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Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?

Is obeying the Lord required for salvation?

  • Total voters
    27
wondering said:
Israel already believed in God and Noah was a righteous man and walked with God.
I do believe they knew God and were saved when they began to obey Him.
No comment on Naaman,,,,sometimes God heals persons as a testimony for those that do believe.

Is repenting a matter of obedience?

The way I understand it is that we obey God after we have come to know Him.
Jesus said we must be born from above .... a second birth/ or, as some believe, we must be born again and baptized. John 3:5
Jesus states many times that His followers must obey Him.
Click to expand...

What I gave was examples of God's free gifts coming with conditions and meeting the conditions did not earn God's free gift. So there is no merit in the argument that obedience to God's will is earning, or attempt to earn, God's free gift.

wondering said:
Acts 3:19 says we repent and return to God and our sins are forgiven and then we are required to obey God.
Click to expand...

Repenting and turning are obedience.


wondering said:
Abraham heard from God....
then he obeyed and moved from his home of Haran.
Click to expand...

Would Abraham still been justified by God had Abraham refused to obey God by moving from his home, Gen 12? No.
 
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Ernest T. Bass said:
What I gave was examples of God's free gifts coming with conditions and meeting the conditions did not earn God's free gift. So there is no merit in the argument that obedience to God's will is earning, or attempt to earn, God's free gift.



Repenting and turning are obedience.




Would Abraham still been justified by God had Abraham refused to obey God by moving from his home, Gen 12? No.
Click to expand...
What I asked you and to which you did not really reply is this:

How is repenting a WORK or an obedience.

Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace and not by works.
Saying that repentance is obeying makes it a work --- a work for God but still a work.
 
wondering said:
What I asked you and to which you did not really reply is this:

How is repenting a WORK or an obedience.

Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace and not by works.
Saying that repentance is obeying makes it a work --- a work for God but still a work.
Click to expand...


Repent in context of the Gospel means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


Examine this exchange between Jesus and Saul of Tarsus that Paul recounts for king Agrippa.


Words of Christ in red.



And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:14-20


Key Verses:

to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins...



Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.



The Gospel is about turning to God in which we turn away from Satan as our Lord.


The way we obey this command to repent, turn to God, is to confess Jesus as Lord.


Once we make Jesus our Lord, then we must obey Him as our Lord. We are given the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace to accomplish this very thing of obeying Jesus as our Lord.


The work of obedience is to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in our heart, God raised Him from the dead.


This is the “work” or the faith action of obedience by which we are saved.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


The thief on the cross is a good example of this.



JLB
 
wondering said:
What I asked you and to which you did not really reply is this:

How is repenting an WORK or an obedience.

Ephesians 2:8 says we are saved by grace and not by works.
Saying that repentance is obeying makes it a work --- a work for God but still a work.
Click to expand...
repentance is an obedient work, something done not just something thought about.

Mt 12:41 Jesus said Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah. Jonah 3:10 says "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." Repentance is work God saw, just as faith is a work Jesus saw Mark 2:5. God was going to destroy Nineveh (Jonah 3:4) but Nineveh obediently did the work of repenting and God graciously spared the city. Their obedient work in repenting did not earn God's mercy but was a necessary condition that had to be met in order to receive God's mercy.

The "not of works" of Eph 2:8 refers to works of merit and does not refer to obedience to the will of God.

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." Nineveh did works (works God saw) that were meet for repentance. For us today, "works meet for repentance" includes obedience in submitting to water baptism.
 
Ernest T. Bass said:
repentance is an obedient work, something done not just something thought about.

Mt 12:41 Jesus said Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah. Jonah 3:10 says "And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not." Repentance is work God saw, just as faith is a work Jesus saw Mark 2:5. God was going to destroy Nineveh (Jonah 3:4) but Nineveh obediently did the work of repenting and God graciously spared the city. Their obedient work in repenting did not earn God's mercy but was a necessary condition that had to be met in order to receive God's mercy.

The "not of works" of Eph 2:8 refers to works of merit and does not refer to obedience to the will of God.

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance." Nineveh did works (works God saw) that were meet for repentance. For us today, "works meet for repentance" includes obedience in submitting to water baptism.
Click to expand...
What you and JLB have posted is very interesting.

Repentance = Obedience.
Once we have repented, we are required to obey.

You both seem to be saying that-
Obedience = Repentance

But until we repent, our obedience is of no value.
A person could be doing everything correctly, but without repentance and obedience of faith their works will be of no value for salvation.

Will be thinking on this.....
IOW, what you're both saying is that when I repented, I was obeying God's gospel.

IDK...Jesus said REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL....
He didn't say BELIEVE THE GOSPEL AND REPENT.

OTOH, we do have to believe what we've heard before repenting.

:thinking
 
wondering said:
But until we repent, our obedience is of no value.
A person could be doing everything correctly, but without repentance and obedience of faith their works will be of no value for salvation.
Click to expand...
Isn't repentance an act of obedience though? In other words, considering our rebellious state, in order to be obedient we would have to first repent (turn away from our rebellion and turn to God).
 
wondering said:
IDK...Jesus said REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL....
He didn't say BELIEVE THE GOSPEL AND REPENT.

