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Is The Law of God Still in Force Today ?/Matthew 5:17,18

Are Christians required to be circumcised

The question was directed at Jethro, so I'll let Jethro answer it. But I'd like to point out that circumcision is a requirement of the covenant with Abraham, of which you claim to be a member. According to what you yourself have said, you should be circumcised, as should everybody else who is grafted onto that covenant.

The TOG​
 
The law has always been temporary.

The righteous requirements of God that were seen in the law are eternal.

How do you tell the difference? In a previous post, I listed 3 different commandments and asked you about them. You said they were all part of the law of Moses, even though every one of them is prefaced with "and God said" or something comparable. You claimed that certain laws were in existence before Moses, but when asked, you couldn't provide any scriptural evidence to support that claim. And when I have pointed out to you that commandments such as the dietary laws and the Sabbath are to be found in the Bible before they were given to Moses, you haven't been able to give any explanation. So tell us. How do you determine what laws are the law of God and what laws are the law of Moses?

The TOG​
 
How do you tell the difference? In a previous post, I listed 3 different commandments and asked you about them. You said they were all part of the law of Moses, even though every one of them is prefaced with "and God said" or something comparable. You claimed that certain laws were in existence before Moses, but when asked, you couldn't provide any scriptural evidence to support that claim. And when I have pointed out to you that commandments such as the dietary laws and the Sabbath are to be found in the Bible before they were given to Moses, you haven't been able to give any explanation. So tell us. How do you determine what laws are the law of God and what laws are the law of Moses?

The TOG​

Are Christians required to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses?

Yes or No?
 
The law has always been temporary.
I see. Temporary as in now nullified, abolished, and destroyed (by virtue of them not being kept and fulfilled).

I seem to recall something about Jesus saying he did not come to do that. :shrug

Your doctrine fails to keep the law 'interpreted' so as to be obeyed in direct violation of what Jesus said concerning the law.
 
(Post removed, response to deleted portion of a post. Obadiah)
 
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(Post removed, response to deleted portion of a post. Obadiah)
 
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I see. Temporary as in now nullified, abolished, and destroyed (by virtue of them not being kept and fulfilled).

I seem to recall something about Jesus saying he did not come to do that. :shrug

Your doctrine fails to keep the law 'interpreted' so as to be obeyed in direct violation of what Jesus said concerning the law.


Temporary as in the law was added until the Seed should come... Galatians 3:19


Temporary as in the made obsolete... Hebrews 8:13


Temporary as in we are not under the law but under grace... Romans 6:14

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. 15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!


Temporary as in no Levitical priesthood for the people to receive the law from... Hebrews 7:11

11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12

Temporary as in the law has changed...Hebrews 7:12


The law was added until the Seed should come.


Christians are not obligated to keep the law of Moses.



JLB

 
How do you tell the difference? In a previous post, I listed 3 different commandments and asked you about them. You said they were all part of the law of Moses, even though every one of them is prefaced with "and God said" or something comparable. You claimed that certain laws were in existence before Moses, but when asked, you couldn't provide any scriptural evidence to support that claim. And when I have pointed out to you that commandments such as the dietary laws and the Sabbath are to be found in the Bible before they were given to Moses, you haven't been able to give any explanation. So tell us. How do you determine what laws are the law of God and what laws are the law of Moses?

The TOG​

Is it a sin to eat Pork?


Yes or No?


JLB
 
First of all, Jesus didn't come to redeem us from God's law (which you call the law of Moses), but from what Paul calls "the law of sin and death"
That is not altogether true -- only partially true. There is much more to it.

Actually, Christ Himself called the Torah the "Law of Moses" (Lk 24:44), and the Law of Moses is a part of the Law in its broader sense -- the Tanach -- the Old Testament (2 Cor 3:14). Within the Law of Moses was the Old Covenant, which is called "the First Covenant" in Hebrews 8:7 and 9:1.

The Old Covenant was TEMPORARY, therefore God made a New Covenant, and Christ established that New Covenant with His own blood. This is "a better Covenant" because it is based on "better promises" (Heb 8:6). Those who presently wish to cling to the Law of Moses and the Old Covenant are directly opposed to the will of God as expressed in Heb 8:7-13:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Until 70 AD it was "ready to vanish away". When the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed, the Old Covenant "vanished away". The Levitical priesthood, the Levites, the Temple offerings, the Temple sacrifices, and the feasts were all abolished. Animal sacrifices could only "cover" sins. The Lamb of God "took away the sin of the world" and said "It is finished", therefore the veil in the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Whether or not we like it, the Old Covenant was ABOLISHED, and it is God who abolished it and brought in the New Covenant. Thus was the Law "fulfilled" in Christ Himself and in His one great sacrifice for sins forever.

