Is the Ten Commandment Abolished?

[change]

It is evident form the scriptures that the law of the creator is still binding. Even in the new earth the Sabbath will be kept. I believe if there is no law there can be no judgement.

What do you think?

 

[Tina]

.

Are you a Seventh-Day Adventist ?

 

[Nick]

It is evident form the scriptures that the law of the creator is still binding. Even in the new earth the Sabbath will be kept. I believe if there is no law there can be no judgement.

What do you think?

The Bible (ie God's Word) does not agree with you there. Have a read of both Galations and Hebrews. They will show you that the Law has no place in salvation. Sure, the old law and the ten commandments are good to obey, but we must remember that salvation by God's Grace through Christ's death and resurrection comes first, then obeying HIs commandments in Love and respect comes after, as a natural response.
Jesus fulfilled the Law by obeying the entire Law. Salvation CAN be achieved through the Law IF one obeys the entire Law like Jesus did. But since we cannot do that, God in His Love and by His Grace gave us the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

Have a think over these passages from Galations:

3:1-14:
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a] 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

5:1-12:
1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. 11Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[change]

Greetings to you, in the name of the creator of the universe.

Firstly:

If there is no law there is no sin – “By the law is the knowledge of sin†(Romans 3:20). “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet†(Romans 7:7). The Bible’s definition of sin is – “Sin is the transgression of the law†(1 John 3:4). Sin is the breaking of the creator’s law.

Secondly:

Galatians 3:13 says we are redeemed from the curse of the law. We are not redeemed from the law itself, but the curse of the law, which is death (Romans 6:23) – “For the wages of sin (breaking God’s law) is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord.†Christ tasted “death for every man†(Hebrew 2:9). Jesus redeemed all mankind from the curse of the law (death) and in its place provided everlasting life.

Thirdly:

Does faith exempt us from keeping the laws of God? “By the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight†(Romans 3:20) No one can be saved by keeping the law. Salvation comes only through grace (an undeserved favor), a free gift from God through Christ. we receive this gift by faith, not by works (Ephesians 2: 8,9) The law only serves as a mirror to point out sins in our lives. Cleansing and forgiveness from sins come only through Christ. “For sin (breaking God’s law – 1 John 3:4) shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin (break God’s law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? GOD FORBID†(Roman 6:14,15). “Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea we establish the law†(Roman 3:31).

Not because we are justified by faith that does not mean we don’t have a work to perform – “faith without works is dead†(James 2:20).

May god add his understanding to your search of the Holy Scriptures.
ps, I did not say salvation comes from keeping the law. We need to "obey the entire law like Jesus did"

 

[watchman F]

To all who think the 10 commandment are done away with. What commandment should we break?

 

[Nick]

Greetings to you, in the name of the creator of the universe.

Firstly:

If there is no law there is no sin – “By the law is the knowledge of sin†(Romans 3:20). “I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet†(Romans 7:7). The Bible’s definition of sin is – “Sin is the transgression of the law†(1 John 3:4). Sin is the breaking of the creator’s law.

Secondly:

Galatians 3:13 says we are redeemed from the curse of the law. We are not redeemed from the law itself, but the curse of the law, which is death (Romans 6:23) – “For the wages of sin (breaking God’s law) is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our lord.†Christ tasted “death for every man†(Hebrew 2:9). Jesus redeemed all mankind from the curse of the law (death) and in its place provided everlasting life.

Thirdly:

Does faith exempt us from keeping the laws of God? “By the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight†(Romans 3:20) No one can be saved by keeping the law. Salvation comes only through grace (an undeserved favor), a free gift from God through Christ. we receive this gift by faith, not by works (Ephesians 2: 8,9) The law only serves as a mirror to point out sins in our lives. Cleansing and forgiveness from sins come only through Christ. “For sin (breaking God’s law – 1 John 3:4) shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin (break God’s law), because we are not under the law, but under grace? GOD FORBID†(Roman 6:14,15). “Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea we establish the law†(Roman 3:31).

Not because we are justified by faith that does not mean we don’t have a work to perform – “faith without works is dead†(James 2:20).

May god add his understanding to your search of the Holy Scriptures.
ps, I did not say salvation comes from keeping the law. We need to "obey the entire law like Jesus did"

I agree with all of that. Perhaps I misunderstood you. I'm sorry.

