Is the Ten Commandment Abolished?

[Nathan]

Ok, this is the heart of this thread isn't it Brother Nathaniel? I mean.....it's so simple.

If we know our Gospels and we know our Jesus and we follow His two commandments then everything else falls into place, as long as you are sincere in your faith.

We dont need OT written law. You dont even need to read the OT.

I just dont understand why this guy is coming here and muddying the waters.

Think about new Christians and how they read this thread. It started off with a bunch of guys saying outright that we needed to study the OT to understand Jesus and His commandments and that the Old written law was still applicable to Christians today. Then a few good Christians came in and battled for the truth like Brother Drew and yourself and a coupla of the mods. And the noise from the OT fanboys all but dried up. They are gone.

But now this confusion from Elijah just keeps raining down. I dont know what he's trying to do but I just dont like it. Christianity is not cryptic. It's simple and easy and he's making it out to be some secret that we need to unlock and only he has the key.

Maybe it was the thread title....just worded wrongly that makes him keep comming back......dunno. What we've clearly been dabating is >> Are Christians under the written law.

It's a simple no. The ten commandments are effectively abolished because we dont need to go there and read up on the laws becasue we fulfill the law AUTOMATICALLY as a by product of Gods grace through faith in Christ. This is not rocket science. As long as we sincerely walk in true faith.

If your talking about people professing to be Christian but showing no fruit then thats something entirely different. Thats false salvation. Thats a different debate.


((sigh))


Doc.

I hear your heart. I do. And I do agree, but I think that it is a good thing to read the O.T. It might not be imperitvie to Salvation. But ohhhh does it ever beautifully illustrate Him.

I seriously think it is a language barrier with Elijah. I can discern from his post on other threads that he is not trying to hide anything, he just simply cannot seem to fully grasp the english language.

It can muddy the water. However light will always shine through darkness, and as long as there are people who will let His light shine there will be truth present. What would be sad is if no one refuted the disception and light was not present on this forum.

He does make a person dig, but I just do not get the full idea that he is intentionally being deceptive. It can be taken that way, but until we know more we should give him the benifit of the doubt.

 

[Elijah674]

Do you think you are a Prophet?

Do you think Christians should be studying and then obeying Old Testamnet written law? I'd appreciate just a simple yes or no just so I can figure out your position.

Surely! Any Born Again Christian would Loveingly Obey these 10 Commandments!
Psalm19

[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
[2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
[3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
[4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
[5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
[6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
[7] The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
[8] The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
[9] The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
[10] More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
[11] Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
[12] Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
[13] Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.

And the New Covenant?? 1 John 3:4 [still defines what Law is Broken!] 'Whoever committeth sin[trangresseth also the law]; for [sin is the transgression of the law.']

Then there are these of 1 John 2:4 who come on like gangbusters! :twopistols

And O.T. Law, what law do you think that satan broke before the N.T. ??

--Elijah

PS: And no on that prophet one.

 

[Strangelove]

Ok Elijah.

I want you to list ALL of the written laws that you kept last week to Gods satisfaction.

Then I want you to list ALL laws that you think Christians should be keeping day to day.

 

[Elijah674]

Ok Elijah.

I want you to list ALL of the written laws that you kept last week to Gods satisfaction.

Then I want you to list ALL laws that you think Christians should be keeping day to day.

First off, I do not think that you are ready to be baptised as stated before by me, so why would I bow to your 'command'??

But for the forum's perhaps other 'babes' that you tell me that are on board, let me give my testimony.
As Paul (an ex/killer) testified in Phil. 3:12-16 so do I. In exact Belief & Conviction. I do ad a couple more verses of Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 if one believes Christ Word?

And all 'salvational' laws you ask to be listed? There are only ten that God Himself 'Spoke' & penned in stone, & then recreated in the Born Again heart & mind. And see the test of Isa. 8:20.

--Elijah

 

[Strangelove]

First off, I do not think that you are ready to be baptised as stated before by me, so why would I bow to your 'command'??

What makes you think you can baptise me Elijah? There is only one baptizm I need and that is in the truth of God's Word and NOT by any man.

