Is the Trinity biblical and does it matter?

[Brother Mike]

You are not a fan of the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity either.

As I said, all Scriptures, every single one must line up and match any said belief. I have 52 scriptures mentioning the Father and Son together. Not in some one god system by the many one god systems. All 52 would have to say ONE. Jesus said He is one in the father and we are one in him. We are part of the Godhead bodily, we are the body of Christ making up His body. Trinity concept removes us from the family by whom we have family in Heaven and in earth. Jesus is some 2nd person of some godhead. No, He has been given dominion over all things in Heaven and earth. He is no 2nd person to anything, but the King of Kings, Lord of Lords.

As I said, I would need the scripture, not some made up doctrine out of the Roman Catholic Church. You can believe as you wish, I am not against the one god doctrines out there, but I count two. The Lord God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:6)

I don't know the counting system in Australia, but in the U.S...... ONE + ONE = TWO.
If scriptures are not enough to get a person to examine something over the idea's of man, then sorry is that person. My hope is that all believers come to the place of accepting no contradictions, rightly dividing the Word of Truth..

 

[Free]

As I said, all Scriptures, every single one must line up and match any said belief.
...

I agree, so let's see how your beliefs line up with Scripture.

He is no 2nd person to anything, but the King of Kings, Lord of Lords.

The Father is also called "the King of kings and Lord of lords":

1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, (ESV)

As I said, I would need the scripture, not some made up doctrine out of the Roman Catholic Church. You can believe as you wish, I am not against the one god doctrines out there, but I count two. The Lord God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
(1Co 8:6)

I don't know the counting system in Australia, but in the U.S...... ONE + ONE = TWO.

You are a bitheist, which is unbiblical. The Bible very clearly teaches that there was, is, and ever will be, only one true God:

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. (Compare with John 17:5.)

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. (Note that Jesus refers to himself as "the first and the last in Rev. 1:7; 2:8; 22:13.)

Isa 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, (Compare John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-16; 1 Cor. 8:6.)

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.

(All ESV)

Do you see the glaring issue here? When I compare what you have stated--"I am not against the one god doctrines out there, but I count two"--with what the Bible says, either you are right or the Bible is, but not both. God says he knows of no other God, so how is it that you know there is? Why do you claim to know something that God not only doesn't know but clearly says is not the case?

You are telling God that he is wrong, that he doesn't know what he is talking about, and I would like to know why.

If scriptures are not enough to get a person to examine something over the idea's of man, then sorry is that person. My hope is that all believers come to the place of accepting no contradictions, rightly dividing the Word of Truth

Yet you accept a significant contradiction, even saying that God is wrong.

 

[Jim Parker]

As I said, everything must match every single scripture perfectly, I don't care what other men have made up or what creeds they designed.

Thus you have, with unmitigated arrogance of your assumption of superior knowledge and understanding, placed YOUR OPINION of what scripture says above the LEARNED conclusions of multiple thousands of REAL theologians over the past 2000 years.
Do you have an expert command of Koine Greek?
..of Hebrew and Aramaic?
..of the social, political, and literary context of the writers of Scripture?

My bet is "no" to all the above.

I have no doubt that you love the Lord and are pursuing His will for your life with all your heart.
But, you are NOT a theologian and your are espousing heresy, not Christianity.

iakov the fool

 

[GodsGrace]

Thus you have, with unmitigated arrogance of your assumption of superior knowledge and understanding, placed YOUR OPINION of what scripture says above the LEARNED conclusions of multiple thousands of REAL theologians over the past 2000 years.
Do you have an expert command of Koine Greek?
..of Hebrew and Aramaic?
..of the social, political, and literary context of the writers of Scripture?

My bet is "no" to all the above.

I have no doubt that you love the Lord and are pursuing His will for your life with all your heart.
But, you are NOT a theologian and your are espousing heresy, not Christianity.

iakov the fool

:nod

I like to say that one can believe what one wishes. Some beliefs may not even bring to a lost state. That God will decide.

