i agree but all that can be done is bring what the word of god says we often leave out in a unworthy manner / we are not worthy of our self.. but that is not what it mean unworthy manner.. i feel same way on baptism in many baptist churches the have closed communion .i dont agree with that.. if your not a member your not allowed to participate in the church service. your welcome to attend . that is it
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?
- Thread starter Fastfredy0
- Start date
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Yeah, I was sort of carpet bombing ...
I will let my inquiry for an explanation drop.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
I will take that under advisement.
Walking according to the Spirit is more than a good attitude, just as walking according to the flesh is more than having a bad attitude.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.Romans 8:1
Living according to the flesh, whereby we are controlled by the sinful desires of our flesh, in that we practice the works of the flesh, rather than being motivated and led by the Spirit who dwells within us, will result in us becoming lost, and not inheriting the kingdom of God.
JLB
Because the works of the law is not the obedience of faith.
The law is not of faith.
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them. Galatians 3:12
The works of the law of Moses was much more than the 10 Commandments.
Their were animal sacrifices, Sabbath requirements, physical circumcision, feast days to be carefully observed, ceremonial washings, and on and on and on....
When we obey the Gospel, Jesus is our Lord, the One we are to obey.
IOW, in the example I gave from James, Abraham heard God and directly responded to Him in obedience.
Thats how faith comes to us, by hearing God.
Abraham walked in obedience to His Voice and kept His commandments and laws by faith, because He learned directly from the Lord, in which the Lord imparted grace to Him to be able to do what he heard.
Grace is the Holy Spirit; the Spirit of grace.
When we walk in relationship with Him and hear Him speak to us we receive faith and grace from Him.
This is how He designed Adam to live and fulfill His purpose, by learning directly from Him, being filled with His Life everyday.
Partaking of the tree of life; Jesus Christ the Lord
Not so with the law of Moses. The children of Israel didn’t want to hear His voice.
Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” Exodus 20:19
JLB
NO!
Don't let your inquiry for an explanation drop.
Just narrow it down to one or two verses...
that anyone can handle.
That other long post of yours (that I already commented on)
is also impossible for ME to reply to,,,and it's addressed to me.
PLEASE narrow down your replies. No need for such in depth info.
This is not a formal debate!
Maybe I'm not a nice person after-all because I do have days or moments when I am anything but nice. Just ask my wife. Seriously.
Same is true with godparents. They too most often think of it as a position of honor, much like a best man or maid of honor but there is much more responsibility involved. I bet there are people accepting the role that are not even Christian.
Ditto for my husband.
But, seriously, we all have our moments.
When we get angry, it is not a sin unless we dwell on it
and it causes us to do something UNPLEASANT.
It's as JLB likes to say...
we are no longer sinners but are children of God.
He says it much better than I can.
We sin,,,but we are not sinners.
Persons that are not nice tend to be sinners.
We're only human and will become angry or upset or haughty or who knows
what else.
I've learned that it's what we do with our feelings that counts....
and our desire to do better - always seeking God's help.
And we should never be discouraged and give the victory to the evil one...
he loves it when we're discouraged.
John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
And what a wonderful right it is!
Correct.
The responsibility is that they're to have a share in the raising of the child in the faith of Christianity....and even more so if something happened to the parents.
Also correct about some not even being Christian.
A priest I know would not let a certain couple be Godparents because they were living together.
They were very upset and also the parents.
There is no understanding unless one is born again and loves God.
Ernest T. Bass
Member
Those that do "not obey" will be in flaming fire (2 Thessalonians 1:8), this disobedient will receive God's wrath Ephesians 5:6; Colossians 3:6. Therefore obedience to the will of God is necessary to be saved.
Per Luke 10:27, this occurred while the OT law of Moses was still in effect and that law did require strict, perfect adherence to all of its laws to be justified. Yet no one other than Christ was able to perfectly keep the law. This means for those that desire to be saved, they must be 'in Christ' thereby identify with Christ and clothed in His perfect righteousness. By being in and remaining 'in Christ', then ALL of the Christians sins are continually cleansed away by the blood of Christ (1 John 1:7) keeping the Christian holy, spotless and without wrinkle and blameless before God 2 Peter 3:14, Ephesians 5:27.
