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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is The "he" of Daniel 9:27 Our Lord Jesus?
- Thread starter veteran
- Start date
Sinthesis
Member
Suppose Christ is behind the coming one world government.veteran said:
- Mat 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
1Cr 15:24 - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Sinthesis said:
Thanks Sinthesis,
I don’t think so.
Power over temporal kingdoms has been delivered to Lucifer:
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luke 4: 5-7
Christ reiterates:
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
John 18: 36-37
Lucifer has been cast out from Heaven:
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 12: 31
John reiterates:
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Revelation 12: 12-13
Lucifer empowers Antichrist:
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Revelation 13: 3-4
Christ takes back the kingdom and inaugurates the Millennium:
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19: 19-20
After the Millennium, Christ delivers the kingdom to the Father; prophesied by Daniel (great white throne judgment):
1Cr 15:24 - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Sinthesis said:Suppose Christ is behind the coming one world government.
- Mat 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
1Cr 15:24 - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Not the one that's forming up today, for He warned His servants about a final beast kingdom in the last days just prior to His coming. That's what the Dan.2 Scripture is revealing, as also in Revelation.
The world system forming up today is to eventually be an attempted COPY of Christ's eternal Kingdom to come. The primary movers behind the one-world government movement today are not God's people, even though some of them claim to be Christian.
And make no mistake, the final beast kingdom of Rev.13:1 will be a kingdom beast, for our Lord Jesus used the previous beast kingdoms of Dan.7 to compare it to in Rev.13:2. The previous beast kingdoms had kings over them, including the Roman empire with caesars. This final beast kingdom will have a king over it too, and it ain't gonna' be our Lord Jesus Christ, nor a pope, nor a president, etc. It's going to be a world monarchy, with a world king, but a false king. That narrows the playing field doesn't it? All the hype about the coming antichrist being anything other than a king is nothing but hype.
Those who wrongly believe today's forming up of a one-world government over all nations is Christ's Kingdom are already in Satan's snare.
Sinthesis
Member
Your misunderstanding of both Daniel and Revelation is a stumbling block.veteran said:Sinthesis said:Suppose Christ is behind the coming one world government.
- Mat 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
1Cr 15:24 - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Not the one that's forming up today, for He warned His servants about a final beast kingdom in the last days just prior to His coming. That's what the Dan.2 Scripture is revealing, as also in Revelation.
Are we not to pray for an earth as it is in heaven?veteran said:
If you are running; self confident in your stride, then the thing about a stumbling block is it is not just one step that is affected. It may take multiple steps to regain your balance, yet you are now off the correct path. Such it is with prophetic interpretation.veteran said:
I never suggested any political system could be Christ's Kingdom, but could not Christ set up a worldly political system to His purpose?veteran said:
Small wonder you should find what you are looking for if you spend all your time seeking evidence of Satan's work. Better then to view the world looking for evidence of Christ's Power. Seek and ye shall find.
Sinthesis said:Your misunderstanding of both Daniel and Revelation is a stumbling block.veteran said:Sinthesis said:Suppose Christ is behind the coming one world government.
- Mat 28:18 - And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 - Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
1Cr 15:24 - Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 - For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
Not the one that's forming up today, for He warned His servants about a final beast kingdom in the last days just prior to His coming. That's what the Dan.2 Scripture is revealing, as also in Revelation.
Are we not to pray for an earth as it is in heaven?veteran said:
Big difference between this present world and the world to come through Christ Jesus. Sadly, some deceived Christian brethren are going to have to find that out the 'hard' way. Quite a few brethren already have found that out in Communist and Muslim nations.
Sinthesis
Member
Deceived Christian brethren? Surely you are not suggesting that Christian Missionaries persecuted every day in godless nations are deceived.veteran said:
What do you mean by 'hard' way? Do the two witnesses find out the 'hard' way?
- Rev 14:13 - And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Has your world not been changed by Jesus Christ? :verysad
Sinthesis said:Deceived Christian brethren? Surely you are not suggesting that Christian Missionaries persecuted every day in godless nations are deceived.
What do you mean by 'hard' way? Do the two witnesses find out the 'hard' way?
Christian brethren in foreign Communist and Muslim nations already found out what times we're in today, by the persecutions they've been under. That's what I'm saying. But deceived brethren like yourself can't distinguish what times we're in today, otherwise you'd know better than to think Christ's "thousand years" reign on earth with His elect had already begun. Afterall, you were the one who said, "We are in the 'Milennium'", which of course is not true, simply because of the type events to take place with Christ's "thousand years" reign are not yet manifest. You've got to get a lot... of Bible Scripture mixed up to think we're already in Christ's Milennium.
veteran said:
Agreed.
It's like trying to argue with Lenin's mindset.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/w ... tbd/iv.htm
Vic C.
Member
While I respect opinions and allow many positions to be discussed here, we shouldn't think of a multitude of believers over hundreds and hundreds of years of Christendom, up to and including the Reformers and beyond, as being deceived. 