However, one CANNOT make up his own religion. If one wants to call himself a Christian, he MUST follow
Christian doctrine.

Wondering

 

[OzSpen]

Mike,

You say,

We are part of the Godhead bodily, we are the body of Christ making up His body.

Being a member of the body of Christ does not make me part of the bodily Godhead. I find that to be illogical.

Again, you state,

I don't know the counting system in Australia, but in the U.S...... ONE + ONE = TWO.

Sarcasm doesn't work with me. The Trinity does NOT teach 1+1+1=1.
This is what the Trinity teaches:

The persons and deity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit


The “Shield of the Trinity” or Scutum Fidei diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism (courtesy Wikipedia)

For some more details, see my article, 'Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?'

Oz

 

[Free]

These are some off-topic posts from another thread but the discussion is good, and necessary.

 

[Jim Parker]

However, one CANNOT make up his own religion. If one wants to call himself a Christian, he MUST follow
Christian doctrine.

Agreed. I can't make stuff up and call it Christian.
To actually be a Christian organization, a religion must hold to the core teachings of the church which are found in the canons of the 7 great councils. (Nicene Creed etc.)

iakov the fool

 

[OzSpen]

I agree, so let's see how your beliefs line up with Scripture.


The Father is also called "the King of kings and Lord of lords":

1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, (ESV)


You are a bitheist, which is unbiblical. The Bible very clearly teaches that there was, is, and ever will be, only one true God:

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. (Compare with John 17:5.)

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. (Note that Jesus refers to himself as "the first and the last in Rev. 1:7; 2:8; 22:13.)

Isa 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, (Compare John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-16; 1 Cor. 8:6.)

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.

(All ESV)

Do you see the glaring issue here? When I compare what you have stated--"I am not against the one god doctrines out there, but I count two"--with what the Bible says, either you are right or the Bible is, but not both. God says he knows of no other God, so how is it that you know there is? Why do you claim to know something that God not only doesn't know but clearly says is not the case?

You are telling God that he is wrong, that he doesn't know what he is talking about, and I would like to know why.


Yet you accept a significant contradiction, even saying that God is wrong.

Free,
That is a brilliant assessment. Congratulations!

Oz

 

[handy]

Guess I'll jump in. Let's get some of the more obvious Scriptures on the table:

John 1 I'm sure you're familiar with the passage, the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Also Hebrews 1:8 "of the Son, He says 'Thy throne O God' is forever and ever.

Any reason why, due to these two passages, we should not worship Jesus Christ as God the Son? If not, why not?

 

[OzSpen]

Guess I'll jump in. Let's get some of the more obvious Scriptures on the table:

John 1 I'm sure you're familiar with the passage, the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Also Hebrews 1:8 "of the Son, He says 'Thy throne O God' is forever and ever.

Any reason why, due to these two passages, we should not worship Jesus Christ as God the Son? If not, why not?

Excellent scriptures, Handy.

There are also Scriptures that support: (1) The Father as God, and 92) The Holy Spirit as God.

Then note the fact that there is only one God (Deut 6:4 ESV).

This does not mean 1+1+1=1. It means that there in one God and the three persons in the Godhead are each God. This is not Tritheism (3 Gods).

It is truth, but it is a mystery that is beyond our human language to explain adequately.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

These are some off-topic posts from another thread but the discussion is good, and necessary.

Free,

Following the OP, it does matter to have a biblical understanding of the Trinity. If we don't, it means that we could be worshipping another God, another Jesus, another Holy Spirit.

Who is the biblical Jesus through whom salvation comes?
Acts 4:11-12 (ESV) states:

11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Who is this Jesus? That would be for another thread, but he is the God-man. Worshipping any other Jesus is to pursue a false route to an impossible salvation.

That's why understanding the Trinity is so important so that we know which God we worship. When I speak of 'understanding the Trinity' I do NOT mean 'fully understanding the Trinity'. That will be for my time in glory. Perhaps it won't matter then.