Now there is no going back to Moses, unless Jews/Messianics wish to be disobedient to God. And even the righteous Jew Cephas (Peter) made it clear, that while the Law of Moses was in force, it was impossible to observe it (Acts 15:10): Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

There were only four injunctions from the Law of Moses required to be observed by Christians: (1) no meat offered to idols, (2) no strangulated meat, (3) no consumption of blood, and (4) no fornication (Acts 15:20,29). This was not a human decision, but a decision of the Holy Ghost (Acts 15:28). Other than that, all meats became lawful for Christians (1 Tim 4:3-5).

The Ten Commandments became the Law of Christ or the Law of Love (Rom 13:8-10) and the sabbath -- being a "shadow" of God's eternal sabbath rest (Heb 4:9-11) -- was replaced with "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) -- "the first day of the week" (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2) -- during which the Lord's Supper was observed and Christians brought their offerings to God.
 
I've already answered that. Why won't you answer the question I asked you?

The TOG​


No you don't ever answer the simple straight forward questions I ask you.

You say it's a trap (Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah)



Please answer the straight forward question, if you can (Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah)


Please use scripture.


My answer to this Forum and Thread is No.

It's not a sin to eat pork.

Scripture reference:

18 So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" Mark 7:18-19

and again -

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Romans 14:14


Eating Pork is not sin.



JLB
 
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That is not altogether true -- only partially true. There is much more to it.

Actually, Christ Himself called the Torah the "Law of Moses" (Lk 24:44), and the Law of Moses is a part of the Law in its broader sense -- the Tanach -- the Old Testament (2 Cor 3:14). Within the Law of Moses was the Old Covenant, which is called "the First Covenant" in Hebrews 8:7 and 9:1.

The Old Covenant was TEMPORARY, therefore God made a New Covenant, and Christ established that New Covenant with His own blood. This is "a better Covenant" because it is based on "better promises" (Heb 8:6). Those who presently wish to cling to the Law of Moses and the Old Covenant are directly opposed to the will of God as expressed in Heb 8:7-13:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Until 70 AD it was "ready to vanish away". When the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed, the Old Covenant "vanished away". The Levitical priesthood, the Levites, the Temple offerings, the Temple sacrifices, and the feasts were all abolished. Animal sacrifices could only "cover" sins. The Lamb of God "took away the sin of the world" and said "It is finished", therefore the veil in the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Whether or not we like it, the Old Covenant was ABOLISHED, and it is God who abolished it and brought in the New Covenant. Thus was the Law "fulfilled" in Christ Himself and in His one great sacrifice for sins forever.

Now there is no going back to Moses, unless Jews/Messianics wish to be disobedient to God. And even the righteous Jew Cephas (Peter) made it clear, that while the Law of Moses was in force, it was impossible to observe it (Acts 15:10): Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

There were only four injunctions from the Law of Moses required to be observed by Christians: (1) no meat offered to idols, (2) no strangulated meat, (3) no consumption of blood, and (4) no fornication (Acts 15:20,29). This was not a human decision, but a decision of the Holy Ghost (Acts 15:28). Other than that, all meats became lawful for Christians (1 Tim 4:3-5).

The Ten Commandments became the Law of Christ or the Law of Love (Rom 13:8-10) and the sabbath -- being a "shadow" of God's eternal sabbath rest (Heb 4:9-11) -- was replaced with "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) -- "the first day of the week" (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2) -- during which the Lord's Supper was observed and Christians brought their offerings to God.


Ditto!

Christ administrates God laws as He is the Mediator of the New Covenant, thus it is called the law of Christ.


His law.

That is why Isaiah says the coastlands wait for His Law. - The law of Christ.

The law of Moses was in effect at the time The Spirit spoke these words through the mouth of Isaiah -

1 "Behold! My Servant whom I uphold, My Elect One in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit upon Him; He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles. 2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice, Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed He will not break, And smoking flax He will not quench; He will bring forth justice for truth. 4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law." 5 Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk on it: 6 "I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles, 7 To open blind eyes, To bring out prisoners from the prison, Those who sit in darkness from the prison house. Isaiah 42:1-7



I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles...

and again -

... the coastlands shall wait for His law.


