Is the Trinity biblical and does it matter?

[GodsGrace]

Worship. An excellent point to bring up regarding Jesus. First, what does the Bible say about worshiping God? Let's look (all ESV):

Exo 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Exo 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me,
Exo 20:6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Exo 34:14 (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),

Mat 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
Mat 4:9 And he said to him, "All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me."
Mat 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, "Be gone, Satan! For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"

Looking at the worship of Jesus:

Mat 2:11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.

Mat 14:31 Jesus immediately reached out his hand and took hold of him, saying to him, "O you of little faith, why did you doubt?"
Mat 14:32 And when they got into the boat, the wind ceased.
Mat 14:33 And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
(It is very important to also note here the use of "the Son of God".)

Mat 28:5 But the angel said to the women, "Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified.
Mat 28:6 He is not here, for he has risen, as he said. Come, see the place where he lay.
Mat 28:7 Then go quickly and tell his disciples that he has risen from the dead, and behold, he is going before you to Galilee; there you will see him. See, I have told you."
Mat 28:8 So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples.
Mat 28:9 And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

Mat 28:16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them.
Mat 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted.

Luk 24:50 Then he led them out as far as Bethany, and lifting up his hands he blessed them.
Luk 24:51 While he blessed them, he parted from them and was carried up into heaven.
Luk 24:52 And they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy,

Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
Joh 9:36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?"
Joh 9:37 Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you."
Joh 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Rev 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands,
Rev 5:12 saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!"
Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!"
Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures said, "Amen!" and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Now let's see the responses when others are worshiped:

Act 10:25 When Peter entered, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.
Act 10:26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."

Col 2:18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind,

Rev 19:9 And the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb." And he said to me, "These are the true words of God."
Rev 19:10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, "You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God." For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Clearly then, God alone is to be worshiped, yet we see that Jesus is worshiped at his birth, during his ministry and time on earth, and then in heaven. This simply could not be if Jesus was not truly God.

Great post, Free.

 

[smaller]

Ah cheese, Edith! Not another one!
The doctrine of the trinity was accepted by the entire church before there even was a RCC.
Christianity is trinitarian.
Everything else is not Christianity.
If your church denies the trinity, it's not a Christian church. It's similar, but it's not the real thing.
Get the real thing.

The Trinity is about as good of an attempt as any in trying to convey the Expressions/Workings of The Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost.

But at some point you realize how vile that attempt was, in splitting the orthodox in half. Over 3 words. Was it really worth it? Do any of us think that we are going to stand before our Maker with our crib notes to see if we are RIGHT?

There is a very certain vanity and futility that comes into the exercises when any of us try to put The God of all creation into our own definition boxes. I doubt God will be impressed by any of it myself.

What does result is what we see in the orthodox camps. Divisions. The futilities of intellect. The charges of heresies. Of potential condemnation. Over 3 words for pete's sake.

Was it really worth it? I don't think so. What it really did was to bring the reality of indwelling sin and evil present to the fore with believers falling into condemnations of each others.

IF that is the result of such exercises, a lot of other believers will simply say PASS. I'm not willing to let 3 words get in the way of my life and start condemning other believers over it.

IT IS NOT WORTH IT.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Does anyone have Perfect Sight? A Perfect Construct?

NOPE!

I am content with the description that the Nicene Creed proposes. Jots, tittles and potential condemnations and heresies notwithstanding.

Religious people can fall into some pretty dark traps of the mind when they get to thinking they and they alone have A Perfect Construct. Their intellect has betrayed them.

 

[dianegcook]

My
In Isa.9:6 it states
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace..

The way I explain it is that it is the same person but different offices.
Different roles..
Jesus was God in the flesh, the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit...
We all are body, soul and spirit, yet we are one person..

 

[smaller]

I think most of us spend a considerable amount of time considering God. I do, daily.