In my part of the world and when I lived in the USA and Canada, I found that many Christians were functional unitarians or believers in tritheism.

See the article, 'The doctrine of the Trinity: No Christianity without it' (The Gospel Coalition).

Oz

 

[GodsGrace]

Guess I'll jump in. Let's get some of the more obvious Scriptures on the table:

John 1 I'm sure you're familiar with the passage, the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Also Hebrews 1:8 "of the Son, He says 'Thy throne O God' is forever and ever.

Any reason why, due to these two passages, we should not worship Jesus Christ as God the Son? If not, why not?

Handy
The poster is not saying that Jesus is not God. He's saying that Jesus is God and of the nature, or essence of God, but that he is a separate person from God the Father.

Just to clarify so you could follow along.

Wondering

 

[handy]

Handy
The poster is not saying that Jesus is not God. He's saying that Jesus is God and of the nature, or essence of God, but that he is a separate person from God the Father.

Just to clarify so you could follow along.

Wondering

I admittedly need all the clarification I can get. From what I've read of his statements, it seemed as though he is stating that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God the Son. So... are we then discussing the supposition that there is more than one God?

 

[GodsGrace]

I admittedly need all the clarification I can get. From what I've read of his statements, it seemed as though he is stating that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God the Son. So... are we then discussing the supposition that there is more than one God?

Yes. If we follow that line of reasoning, we end up with two separate and distinct Gods. This is not Christianity.

 

[OzSpen]

I admittedly need all the clarification I can get. From what I've read of his statements, it seemed as though he is stating that Jesus is the Son of God, but not God the Son. So... are we then discussing the supposition that there is more than one God?

handy,

You might like to read Free's explanation at #22 as Brother Mike seems to be promoting a view of the trinity that is not orthodox. I'm not saying anything more to you than I've said to him. I find some of his statements to be confusing as to his understanding of the nature of the Trinitarian God.

Oz

 

[Free]

Guess I'll jump in. Let's get some of the more obvious Scriptures on the table:

John 1 I'm sure you're familiar with the passage, the Word was with God and the Word was God and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Also Hebrews 1:8 "of the Son, He says 'Thy throne O God' is forever and ever.

Any reason why, due to these two passages, we should not worship Jesus Christ as God the Son? If not, why not?

Worship. An excellent point to bring up regarding Jesus. First, what does the Bible say about worshiping God? Let's look (all ESV):

Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Exo 34:14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
Mat 4:9 And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"

Looking at the worship of Jesus:

Mat 2:11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Mat 14:31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mat 14:32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
Mat 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
(It is very important to also note here the use of "the Son of God".)

Mat 28:5 But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.
Mat 28:7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you."
Mat 28:8 So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Mat 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luk 24:50 Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them.
Luk 24:51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
Joh 9:36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?"
Joh 9:37 Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you."
Joh 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"
Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Now let's see the responses when others are worshiped:

Act 10:25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."

Col 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,

Rev 19:9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God."
Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Clearly then, God alone is to be worshiped, yet we see that Jesus is worshiped at his birth, during his ministry and time on earth, and then in heaven. This simply could not be if Jesus was not truly God.

 

[Free]

Free,

Following the OP, it does matter to have a biblical understanding of the Trinity. If we don't, it means that we could be worshipping another God, another Jesus, another Holy Spirit.

Who is the biblical Jesus through whom salvation comes?
Acts 4:11-12 (ESV) states:
11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Who is this Jesus? That would be for another thread, but he is the God-man. Worshipping any other Jesus is to pursue a false route to an impossible salvation.

That's why understanding the Trinity is so important so that we know which God we worship. When I speak of 'understanding the Trinity' I do NOT mean 'fully understanding the Trinity'. That will be for my time in glory. Perhaps it won't matter then.

In my part of the world and when I lived in the USA and Canada, I found that many Christians were functional unitarians or believers in tritheism.

See the article, 'The doctrine of the Trinity: No Christianity without it' (The Gospel Coalition).

