
 
cleanfreak said:
Everything I have posted has been truth , straight from the Scriptures.

Since you do not agree you pass judgment, but do not want to be judged yourself. See Mathew 7:1.

I choose to not lean on my own understanding, but trust in the Lord with all my heart. I pray you do the same.
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I do, and I also believe that my Jesus is also God Incarnate, and unlike Thomas, I don't need to see and feel the wounds. I know He is my God come to rescue me from sin and death.

Don't take it personally. We are called to judge a lie.
 
Alabaster said:
I do, and I also believe that my Jesus is also God Incarnate, and unlike Thomas, I don't need to see and feel the wounds. I know He is my God come to rescue me from sin and death.

Don't take it personally. We are called to judge a lie.
Click to expand...

You state for me not to take this personally, then in the next sentence, you are basically calling me a liar?

Please show me where I have posted such lies.
 
cleanfreak said:
You state for me not to take this personally, then in the next sentence, you are basically calling me a liar?

Please show me where I have posted such lies.
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I am not calling anyone a liar but the father of lies, Satan. People believe His lies. In Christ I must judge a lie. When I see one, I call it what it is. Hopefully that will cause you to take a look at what it is you have chosen to believe.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes I believe Jesus is God,,,Perhaps our feeble minds are not quite able to understand the power which is the Godhead.

Anyhow Lets take a look at 2 scriptures

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Notice that Thomas believed Jesus to be his Lord and his God, and for those who are familiar but the words "Lord" and "God" hold the definite article...

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Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son (Jesus) is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
 
Prince said:
Hello Free I provided one.
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Hello Prince,

I will say that you have and you haven't. :) Technically, no one in the NT is YHWH since, as far as I know, YHWH is never used. Even where the NT quotes the OT in instances where YHWH is used, it is translated as kurios, or "Lord," which has a few meanings. In that sense, I would agree that Jesus is referred to as YHWH and that you have provided such an example.
 
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