Those who are of the amil position may not be deceived; they just view prophecy and eschatology in a different way. Instead of accusing them of being deceived, show them where you feel they are wrong and I'm sure they will show you why they believe what they believe.
Those who are of the amil position may not be deceived; they just view prophecy and eschatology in a different way. Instead of accusing them of being deceived, show them where you feel they are wrong and I'm sure they will show you why they believe what they believe.
Vic C. said:While I respect opinions and allow many positions to be discussed here, we shouldn't think of a multitude of believers over hundreds and hundreds of years of Christendom, up to and including the Reformers and beyond, as being deceived.
Those who are of the amil position may not be deceived; they just view prophecy and eschatology in a different way. Instead of accusing them of being deceived, show them where you feel they are wrong and I'm sure they will show you why they believe what they believe.
I sense you might be addressing that at me.
The Reformers simply based Bible prophecy on the events going on in their day, like they were supposed to do. I never implied they themselves were willingly deceived, but that the prophecies they believed was meant for their days was not all meant for that time. The proof is, here we still are today, and Christ's second coming has not happenned yet.
I'll use the "abomination of desolation" prophecy to show what I mean.
In Matt.24 and Mark 13, our Lord Jesus warned of a false one coming that would fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel, which is specifically about a false one setting up false worship in the temple in Jerusalem (Dan.11).
Yet one Antiochus Epiphanes appeared before that, back around 170 B.C., and fulfilled that abomination of desolation prophecy practically to a tee. So if Antiochus already showed the signs of fulfillment, why would our Lord Jesus warn about the abomination of desolation again during the time of His Ministry almost 200 years later?
It's because Antiochus did not historically fulfill ALL the abomination of desolation prophecy. But what he did do in 165-170 B.C. aligned closer with the prophecy than what the later Roman army did in 70 A.D. Jerusalem. Even with the Roman destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D., we can still see a lot of the prophecy unfulfilled. I mean Christ's second coming didn't happen, the Romans destroyed Jerusalem like Nebuchadnezzar did, and the temple burned down before any such abomination could be setup in it for false worship. Antiochus actually reached inside the temple in his day and profaned the holy place, while not destroying the temple.
What does that reveal? It shows that some prophecies have multiple types of fulfillment, with all the previous examples lacking one or more prophetic parameters, and it can continue until all the conditions of prophecy are met in toto.
This is why we can find many examples in history, and even in our days of the role of a false Christ, but we cannot find evidence of a complete fulfillment of all the parameters in the prophecy.
Many may not believe me when I say that our Heavenly Father showed us this way of fulfillment of prophecy already. But He did. In Isaiah 14 God linked the king of Assyria as a 'type' for Lucifer (Satan). In Ezekiel 31, God linked pharoah and again the king of Assyria as 'types' for what Satan did in original rebellion against Him. In Ezekiel 28, God linked the prince and king of Tyrus (rock) with the cherub Satan and his original rebellion.
I've given the following example before, but here it is again...
Isa 30:30-33
30 And the LORD shall cause His glorious voice to be heard, and shall shew the lighting down of His arm, with the indignation of His anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones.
The timing? You understand about God's wrath at the end of this world when Christ comes. That's the timing here in verse 30. That event will end this present world on the day of The LORD.
31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.
32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will he fight with it.
33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; He hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
(KJV)
God is using Tophet ('a place of fire') as a graphic metaphor there. It's as a symbol for the pit where Satan will be cast to on the day of The LORD, and especially about hell going into the "lake of fire" after Christ's Milennium reign. It being "ordained of old" marks God's setting it up for judgment especially for Satan and his angels, since Satan sinned from the beginning. But why is God using the historical flesh king of Assyria as a 'type' for Satan's eventual destruction? If that example isn't clear enough, look at the one in Ezekiel 28 and 31. God starts by referring to flesh historical kings, and then changes the subject to Satan himself.
That's the pattern of what has been will be again, and there's no new thing under the sun. Likewise in all the Books of the Old Testament prophets, we can find some parameters of prophecy that was never fulfilled historically. Yet many will say, oh, that already happened in history, simply because they miss those few parameters that have yet to be fulfilled. I mean, with some OT prophecies we can find direct historical links to their fulfillment of much of it, however, there still can exist a few things that did not happen historically.
In Ezekiel 28:18 God prophesied that He would cause a fire in the midst of whom He was speaking of. But who was He speaking of with that, the flesh prince and king of Tyrus that He began with in the chapter? Some choose to think so, and then refuse thereafter to see He was really saying that about the cherub that covereth that had been in His Garden of Eden, i.e., the devil.
Likewise with the forth beast of Daniel of iron, and Rev.13, it's not difficult to apply that historically to Rome, and treat it as history. But honestly, were all... the parameters in the prophecy fulfilled in history? No.