His law is not the law of Moses... Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12


Jesus is the High Priest, not Levi.

the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.

From the law of Moses to the law of Christ.


JLB
 
That is not altogether true -- only partially true. There is much more to it.

Actually, Christ Himself called the Torah the "Law of Moses" (Lk 24:44), and the Law of Moses is a part of the Law in its broader sense -- the Tanach -- the Old Testament (2 Cor 3:14). Within the Law of Moses was the Old Covenant, which is called "the First Covenant" in Hebrews 8:7 and 9:1.

Yes, Jesus did refer to the Torah as the "law of Moses", but when he said that, everyone understood that he mean the law that God gave through Moses. There was no difference in their minds between the law of God and the law of Moses. I was addressing JLB. He has some way (which he has so far refused to explain) of differentiating between the law of God and the law of Moses. That's why I used those terms the way I did.

Now there is no going back to Moses, unless Jews/Messianics wish to be disobedient to God. And even the righteous Jew Cephas (Peter) made it clear, that while the Law of Moses was in force, it was impossible to observe it (Acts 15:10): Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

The New Testament, including the part you quoted, was not written in a vacuum. It was written in a specific cultural and linguistic context. Our culture affects our language, and therefore our language can often only be understood, if we understand the culture that has molded it. Because we grew up in the culture and it is part of us, we never think about this, but we can run into problems when reading or listening to something from another culture, which we do not fully understand. For example, if I say to you "Most things are hay in hardship", you probably wouldn't have any idea what I was talking about. It's an Icelandic saying, and to understand it, you have to understand Icelandic culture and how Icelanders have lived for the past 1100 years. Without knowing what's behind it, you might think that hay represents something worthless, similar to what the Bible says about the grass that blooms today but withers tomorrow. Based on this understanding , you might conclude that the saying meant that in hardship, everything you don't absolutely need is worthless. While that is true, it's the exact opposite of what the saying means. Iceland has for most of it's history been a nation built primarily on farming and agriculture (and to a large extent still is). Because grass doesn't grow during the winter, farmers gather hay during the late summer and autumn, to feed their flocks through the winter months. Come next summer, they burn or otherwise dispose of any hay that is left in their barns, to make room for new hay. But when there were hardships, and there was little hay to be had, the farmers would use whatever they could, even if it was old hay or low quality, to keep their animals alive.

So, why the Icelandic lesson? Because most people reading the Bible are in the exact same position. They are reading something from a culture they don't understand, and the most common interpretation of that verse is one result. When we see the word "yoke" we think of something heavy, or in this context, difficult. Because we have been taught that the law was too difficult to keep (which actually contradicts what the Bible says), we assume that the word "yoke" refers to the law. But that isn't the case. In Hebrew, "yoke" or "burden" can refer to a specific interpretation of the law. Each rabbi would have his interpretation of the law, which he would teach to his disciples, and which he expected them to follow. This was called that rabbis yoke or burden, which he laid on his disciples. What is being referred to in Acts 15:10 is the Pharisees interpretation of the law, not the law itself. Jesus also told us his interpretation of the law, which he expected his disciples (and us today) to follow. He said his yoke was easy and his burden light. That was a reference to his interpretation of the law (which we know is the right interpretation).

There were only four injunctions from the Law of Moses required to be observed by Christians: (1) no meat offered to idols, (2) no strangulated meat, (3) no consumption of blood, and (4) no fornication (Acts 15:20,29). This was not a human decision, but a decision of the Holy Ghost (Acts 15:28). Other than that, all meats became lawful for Christians (1 Tim 4:3-5).

I love it when people do this. (Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah) Here is a partial list of the commandments that are not among those in Acts 15:
  • Do not murder
  • Do not steal
  • Do not bear false witness
  • Do not rape
  • Use honest scales
  • Love your neighbor
  • Honor your parents
Is it acceptable for Gentile Christians to violate these commandments? If those 4 in acts are the only ones we need to follow, then the logical conclusion of that is that we are allowed to do these other things. That obviously is not the case, and nobody here would ever claim that it was. It's just because people don't think things all the way through. The question being addressed in Acts 15 was not whether Gentile believers should obey the law. That was a given. The question was how much of it, if any, they were required to keep before they were considered saved. Some ("those of the circumcision") were saying that they had to obey the entire law, including the Pharisaic additions in the oral law, before they were considered saved. Others said that they only needed to have faith in God and Christ, and they could learn later how to obey His commandments. The 4 commandments they listed were those that the Gentiles were violating on a regular basis in their old religion, and which were considered serious enough that they had to stop doing them immediately, if they wanted to be counted among the believers. That passage goes on to say that Moses is taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. New believers were expected to go to the synagogues and learn the rest of the law over time.