How utterly egotistical to think that you could do such a thing for people with your own words.

But for the forum's perhaps other 'babes' that you tell me that are on board, let me give my testimony.
As Paul (an ex/killer) testified in Phil. 3:12-16 so do I. In exact Belief & Conviction.

Phil. 3:12-16 doesnt say anything about 10 commandments it just to follow Christ. As in His 2 commandments of love so that doesn't help your case.

I do ad a couple more verses of Phil. 4:13

4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Doesn't help your case in the slightest​

& 2 Cor. 12:9 if one believes Christ Word?

Yeah...I believe Christs Word. And it completely contradicts what you are trying to teach:

12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my
strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I
rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest
upon me.​

Grace is sufficient. No following of written laws required.

And all 'salvational' laws you ask to be listed? There are only ten that God Himself 'Spoke' & penned in stone, & then recreated in the Born Again heart & mind. And see the test of Isa. 8:20.
--Elijah

Yeah He spoke and penned them to the Hebrews and neither them nor us are subject to them now. We have Christ now.

Tell me.....why do you feel the need to add things to Christ dying on the cross??

 

[Elijah674]

What makes you think you can baptise me Elijah? There is only one baptizm I need and that is in the truth of God's Word and NOT by any man.

How utterly egotistical to think that you could do such a thing for people with your own words.



Phil. 3:12-16 doesnt say anything about 10 commandments it just to follow Christ. As in His 2 commandments of love so that doesn't help your case.

4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.​

Doesn't help your case in the slightest​

Yeah...I believe Christs Word. And it completely contradicts what you are trying to teach:

12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my
strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I
rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest
upon me.​

Grace is sufficient. No following of written laws required.



Yeah He spoke and penned them to the Hebrews and neither them nor us are subject to them now. We have Christ now.

Tell me.....why do you feel the need to add things to Christ dying on the cross??

Titus
[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

--Elijah

 

[Nathan]

Hi Elijah. Did you get my P.M.?

 

[Strangelove]

Titus
[9] But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[10] A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[11] Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

--Elijah

What a convenient way out of the debate.

Are you calling me a heretic for following Jesus' 2 commandments and not OT written law? How dare you sir.

 

[Elijah674]

Hi Elijah. Did you get my P.M.?

I sent one back. And that is according to the truth that the 10 approve of, huh?;)

 

[zone]

OK: Who here knows what this lawyer dude is talking about? And
I suggest that some are far worst than this lawyer who tempted Christ? But how did he 'tempt' Christ? Matt. 22 (and the thread question??)

[35] Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, [tempting him], and saying,
[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(but from here on it does not sound like any one of them had been Abolished see Isa. 42:21!)
[37] Jesus said unto him, [Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.]
[38] This is [the first and great] commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these [two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.]


OK: The Law of God that He alone penned, and put into a Born Again heart + MIND, or was it to be ABOLISHED like the thread question asks, or as many others teach for truth? I personally find in these following scriptures a [God that DOES NOT CHANGE]. As He documents in Mal. 3:6 + with it even being stated that it was Christ in Heb. 13:8 that [IS THE SAME FOREVER]!

OK: Lets see Peter with his THREE TIME VISION mind you, and still he would not accept it as it sounded! Why?? And how did he put God FIRST as above, and that was mandatory?? Read it & see if you can see why Peter did not believe that it meant what most of the Rev. 17:1-5 ones even teach & believe today about the 'common or unclean' beasts & creeping things. Sure Peter [saw these prohibited things in the vision], (and you can only read of them in Lev. 11) But why was he not going to eat them?? I suggest that if one can get the bottom/line truth here, he just might understand more truth?

Acts 10:9 (in part)

'... Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
[10] And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
[11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

[12] Wherein were [all manner] of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
[13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
[14] But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for [I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean].

[15] And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
[16] This was [done thrice:] and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
(OK: was Peter putting God First in Commandment of Obedience?? Your answer will tell just about where you are at in Scriptual Knowledge! Dan. 12:4)

[17] Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, ..'

But you all know, huh? And by the way, do you complain to God for not making this more clear??