OTOH, we do have to believe what we've heard before repenting.

:thinking
Click to expand...

Mark 1:15 Here, Jesus is speaking to those who believed in God, they were not atheists. Problem is they did not believe what God had told them. Had they believed God and what is said in the OT law then they would have known this man Jesus was the Messiah God had told them about. They are being told to repent of their disobedience for they were not living according to how God would have them live. By repenting then they come come to believe in Christ and the NT gospel.

Again, atheists are not being told to repent for why would an unbelieving atheist repent when he does not know or care he is lost in sin or have any idea what repentance is?
 
JLB said:
Repent in context of the Gospel means turn to God in submission to Him as Lord.


Examine this exchange between Jesus and Saul of Tarsus that Paul recounts for king Agrippa.


Words of Christ in red.



And when we all had fallen to the ground, I heard a voice speaking to me and saying in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads.’ So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.
Acts 26:14-20


Key Verses:

to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins...



Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance.



The Gospel is about turning to God in which we turn away from Satan as our Lord.


The way we obey this command to repent, turn to God, is to confess Jesus as Lord.


Once we make Jesus our Lord, then we must obey Him as our Lord. We are given the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace to accomplish this very thing of obeying Jesus as our Lord.


The work of obedience is to confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in our heart, God raised Him from the dead.


This is the “work” or the faith action of obedience by which we are saved.


For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:10


The thief on the cross is a good example of this.



JLB
Click to expand...
Do you agree with post no. 124?

In the case of Paul, I agree that he obeyed before salvation on his way to Damascus.
Jesus spoke to him directly.

Is it your belief that Jesus speaks to us in a direct way to repent and so when we do it is being obedient?
 
WIP said:
Isn't repentance an act of obedience though? In other words, considering our rebellious state, in order to be obedient we would have to first repent (turn away from our rebellion and turn to God).
Click to expand...
I don't know...I've never heard of this.
You said: in order to be obedient we would have to first repent.

Doesn't this mean that one repents first, and then becomes obedient?
 
Ernest T. Bass said:
Mark 1:15 Here, Jesus is speaking to those who believed in God, they were not atheists. Problem is they did not believe what God had told them. Had they believed God and what is said in the OT law then they would have known this man Jesus was the Messiah God had told them about. They are being told to repent of their disobedience for they were not living according to how God would have them live. By repenting then they come come to believe in Christ and the NT gospel.

Again, atheists are not being told to repent for why would an unbelieving atheist repent when he does not know or care he is lost in sin or have any idea what repentance is?
Click to expand...
What makes you believe Mark 1:15 is to those that believed in God?
 
wondering said:
I don't know...I've never heard of this.
You said: in order to be obedient we would have to first repent.

Doesn't this mean that one repents first, and then becomes obedient?
Click to expand...
I'm looking at the definition of the two terms. What is repentance? It is a turning away from our disobedient ways and back to obedience with God. As long as we remain unrepentant, we remain disobedient.
 
wondering said:
What you and JLB have posted is very interesting.

Repentance = Obedience.
Once we have repented, we are required to obey.

You both seem to be saying that-
Obedience = Repentance

But until we repent, our obedience is of no value.
A person could be doing everything correctly, but without repentance and obedience of faith their works will be of no value for salvation.

Will be thinking on this.....
IOW, what you're both saying is that when I repented, I was obeying God's gospel.

IDK...Jesus said REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL....
He didn't say BELIEVE THE GOSPEL AND REPENT.

OTOH, we do have to believe what we've heard before repenting.

:thinking
Click to expand...

The work of repentance concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.


Repent means turn to God.

This is the action of obedience by which faith operates.

The way we repent Is confessing with our mouth Jesus as Lord.

When we turn to Him by confessing Him as Lord, we are believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.




JLB
 
WIP said:
What is repentance?
Click to expand...

Concerning the Gospel repent means turn to God.

If we are called to turn to God, then by default we are called to turn away from Satan as our lord.

If Jesus is not our Lord, our Master, the one we obey, then Satan is our lord.

Words of Christ in red.

Jesus speaking to Paul —


But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:16-20


The way we obey the Gospel command to repent, is confess Jesus as Lord.



JLB
 
JLB said:
The work of repentance concerning the Gospel is to confess Jesus as Lord.


Repent means turn to God.

This is the action of obedience by which faith operates.

The way we repent Is confessing with our mouth Jesus as Lord.

When we turn to Him by confessing Him as Lord, we are believing and therefore obeying the Gospel.




JLB
Click to expand...
I know what repent means.

But do you mean like when Jesus said:
REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.

He tell us to repent....
so when we DO repent we are obeying Him?

Don't give me more verses,,,I'm too tired.
Just reply simply because I think I understand.
Thanks!
 
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