The Ten Commandments became the Law of Christ or the Law of Love (Rom 13:8-10) and the sabbath -- being a "shadow" of God's eternal sabbath rest (Heb 4:9-11) -- was replaced with "the Lord's Day" (Rev 1:10) -- "the first day of the week" (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor 16:2) -- during which the Lord's Supper was observed and Christians brought their offerings to God.

Rev. 1:10 is the only verse in the only verse in the entire Bible that used the term "Lord's day". I don't think it's a good idea to base doctrines on a single verse. Besides, it only mentions that certain things happened on the Lord's day. It doesn't in any way imply that the Lord's day had replaced the Sabbath. In fact, it doesn't even define what day the Lord's day is. We only assume that it was Sunday, because that's the day we are used to calling the Lord's day. Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath, so it would not be illogical for John to have called the Sabbath "the Lord's day".

The TOG​
 
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Yes, Jesus did refer to the Torah as the "law of Moses", but when he said that, everyone understood that he mean the law that God gave through Moses. There was no difference in their minds between the law of God and the law of Moses. I was addressing JLB. He has some way (which he has so far refused to explain) of differentiating between the law of God and the law of Moses. That's why I used those terms the way I did.


The New Testament, including the part you quoted, was not written in a vacuum. It was written in a specific cultural and linguistic context. Our culture affects our language, and therefore our language can often only be understood, if we understand the culture that has molded it. Because we grew up in the culture and it is part of us, we never think about this, but we can run into problems when reading or listening to something from another culture, which we do not fully understand. For example, if I say to you "Most things are hay in hardship", you probably wouldn't have any idea what I was talking about. It's an Icelandic saying, and to understand it, you have to understand Icelandic culture and how Icelanders have lived for the past 1100 years. Without knowing what's behind it, you might think that hay represents something worthless, similar to what the Bible says about the grass that blooms today but withers tomorrow. Based on this understanding , you might conclude that the saying meant that in hardship, everything you don't absolutely need is worthless. While that is true, it's the exact opposite of what the saying means. Iceland has for most of it's history been a nation built primarily on farming and agriculture (and to a large extent still is). Because grass doesn't grow during the winter, farmers gather hay during the late summer and autumn, to feed their flocks through the winter months. Come next summer, they burn or otherwise dispose of any hay that is left in their barns, to make room for new hay. But when there were hardships, and there was little hay to be had, the farmers would use whatever they could, even if it was old hay or low quality, to keep their animals alive.

So, why the Icelandic lesson? Because most people reading the Bible are in the exact same position. They are reading something from a culture they don't understand, and the most common interpretation of that verse is one result. When we see the word "yoke" we think of something heavy, or in this context, difficult. Because we have been taught that the law was too difficult to keep (which actually contradicts what the Bible says), we assume that the word "yoke" refers to the law. But that isn't the case. In Hebrew, "yoke" or "burden" can refer to a specific interpretation of the law. Each rabbi would have his interpretation of the law, which he would teach to his disciples, and which he expected them to follow. This was called that rabbis yoke or burden, which he laid on his disciples. What is being referred to in Acts 15:10 is the Pharisees interpretation of the law, not the law itself. Jesus also told us his interpretation of the law, which he expected his disciples (and us today) to follow. He said his yoke was easy and his burden light. That was a reference to his interpretation of the law (which we know is the right interpretation).



I love it when people do this. It gives me a chance to show how utterly ridiculous they sound. Here is a partial list of the commandments that are not among those in Acts 15:
  • Do not murder
  • Do not steal
  • Do not bear false witness
  • Do not rape
  • Use honest scales
  • Love your neighbor
  • Honor your parents
Is it acceptable for Gentile Christians to violate these commandments? If those 4 in acts are the only ones we need to follow, then the logical conclusion of that is that we are allowed to do these other things. That obviously is not the case, and nobody here would ever claim that it was. It's just because people don't think things all the way through. The question being addressed in Acts 15 was not whether Gentile believers should obey the law. That was a given. The question was how much of it, if any, they were required to keep before they were considered saved. Some ("those of the circumcision") were saying that they had to obey the entire law, including the Pharisaic additions in the oral law, before they were considered saved. Others said that they only needed to have faith in God and Christ, and they could learn later how to obey His commandments. The 4 commandments they listed were those that the Gentiles were violating on a regular basis in their old religion, and which were considered serious enough that they had to stop doing them immediately, if they wanted to be counted among the believers. That passage goes on to say that Moses is taught every Sabbath in the synagogues. New believers were expected to go to the synagogues and learn the rest of the law over time.