Recognizing that "The Father" is invisible, immortal, well beyond any possible definitions that I can muster to define HIM. This is my "mind" picture of God, The Father. That mind picture has NO PICTURE. I can not possibly ever ever say what the FULLNESS OF THE FATHER IS.

Only HE Is Able to know the fullness of what He Is and Consists of. I don't get to play. I don't get to "define" Him. And I don't expect that will ever be the case for all of eternity.

Under The Father, we have to understand that we (and I am EXCLUDING JESUS HERE) are "made" or "created" spirits.

Examples:

1 Cor. 15:
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

The fact that we are "made" defines the relationship here. There is The Creator, and there is what is MADE. We are "made." We are NOT The Creator, The Father.

So, how does THE SON, God in Christ play into these matters? That's at the heart of this observation.

God, The Father, has "EXPRESSED" His Own Self to creation, creation that which is MADE via His Own Son, His Own Self Expression, Jesus. Jesus IS THE IMAGE AND EXPRESSION of God Himself into creation.

This Expression of God comes in WORD OF GOD. This Expression of the fullness of God Himself came in FLESH. This Is Gods Son, God Himself EXPRESSED into creation. The MEDIATOR between The Father and creation in God The Son.

If anyone finds fault here, please feel free to hammer me.

The Holy Spirit is given to us, to share in and with God The Father and The Son. But, I might call this a "watered down" matter. We, in the flesh, are not provided the same status of Jesus in our flesh life, wherein dwelt THE FULLNESS of Gods Spirit without LIMIT. We have a 'limited' experience in this life. Our "share" of The Spirit of God in Christ is termed as "A SEED." Meaning, NOT YET, the WHOLE ENCHILADA.

In any case of sights we should recognize we are MADE. We are not going to be God. We are JOINED into Christ's Body, The Expression of God. It is a very hard thing to get ahold of IN THE MIND. It is The Spirit that has to bring us into understanding. Our intellect can not do this. The Spirit does.

So, why then MADE SPIRITS, do you condemn each others over such an unfathomable ETERNAL MYSTERY?

Do you not know that we are MADE ONE?

I know that I can not make myself ONE. I must be MADE. To this end, I look to my REDEEMER, who MADE me and purchased me with His Own Blood, Jesus Christ. The Expression of God into creation. Wherein His Body I will stand, before our Father. Even now I am a MADE piece of His Body.

This IS a most difficult concept to bear in mind. But I have had THE PICTURE. From the Holy Spirit. It is difficult to keep, IN MIND.

 

[Free]

There is One Lord God, Period.

That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
(1Ti 6:14-16)
The appearing of the Lord Jesus is the King of Kings. Jesus was given all things by the Father.

Jud_1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

There are two Free, even after you apply the so called mystery of Christian Faith. A Father and a Son.

You can't wrap around your head that Father and Son are both God, but both have different descriptions. Eze and Rev.
Both have their own throne.

Please tell me that your belief rests on more than one verse. Concerning Jude 1:4:

Jud 1:4 For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (ESV)

Jud 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord--Jesus Christ--denying, (YLT)

Jud 1:4 For certain men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God in to promiscuity and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (HCSB)

Jud 1:4 For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NASB)

Jud 1:4 For certain intruders have stolen in among you, people who long ago were designated for this condemnation as ungodly, who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and demy our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NRSV)

Jud 1:4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immortality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (NIV)

The only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ - Μονον Δεσποτην Θεον και Κυριον ἡμων Ιησουν Χριστον αρυουμενοι. These words may be translated, Denying the only sovereign God, even our Lord Jesus Christ. But Θεον God, is omitted by ABC, sixteen others, with Erpen’s Arabic, the Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, and Vulgate, and by many of the fathers. It is very likely that it was originally inserted as a gloss, to ascertain to whom the title of τον μονον Δεσποτην, the only Sovereign, belonged; and thus make two persons where only one seems to be intended. The passage I believe belongs solely to Jesus Christ, and may be read thus: Denying the only sovereign Ruler, even our Lord Jesus Christ. The text is differently arranged in the Complutensian Polyglot, which contains the first edition of the Greek Testament: Και τον μονον Θεον και Δεσποτην, τον Κυριον ἡμων Ιησουν Χριστον αρνουμενοι· Denying the only God and Sovereign, our Lord Jesus Christ. This is a very remarkable position of the words, and doubtless existed in some of the MSS. from which these editors copied. (Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible)