Oz

OzSpen , I would like your thoughts on the following:

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (ESV)

In verse 13, Paul has quoted from Joel 2:32:

Joe 2:32 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls. (ESV)

It seems to me that within the context of Rom. 10:9-13, what Paul means by "confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord," is not only that he is Lord/master of our lives (surely it means that), but that it also means "confess with your mouth that Jesus is YHWH," based on his quote from Joel 2:32. We see in verse 9, "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord," followed by a series of "Fors"--statements beginning with "For," which means they are each linked to each other and ultimately back to verse 9.

The implication is that one cannot be saved unless one confesses Jesus as both their Lord and their God. Which, of course, brings to mind Thomas's confession in John 20:28: "My Lord and my God!"

Is it possible, given the context (Paul's use of Joel 2:32 in verse 13 connected to verse 9), that this is the case? I have argued such in the past but am sometimes unsure if I am making the passage say too much.

 

[LovethroughDove]

The doctrine of the Trinity is that there are three coequal, coeternal persons within the one being that is God. And that is in complete agreement with the Nicene Creed--one substance. This is what the Bible clearly and plainly reveals.

I guess I would disagree with the whole coequal thing.

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The Son is under the Father and believers are under the Son.

The Father, Son and believers are One. John 14:20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Coeternal.

 

[Brother Mike]

I agree, so let's see how your beliefs line up with Scripture.


The Father is also called "the King of kings and Lord of lords":

1Ti 6:15 which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, (ESV)


You are a bitheist, which is unbiblical. The Bible very clearly teaches that there was, is, and ever will be, only one true God:

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Isa 42:8 I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols. (Compare with John 17:5.)

Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.

Isa 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. (Note that Jesus refers to himself as "the first and the last in Rev. 1:7; 2:8; 22:13.)

Isa 44:8 Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

Isa 44:24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: "I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself, (Compare John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-16; 1 Cor. 8:6.)

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other, besides me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me,
Isa 45:6 that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides me; I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:18 For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): "I am the LORD, and there is no other.

Isa 45:21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.

Isa 45:22 "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,

Isa 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.

(All ESV)

Do you see the glaring issue here? When I compare what you have stated--"I am not against the one god doctrines out there, but I count two"--with what the Bible says, either you are right or the Bible is, but not both. God says he knows of no other God, so how is it that you know there is? Why do you claim to know something that God not only doesn't know but clearly says is not the case?

You are telling God that he is wrong, that he doesn't know what he is talking about, and I would like to know why.


Yet you accept a significant contradiction, even saying that God is wrong.

We have been over this for the last several years. I can't post nothing new, or get you to understand.

There is One Lord God, Period.

That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1Ti 6:14-16)
The appearing of the Lord Jesus is the King of Kings. Jesus was given all things by the Father.

Jud_1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are two Free, even after you apply the so called mystery of Christian Faith. A Father and a Son.

You can't wrap around your head that Father and Son are both God, but both have different descriptions. Eze and Rev.
Both have their own throne.
The Father Sent the Son to us on Earth.
Jesus was not confused on who was the greater.
Jesus had been with the Father before the Earth was even made. (John 17)

It's the same dead horse Free. You did not get your doctrine from your hours of study. You picked it up from men. The RCC Church to be more exact or a copy cat version of it.

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Who gave him the Power Free?

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
If the Holy Spirit is also the "one" god. Why do we need him to access the Father?

I would go on, if I thought it would help you.
Either way, it's a dead and worthless argument.
Mike.

 

[Grey Heron]

Following the OP, it does matter to have a biblical understanding of the Trinity. If we don't, it means that we could be worshipping another God, another Jesus, another Holy Spirit.

I have found that following Jesus has nothing to do with whether you believe in the Trinity or not. I have found that you can worship God and Jesus, in spirit and in truth, in the love and sacrifice practiced each day, regardless of your theological conception of things like the Trinity.

I hope you don't mind a brief quote and question to illustrate my perspective:

"A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him."

At that time (before the New Testament was written) who had the better theology, the priest, the Levite or the Samaritan?