Rev. 1:10 is the only verse in the only verse in the entire Bible that used the term "Lord's day". I don't think it's a good idea to base doctrines on a single verse. Besides, it only mentions that certain things happened on the Lord's day. It doesn't in any way imply that the Lord's day had replaced the Sabbath. In fact, it doesn't even define what day the Lord's day is. We only assume that it was Sunday, because that's the day we are used to calling the Lord's day. Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath, so it would not be illogical for John to have called the Sabbath "the Lord's day".

The TOG​


(Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah)


Are Christians required to be physically Circumcised and keep the law of Moses?


Yes or No?


JLB
 
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(Post removed, response to deleted post. Obadiah)
 
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No you don't ever answer the simple straight forward questions I ask you.

You say it's a trap (Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah)

I heard a joke (or whatever you want to call it) many many years ago. I have heard similar things since. It requires 2 people. Let's call them Andy and Bob. It went like this:

Andy: Are you in China? Answer yes or no.
Bob: No.
Andy: If you're not in China, then you must be somewhere else, right? Answer yes or no.
Bob: Yes.
Andy: If you're somewhere else, you can't be here, since you can't be both here and somewhere else at the same time.

Another set of carefully worded questions can prove that Bob is a piece of cheese.

Andy: Either you are a piece of cheese or you are not a piece of cheese, correct? Answer yes or no.
Bob: Yes.
Andy: Are you not a piece of cheese?

What Bob's answer is doesn't matter. If he says 'yes', then the question is interpreted as meaning the same as "Aren't you a piece of cheese?", but if he says 'no', then it is interpreted as " Are you "not a piece of cheese"? Since Bob says he is not "not a piece of cheese", he is a piece of cheese.

By wording questions correctly and demanding only yes or no answers or limiting possible answers in other ways, you can twist people's answers to mean what you want, no matter what they say or what they actually meant. I fell into the "you are not here" trap many years ago, and I won't fall into it again. Not only can you not trick me with that kind of joke, I won't let you set theological traps for me either. That's what you did and what you continue to do by demanding yes or no answers to questions that don't have such simple answers. You want to be able to twist my answers to suit your meanings, and I'm not going to allow you to do that.

The TOG​
 
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I have answered every question you asked me to, and gave you the scripture.

(Edited, ToS 2.4, personal insult. Obadiah)

You claimed that the commandment against theft existed before Moses. I asked you to show where in the Bible the commandment could be found, and said that the only two occurrences of the word "steal" before Exodus 20 were in reference to violations of Pagan laws. Please show me the post where you replied.

The TOG​
 
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I heard a joke (or whatever you want to call it) many many years ago. I have heard similar things since. It requires 2 people. Let's call them Andy and Bob. It went like this:

Andy: Are you in China? Answer yes or no.
Bob: No.
Andy: If you're not in China, then you must be somewhere else, right? Answer yes or no.
Bob: Yes.
Andy: If you're somewhere else, you can't be here, since you can't be both here and somewhere else at the same time.

Another set of carefully worded questions can prove that Bob is a piece of cheese.

Andy: Either you are a piece of cheese or you are not a piece of cheese, correct? Answer yes or no.
Bob: Yes.
Andy: Are you not a piece of cheese?

What Bob's answer is doesn't matter. If he says 'yes', then the question is interpreted as meaning the same as "Aren't you a piece of cheese?", but if he says 'no', then it is interpreted as " Are you "not a piece of cheese"? Since Bob says he is not "not a piece of cheese", he is a piece of cheese.

By wording questions correctly and demanding only yes or no answers or limiting possible answers in other ways, you can twist people's answers to mean what you want, no matter what they say or what they actually meant. I fell into the "you are not here" trap many years ago, and I won't fall into it again. Not only can you not trick me with that kind of joke, I won't let you set theological traps for me either. That's what you did and what you continue to do by demanding yes or no answers to questions that don't have such simple answers. You want to be able to twist my answers to suit your meanings, and I'm not going to allow you to do that.

The TOG​

that is a logical fallacy, I cant remember the name of it.
 
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