--Elijah

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(but from here on it does not sound like any one of them had been Abolished see Isa. 42:21!)
[37] Jesus said unto him, [Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.]
[38] This is [the first and great] commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these [two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.]


hi elijah

yes, after we received the Holy spirit, who sheds the Agape Love of (from) God in our hearts, we love Him, and are able to Love Him and our neighbours as best we can.

but the above passage you used is ALWAYS used to legitimize Law Keeping.

please go back and read the context.

the man comes to Jesus and says he has kept the whole Law from youth. but then he asks, what thing i I LACK?

according to legalism (Law-Keeping pleases God), Jesus should have said : good job! you're in.

but He didn't. He told the man to sell all he had, give it to the poor (not the things that would gain favour or salvation in itself), AND FOLLOW ME Jesus said.

that's the key.

the young man said he kept all the Law.

Jesus said you must give up everything AND FOLLOW ME. the young man went away and did not.

so that passage where Jesus describes the Law and the prophets (summing them all up into 2), He is using there to tell the man that EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE DONE THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NOT GAIN ETERNAL LIFE.

even born again believers are unable to Love and obey God with all their hearts, minds and souls TO HIS PERFECT STANDARD, nor treat their neighbours in the PERFECT WAY God established in His Law.

But Jesus did do those things perfectly.

so please, in the future don't use that passage to say we are able to fulfill the Law by doing those 2 things: even we can STILL not do that according as God REQUIRES. we are covered and Justified by what JESUS DID CONCERNING THOSE THINGS.

i do not mean to say we are not to strive all our lives for those things. just that that passage PROVES THE OPPOSITE of what you want it to say.

zone.

 

[Elijah674]

[36] Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(but from here on it does not sound like any one of them had been Abolished see Isa. 42:21!)
[37] Jesus said unto him, [Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.]
[38] This is [the first and great] commandment.
[39] And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[40] On these [two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.]


hi elijah

yes, after we received the Holy spirit, who sheds the Agape Love of (from) God in our hearts, we love Him, and are able to Love Him and our neighbours as best we can.

but the above passage you used is ALWAYS used to legitimize Law Keeping.

please go back and read the context.

the man comes to Jesus and says he has kept the whole Law from youth. but then he asks, what thing i I LACK?

according to legalism (Law-Keeping pleases God), Jesus should have said : good job! you're in.

but He didn't. He told the man to sell all he had, give it to the poor (not the things that would gain favour or salvation in itself), AND FOLLOW ME Jesus said.

that's the key.

the young man said he kept all the Law.

Jesus said you must give up everything AND FOLLOW ME. the young man went away and did not.

so that passage where Jesus describes the Law and the prophets (summing them all up into 2), He is using there to tell the man that EVEN IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE DONE THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NOT GAIN ETERNAL LIFE.

even born again believers are unable to Love and obey God with all their hearts, minds and souls TO HIS PERFECT STANDARD, nor treat their neighbours in the PERFECT WAY God established in His Law.

But Jesus did do those things perfectly.

so please, in the future don't use that passage to say we are able to fulfill the Law by doing those 2 things: even we can STILL not do that according as God REQUIRES. we are covered and Justified by what JESUS DID CONCERNING THOSE THINGS.

i do not mean to say we are not to strive all our lives for those things. just that that passage PROVES THE OPPOSITE of what you want it to say.

zone.

Hi, just forget Elijah! The Words posted ARE THE WORD OF GOD, not the Jer. 17:5 stuff.
And here are some more from [INSPIRATION].. 1 John 3(N.T.)
[3] And every man [that hath this hope in him purifieth himself], even as he is pure.
(see Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9)
[4] [[Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.]]

 

[Strangelove]

Hi, just forget Elijah! The Words posted ARE THE WORD OF GOD, not the Jer. 17:5 stuff.
And here are some more from [INSPIRATION].. 1 John 3(N.T.)
[3] And every man [that hath this hope in him purifieth himself], even as he is pure.
(see Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9)
[4] [[Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.]]

Ya again, nothing about following written OT law there.

We repent because we follow Christ. Thats it. It's so simple. Even my 5 year old son can get this.