 

[Joshua Nyamache]

The Ten Commandments will never be abolished. Christians should always adhere to them all the time. The Bible is not contradicting itself. It is us who contradict it. :yes

Matthew 5:17 ‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfil.19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[GeorgeRollins]

“Sure, the old law and the ten commandments are good to obey, but we must remember that salvation by God's Grace through Christ's death and resurrection comes first, then obeying HIs commandments in Love and respect comes after, as a natural response.â€
Perfectly stated! This is exactly right! You have no business as a Christian trying to live up to the 10 commandments. Anyone who tries to live to one must live to all, of where there are over 600! Jesus’ crucifiction and your faith in Him, freed you of all sin, past present and future! Stop trying to beat yourself up for your sins! That was one of Martin Luther’s big hang-ups.. he never figured this out.
“Not because we are justified by faith that does not mean we don’t have a work to perform – “faith without works is dead†(James 2:20).â€
Works do NOT make for salvation. That is by Grace alone! Works are the fruit of the saved. What James was saying is that the saved will have good works. If one does not, then he is not truly saved.
†To all who think the 10 commandment are done away with. What commandment should we break?â€
There are way more than ten. If you try and keep any of them you’ll break them for sure. If you keep Jesus’ commandments you will be fine. “Love your God with all your heart, and soul and mind, and love others as you love yourselvesâ€. If you do these two, all the others are covered. Legalism is a sure fire road to failure. You will still be saved, but you’re presents to bestow upon the Lord when you’re there standing in front of him will be sparse, my brother!
“Matthew 5:17 ‘Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfil.19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.â€
What I believe he is saying here, is that the Jews, had a system of grading the 613 commandments, some were more minor than others. He’s saying that if you even break one of the very minor Jewish laws (remember, he’s talking to Jews now, there were no Christians yet) you’re guilty of breaking them all. An impossibility!

 

[GeorgeRollins]

It is evident form the scriptures that the law of the creator is still binding. Even in the new earth the Sabbath will be kept. I believe if there is no law there can be no judgement.

What do you think?

The "Sabbath" is a "Saturday, so unless you're going to Church on Saturday you're already breaking that one every week.

Besides the fact that Jesus himself told the Pharisee that what one did on the "Sabbath" was between him and God. He used the example of David's troops taking the bread from the sacrifice on the Sabbath.

I'm not a reformist, so I feel there are ways to be removed from the book of life, but the 613 commandments of the Jewish Law are not them.

That being said, EVERY action we make sure be measured by "Will this bring honor and glory to God?" If not, don't do it.

 

[Ashua]

The thread starter is actually right. Its a common misconception that the Law of Moses is done away with in and of itself. Paul says in Romans "What then? Shall we make the void law through faith? God forbid we establish the law." David said that the Law of the LORD was spiritual and converted the soul.

The Sabbath day observation is not even Jewish in origin --- It was given to Adam. The Sabbath day command predates the Torah. Just as Murder and theft and adultery were well established before the Law of Moses. (Joseph and Pottifer's wife proves they knew adultery was against the will of God.)
The New Jersusalem will re-institute the Sabbath. This much is clearly expressed in the scriptures.

What Christ did was remove the record of our transgressing the Law, not the law itself. Where there is no record to bear witness against us; the entirety of the evidence of our offenses blotted away and covered by the blood of the Lamb there can be no judgment. The Law was and is a delight. There is nothing wrong with the law and Christ said those who keep and teach others to keep the law will be great in the Kingdom that is to come. There is nothing imperfect with the commands of the Torah. The problem arises when we use the Torah for other than its conceptual design ---- As a means of salvation, instead of as a schoolmaster to convince us of our need of Christ. The Law is independent from salvation, but has its place. The Galatian error was in attempting to achieve perfection in this life by attaining to the Law. Paul argues that they should not take on the Law as in so doing, they must keep it perfectly if they wish to be justified by the law. Paul himself continued to keep the law (See Acts) When Christ returns, the fullness of Jeremiah 31:31 will come into play and the Law of God will be written on the hearts of men that they should do them without any reservation in genuine happiness forever with Messiah in the New Heaven.



There is also one small problem those who feel the Law is done away with totally.

Ill find specific verses if I need to, but throughout the Old Testament (particularly the Torah), God gave Israel different commands or laws that he stated should be done "throughout your generations forever" or "an eternal statue" and so on.

