Is The Law of God Still in Force Today ?/Matthew 5:17,18

[reba]

Closed for a trip to the woodshed

 

[IwreckNsow]

Is it a sin to eat Pork?


Yes or No?


JLB

Hi JLB. Yes

2 COR. 6 [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This NEW TESTAMENT scripture tells us as believers we are not to touch the unclean thing.

ISAIAH 52 [9] Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath REDEEMED Jerusalem. [10] The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the SALVATION of our God. [11] Depart ye, depart ye, GO YE OUT from thence, TOUCH NO UNCLEAN THING; GO YE OUT OF THE MIDST OF HER; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. [12] For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

Redeemed. Salvation. Words you would find in the new testament concerning Jesus. And as is always the case, you will find whats being said in the new testament has already been said in the old or prophecied.

LEVITICUS 20 [22] Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. [23] And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. [24] But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH HAVE SEPARATED YOU from other people. [25] YE SHALL THEREFORE PUT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CLEAN BEASTS AND UNCLEAN, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. [26] And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, THAT YE SHOULD BE MINE.

Be ye separate.

DEUT. 14 [8] And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Everywhere theres lots of piggies living piggy lives.......

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

The above scripture is speaking of the “Day of the Lord”. Whats prophecied about that day will come to pass as written

 

[Deborah13]

Hi JLB. Yes

2 COR. 6 [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF THE LIVING GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This NEW TESTAMENT scripture tells us as believers we are not to touch the unclean thing.

ISAIAH 52 [9] Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath REDEEMED Jerusalem. [10] The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the SALVATION of our God. [11] Depart ye, depart ye, GO YE OUT from thence, TOUCH NO UNCLEAN THING; GO YE OUT OF THE MIDST OF HER; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. [12] For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

Redeemed. Salvation. Words you would find in the new testament concerning Jesus. And as is always the case, you will find whats being said in the new testament has already been said in the old or prophecied.

LEVITICUS 20 [22] Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. [23] And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. [24] But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH HAVE SEPARATED YOU from other people. [25] YE SHALL THEREFORE PUT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CLEAN BEASTS AND UNCLEAN, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. [26] And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, THAT YE SHOULD BE MINE.

Be ye separate.

DEUT. 14 [8] And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Everywhere theres lots of piggies living piggy lives.......

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

The above scripture is speaking of the “Day of the Lord”. Whats prophecied about that day will come to pass as written

Jesus said, that it is not what a man puts in this mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his mouth (heart).
Do you believe that the council at Jerusalem made a decision that would cause God's children to sin?

 

[TOG]

Jesus said, that it is not what a man puts in this mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his mouth (heart).
Do you believe that the council at Jerusalem made a decision that would cause God's children to sin?

The Jerusalem council didn't make any rulings on the dietary laws. In fact, three out of the 4 commandments they sent the Gentiles were dietary laws - don't eat blood, don't eat what is strangled and don't eat what has been sacrificed to idols. It wasn't about which parts of the law were valid and which weren't, but about which parts Gentiles had to obey immediately upon conversion. They could learn the rest later.

The TOG​

 

[smaller]

Jesus said, that it is not what a man puts in this mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his mouth (heart).
Do you believe that the council at Jerusalem made a decision that would cause God's children to sin?

Very good.

Nevertheless IF someone thinks it's a sin to eat pork, then to them, IT IS. Sin is aroused by resistance to the law in the conscience of the person viewing the matters. If we see the laws of food as Jesus saw them, it's not an issue to such. But others of a weaker faith, it may be a problem.

Romans 14:
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Deborah13]

Very good.

Nevertheless IF someone thinks it's a sin to eat pork, then to them, IT IS. Sin is aroused by resistance to the law in the conscience of the person viewing the matters. If we see the laws of food as Jesus saw them, it's not an issue to such. But others of a weaker faith, it may be a problem.

Romans 14:
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Agreed. I believe that God deals with individual hearts in different ways.
So if it is in the heart of one to not eat then he should not eat.

 

[IwreckNsow]

Jesus said, that it is not what a man puts in this mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of his mouth (heart).

(Edit, ToS 2.4, disrespect. Obadiah.)

Matthew 15:16-20 (KJV)
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Wasnt talkin bout eatin pig. He was talkin bout eating with unwashed hands

 

[IwreckNsow]

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord

Its the Day of the Lord scripture above that settles it in my mind.

 

[Willie T]

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord

Its the Day of the Lord scripture above that settles it in my mind.

I KNEW it! The Bacon Cheeseburger will be my undoing.

(Love your Screen Name)

 

[TOG]

Wasnt talkin bout eatin pig. He was talkin bout eating with unwashed hands

That's right. And that hand washing had nothing to do with soap and water. It was a ritual cleansing invented by the Pharisees and had nothing to do with any command in the Bible.

The TOG​

 

[Shimshon]

That's right. And that hand washing had nothing to do with soap and water. It was a ritual cleansing invented by the Pharisees and had nothing to do with any command in the Bible.

The TOG​

And that wouldn't be correct, as Exodus 30 commands the creation of a washing basin within the temple that was to be used before the preists come near to minister 'food' offerings to the Lord.