So what will be impossible for man (in keeping God's commands perfectly whereby he will be perfectly sinless before God) is possible through Christ.
Amen.
Amen.
I would like to discuss the “remaining in Christ” part of your post. I think this is an important part of our spiritual walk that some may not be aware of.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Here is how this same John has instructed to remain “in Christ“.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
- he who keeps His commandments abides in Him.
again
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4
Maybe you or Fastfredy0 could share some other scriptures that pertain to “remaining in Christ”.
JLB
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
JLB Ernest T. Bass
Abide is used 120 times in New Testament. It means: Remain, dwell, continue, tarry, stay and endure. In reference to spiritual reality the word “abide” indicates a constancy in relation to Christ. It is also true that Christ referred to His own abiding in the believer (cf. John 15:5), which relationship could never fail since it depends only on His faithfulness.
Communion (abiding) depends upon agreement and agreement requires complete subjection of one to his superior; thus it is imperative that the commandments of the one shall be kept by the other. Christ in: John 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
John 15:6 John 15:2 1 John 1:1 - 2:2
(There is debate as to whether or not man can stop obeying/abiding and thus break this union)
Ernest T. Bass
Member
Both John 15:6-7 John 15:10 begin with the conditional word "if"....IF one CONDITIONALLY keeps Christ's commands he CONDITIONALLY abides in Christ's love.
One can choose to stop obeying by the same volition used to choose to start obeying. Why the use the conditional word "if" if stopping were not possible?
We all agree Jesus is our faithful Husband.
His warning is not about His faithfulness to us, but clearly about our faithfulness to Him.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
If anyone, refers to anyone who is in Christ.
Again, this same John, by the Spirit, instructs us how to remain
”in Christ”.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
again
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 2:4
JLB
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Good point. I don't want to go on this tangent as the topic is "abiding" within the topic heading of "you have to do works to maintain your salvation", so I will be brief.
Short answer.
"If" is defined as "on the condition or supposition that; in the event that".
You assume that there is no possibility that the condition will always be met. There is nothing in the definition of "IF" that negates this possibility. Admittedly, we tend to assume as you have.
Example: If I jump high enough I can leave the earth's atmosphere. If you are consistent you think I have the potential to leave the earth's atmosphere. You know there is NO WAY I can do it based on other knowledge you have.
Sounds like this is more about Eternal Security ... Union with Christ vs. communion with Christ ... that is another can of worms.
Fastfredy0
2024 Supporter
Ernest T. Bass
Member
1 John 1:7 "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. "
The "If" makes having all sins cleansed by the blood of Christ CONDITIONAL upon ones continued (present tense) walking in the light.
1) the "if' does not mean one can do the impossible like jumping up into the atmosphere.
2) the 'if' does show that it is possible to either choose to walk in the light or choose not to walk in the light.
3) When Saul/Paul was converted to Christianity he continued to walk in the light up until he died (2 Timothy 4:6-8) so the "if" does not mean it is impossible for the condition to always be met. The condition was always met by Paul but not by others who fell becoming apostates.
The question of this thread is if obedience to God's commands is necessary to being saved?
--Yes it is for those that "obey not" will be in flaming fire per 2 Thessalonians 1:8.
--but man is not capable of perfectly obeying God's command thereby man sins.
--yet God will not allow any sin of man to enter heaven how then can man ever be saved eternally in heaven?
--Since Christ was sinless and kept God's commands perfectly then man must be in Christ, must be clothed in Christ's perfect righteousness and therefore will be seen by God as sinless, without spot and blameless. If one is outside of Christ then God does see his sins therefore there is no salvation outside of the body of Christ. This is why if one is to be saved he must abide in and remain in Christ.
So per the question of this thread;
Where does the Bible teach one can be saved while in continually disobeying God and outside of Christ? It does not.
Where does the Bible teach disobedience identifies one with Christ clothing one in Christ's righteousness? It does not.
Only by being in Christ and remaining in Christ can one be saved and being in and remaining in Christ takes continued obedience until one dies...as Paul.
The question of this thread comes close to the forbidden topic of OSAS so I won't go any further with my response other than to reiterate that yes obedience is necessary to being saved and not just a one moment in time obedience but continued life long obedience.