How do you reckon this? God cannot change his word. God does not change.What then do we make of this? As I said, the Law of Moses stands. Salvation is by the promise to Abraham and his seed fulfilled in Christ. Moses' law came 430 years after the promise to Abraham, so it cannot void or overwrite the conditions of the promise. The Law cannot be bound as a condition after God gave his word of Abraham, so the Law's purpose is of another kind. It is the will of God for how men should live their lives. It pleases God if done in genuine faith and glad willing; and not in the dead obligation of the pharisee checking off his list.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The curse of the law was death. The blessings of the law was life and blessings.
When Christ gave himself, he redeemed us from THE CURSE OF THE LAW Not the Law itself, but the CURSE of the Law. So if you take the death and cursing out of Deuteronomy 30:19, you are left with blessings and life. When gentiles do the things contained IN the LAW those having no law are a LAW UNTO THEMSELVES showing the work of the LAW written on their hearts ---which also lines up with Jeremiah 31:31's declaration of the New Covenant. The Law lost the power in it's bite, but the blessings thereof still remain fully intact for the glad reaping of the willing worker.

 

[bleeverhal]

Jesus said those commandments (and more) are summed up by two:

To love God with all your being.
To love your neighbor as you love yourself.

If you do these, you won't be breaking any of the ten commandments.

 

[PouringRain]

Jesus said those commandments (and more) are summed up by two:

To love God with all your being.
To love your neighbor as you love yourself.

If you do these, you won't be breaking any of the ten commandments.

Agreed. But not just the 10-- all the laws fall within these two.

 

[PouringRain]

All the laws?

even dietary and capital punishment?

Matthew 22:34-40
But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

 

[PouringRain]

So by fulfilling the directives in those verses a christian is essentially fulfilling all the laws of the tanakh?

Your question reminds me of the story of Mohammed being told he could pray five times a day and the reward would count for the fifty. (Good story, btw.) I say this to say that your question is looking at the laws from an Islamic perspective, and essentially also a Jewish one. One of rewards and punishments. When Jesus gave his answer as he did, he was essentially talking about a difference in how one observes the law. It becomes a shift in the mindset. Instead of a strict adherence to the law based upon rewards/ punishments, the law was to be obeyed out of love-- love for God and love for man. Jesus was pointing out the real purpose for the law and the real reason one should follow it. Observance of the law could be so rigid, that in obeying the law could actually cause someone to violate the principles of love for God and love for man. This is one major place where the hypocrisy arose that Jesus often pointed out to them. (I just wanted to point out that the hypocrisy lies in man's interpretation of God's laws, not in the laws of God.)

But, back to your question.... observance of the law should be out of love, (for God and man), because if you love then you are obedient. In Islam, you recognize love also.... love is the head of the bird and his wings are hope and fear. Christians also have hope and fear, but for the Christian it is ultimately love that should be the driving force. That is what Jesus was trying to point out. If you strictly obey the law only out of hope and fear (rewards/ punishments), then you risk violating the very laws that you are trying to keep. It is like the Jew who will not help the dying gentile on the sabbath for fear of breaking the law-- yet in the process he has already broken it. If you put aside the rigid adherence, and operate in love, then there is no condemnation. (This would probably make the most sense to someone who knows a lot about the Jewish laws.... or rather, their interpretation of the laws, which essentially is their law.)

The fear of God is a good things, but fear in itself can be a bad thing. I am sure we all can agree on how fear can be debilitating, and can affect ones health-- emotionally, spiritually, physically, etc. Someone with excessive fears can literally be stopped dead in their tracks and hindered from living a normal life. But fear can also be a good thing. Fear is a survival mechanism. Yes, we should fear God, but God does not want this fear to become debilitating. Let's talk Islam, since that is your religion and you know most about it. I see questions all the time that are wrought with fear. "Does swallowing my saliva nullify my fast?" "If I put cream on my face and some got on my lips and then I licked them, does this nullify my fast?" "What should I do if I am in a public place and music is playing?" I could go on listing things for hours. For some, there is a constant fear. It becomes debilitating. They ask for urgent help, because they are terrified that they completely messed up and will be punished. God does not want man living in a state of constant fear. If you love God, and keep his commands, then there is no fear.