The Bronze Basin
17 The LORD said to Moses, 18 "You shall also make a basin of bronze, with its stand of bronze, for washing. You shall put it between the tent of meeting and the altar, and you shall put water in it, 19 with which Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet. 20 When they go into the tent of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister, to burn a food offering to the LORD, they shall wash with water, so that they may not die. 21 They shall wash their hands and their feet, so that they may not die. It shall be a statute forever to them, even to him and to his offspring throughout their generations."

 

[Deborah13]

The Jerusalem council didn't make any rulings on the dietary laws. In fact, three out of the 4 commandments they sent the Gentiles were dietary laws - don't eat blood, don't eat what is strangled and don't eat what has been sacrificed to idols. It wasn't about which parts of the law were valid and which weren't, but about which parts Gentiles had to obey immediately upon conversion. They could learn the rest later.

The TOG​

Personally, I believe the things that were listed by the counsel were things that were promoted in the pagan religions that the gentiles were coming out of and that's why they were commanded not to do those things.
So I don't think they had anything to do with what was valid in the Law and what wasn't either.

I can't find scripture or writings that support the idea that the gentiles were commanded to go to the synagogue to learn Torah from unbelievers.
There were plenty of Jewish believers to learn from, including Paul himself.
It appears to me Paul is saying that if one wanted to know what Moses taught they could go to the synagogue and find out.
If it were sin to not eat kosher, Paul would have told them/us. He listed many sins more than once but you don't see these things in Paul's lists of sin.

 

[TOG]

And that wouldn't be correct, as Exodus 30 commands the creation of a washing basin within the temple that was to be used before the preists come near to minister 'food' offerings to the Lord.

The Bronze Basin
17 The LORD said to Moses, 18 "You shall also make a basin of bronze, with its stand of bronze, for washing. You shall put it between the tent of meeting and the altar, and you shall put water in it, 19 with which Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet. 20 When they go into the tent of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister, to burn a food offering to the LORD, they shall wash with water, so that they may not die. 21 They shall wash their hands and their feet, so that they may not die. It shall be a statute forever to them, even to him and to his offspring throughout their generations."

That refers to sacrifices. Show me the verse where it says everyone is required to ritually wash their hands before eating an ordinary meal. That is what the issue was, not the sacrifices.

The TOG​

 

[Shimshon]

That refers to sacrifices. Show me the verse where it says everyone is required to ritually wash their hands before eating an ordinary meal. That is what the issue was, not the sacrifices.

The TOG​

It's where the tradition comes from. You claimed "It was a ritual cleansing invented by the Pharisees and had nothing to do with any command in the Bible". You implied it was fabricated out of thin air by the pharisees. Nice goal post move though.

 

[TOG]

If it were sin to not eat kosher, Paul would have told them/us. He listed many sins more than once but you don't see these things in Paul's lists of sin.

If God's commandments had been abolished, he would have told them, but he didn't. The reason he didn't mention it was because nothing had changed.

The TOG​

 

[TOG]

It's where the tradition comes from. You claimed "It was a ritual cleansing invented by the Pharisees and had nothing to do with any command in the Bible". You implied it was fabricated out of thin air by the pharisees. Nice goal post move though.

No, I didn't imply it. I said it out right. Every tradition is based on something. That's irrelevant. The Bible doesn't tell us anywhere to wash our hands ritually before eating. That was a human invention. If you think I'm wrong, then show me the verse that talks about washing our hands before eating ordinary meals.

The TOG​

 

[Deborah13]

Just keep reading that scripture

Matthew 15:16-20 (KJV)
16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Wasnt talkin bout eatin pig. He was talkin bout eating with unwashed hands

You see v20 as the point Jesus is making.
I see v 17-18 as the point Jesus is making.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I know all this, thus you have made my point about the Ten Commandments.

Where in scripture does it say that the Lord's Day is the first day of the week? And if it is not considered a sabbath then why do so many Christians teach that it is a day of rest and people shouldn't work on that day?

We believe that The Lords day is on each Saturday not Sunday, which is a day of rest.

Exodus 20:8-12, Luke 4:16 , Acts 17:2

 

[Deborah13]

If God's commandments had been abolished, he would have told them, but he didn't. The reason he didn't mention it was because nothing had changed.

The TOG​

They would have had no way of knowing what Moses Law said.

Paul and the others give lists of sins that are in Moses Law but never mention, eat kosher, put tzitzits on the 4 corners of your garments, don't sleep in the same bed with your wife or sit on the same seat she sits on for a couple of weeks out of each month, etc.
Why would they point out obvious sin like murder, fornication, even backbiting but not point out these things if they are thou shall / shall not sins too?

 

[Deborah13]

We believe that The Lords day is on each Saturday not Sunday, which is a day of rest.

Exodus 20:8-12, Luke 4:16 , Acts 17:2

Acts 17:2 Yes it was Paul's custom to go to the synagogues of the unbelieving Jews to witness about Jesus. Some believed him, some did not.
This is not talking about believers getting together to worship.