In fact, if an individual operated completely out of love for God and love for man, there would be no need for the law. For example, if murder and killing others did not exist, would there be a need to tell man not to do it? The law exists because there is a need for it. (Unfortunately, the vast majority of individuals do not operate out of love for God and man.)

That is my long answer to your short question. (I could have made it longer!) I hope I made some sense. LOL

 

[n25an]

Good Points Stated By All...

Still For Me...

I have found the ten commandments to be gods way of protecting me from very bad things...

Sure we are under love...

that still does not negate the law of gravity... that things are attracted to the earth...

Or the moral law...

that if we do wrong... we stir the ire of gods judgment
and we harden our hearts...
and we destroy lives...
in many cases not just our own

it isn't a question if we they hold sway in our lives or not...

But are we stupid enough to ignore the power of their reality...

 

[Pard]

We are under grace. The Law is an impossible thing to follow completely. God meant the Laws to be this way. It is only through His grace (bestowed upon man by Christ Jesus) that a man can overcome this wall (the Law) that separates man from God.

The moral laws (ten commandments) ought to be followed, because they are written on the hearts of everyone. They are instinctual to us, just as sniffing butts is instinctual to a dog . These 10 moral laws are also known as Natural Laws (seen in a number of post-Renaissance books on philosophy, and also in the Declaration of Independence).

There is Scientific Law. These are things such as gravity, inertia, friction, ect., ect.. Scientists (well physicists and the like) make their living trying to discover these "invisible" laws that bind all of God's creation together.

There is the Law as defined in the Torah (it goes by many names, you can pick which you like to use). These laws were meant as a way for man to show FAITH and LOVE towards God. Jews abstain from eating pork because they LOVE God more than they love bacon. These laws are the impossible ones I spoke of above and they do not apply to Christians because Jesus came and put us under grace.

 

[herald]

No, they are not.

 

[PouringRain]

Thank you for the explanation - This justification for the abolishment of the OT laws makes sense to me, and I can see the rationale a christian may use when chomping down on juicy piece of delicious bacon (yes, I thoroughly miss pork bacon, the beef kind is not an adequate substitute).

As for the part about Love and adhearance to the Law- I completely agree with you - many Muslims ask the dumbest questions and have the biggest fears, but while they worry and worry about weather or not their wudhu was valid 3 months ago and if they have to make up their prayers for that day, they fail to take into account Allahs Mercy. For some Muslims - their obedience to Allah is based on fear - and this makes for a person with weak faith, and someone who is easily tempted to sin and break the law they fear. While the Muslim who Loves Allah has strong faith - because he fulfills the law, not out of fear of punishment, but in order to please his LORD.

My post was not justification for abolishment of the laws. If that was the conclusion you arrived at then I think you may have misunderstood part of my post. ALL the laws are within those two. Do you think that disobeying a law of God is demonstrating love for him? One who loves God, also hears and obeys his commands. Love is not justification to disobey; on the contrary, it is the rationale for obedience. (BTW, try turkey bacon. It is healthier than beef. :D )

I agree with your second paragraph completely. Punishment aside, the "reward" aspect that drives some people is somethign I see in both Muslims and Christians alike-- and it has always bothered me. LOL Those are the people who operate out of rewards rather than love. I only bring it up, because it is the flip side of those who operate highly out of fear. LOL

 

[Bob Carabbio]

"It is evident form the scriptures that the law of the creator is still binding. Even in the new earth the Sabbath will be kept. I believe if there is no law there can be no judgement."

The Christian IS NOT UNDER THE LAW - period, we've already been judged by it, and have died to ourselves to be raised in "newness of life" in Jesus. Since we're DEAD to it, it has no further power over us.

However, Jesus said that there are two essential things we SHOULD do - i.e. Love the Lord, and Love your neighbor. The first 4 commandments deal with loving the Lord, and relating to HIM properly.

AND the last 6 deal with loving your neighbor - simple as that.

Last time I checked it's NOT O.K. for a Christian despise his parents, murder his neighbor, lie about him, Monkey with his wife, steal his stuff, or burn with envy at what he's got.

And "Loving the Lord with you whole heart, Mind, Soul, and all your strength is still a REALLY good idea if you want to grow in the Lord, don'cha know.

 

[rstrats]

GeorgeRollins,

re: “The ‘Sabbath’ is a ‘Saturday...â€

Except in much of Europe where the seventh day of the week is labeled “Sunday†on their calendars.