Lord God
God is omitted in the best texts. On Lord (δεσπότην), see on 2Pe 2:1. (Vincent's Word Studies)

denying the only Lord — The oldest manuscripts, versions, and Fathers omit “God,” which follows in English Version. Translate as the Greek, “the only Master”; here used of Jesus Christ, who is at once Master and “Lord” (a different Greek word). See on 2Pe 2:1. By virtue of Christ’s perfect oneness with the Father, He, as well as the Father, is termed “the ONLY” God and “MASTER.” Greek, “Master,” implies God’s absolute ownership to dispose of His creatures as He likes. (Jamieson, Fausset and Brown Commentary)

It appears that there is much agreement between Bible versions and commentators that there is no "Lord God" in Jude 1:4 because it seems that "God" should not be in the text at that point; Jesus is the focus.

And this is also worth mentioning:

Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"
Rev 4:9 And whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanks to him who is seated on the throne, who lives forever and ever,
Rev 4:10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who is seated on the throne and worship him who lives forever and ever. They cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Rev 4:11 "Worthy are you, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created." (ESV)

I will now suggest you look at my previous post on the worship of God and of Jesus. Here we see the worship of "the Lord God Almighty," which would be the worship God alone is worthy of, consistent with the biblical teaching that we are to worship God only. Yet, as I had pointed out, others have worshiped Jesus, without a peep from him.

There is much to be desired with your belief that there is only "one Lord God," the Father, and "one Lord," the Son, who also happens to be God. And that is quite apart from the insurmountable problem that you didn't address--monotheism.

It's the same dead horse Free. You did not get your doctrine from your hours of study. You picked it up from men. The RCC Church to be more exact or a copy cat version of it.

As has been pointed out, this goes much further back than the RCC. It is pure folly to presume that just because someone has a different understanding then you that they have not done hours of their own study. But even if I got this doctrine from men, there have been thousands and thousands of learned and well studied, godly men who have studied the Bible and found the Trinity to be the best explanation of all that God reveals about himself. But you, you are a single man and prefer your own interpretation over that of thousands. You chastise me for getting my doctrine from thousands of men, yet you get yours from yourself. What does that tell you?

 

[Free]

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Who gave him the Power Free?

The Father. But to leave it at that would be to take it out of context. First, we can look at the verse immediately following:

Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (ESV)

In the name (εἰς τὸ ὄνομα)
Rev., correctly, “into the name.” Baptizing into the name has a twofold meaning. 1. Unto, denoting object or purpose, as εἰς μετάνοιαν, unto repentance (Mat_3:11); εἰς ἄφεσιν ἁμαρτιῶν, for the remission of sins (Act_2:38). 2. Into, denoting union or communion with, as Rom_6:3, “baptized into Christ Jesus; into his death;” i.e., we are brought by baptism into fellowship with his death. Baptizing into the name of the Holy Trinity implies a spiritual and mystical union with him. Eἰς, into, is the preposition commonly used with baptize. See Act_8:16; Act_19:3, Act_19:5; 1Co_1:13, 1Co_1:15; 1Co_10:2; Gal_3:27. In Act_2:38, however, Peter says, “Be baptized upon (ἐπὶ) the name of Jesus Christ; and in Act_10:48, he commands Cornelius and his friends to be baptized in (ἐν) the name of the Lord. To be baptized upon the name is to be baptized on the confession of that which the name implies: on the ground of the name; so that the name Jesus, as the contents of the faith and confession, is the ground upon which the becoming baptized rests. In the name (ἐν) has reference to the sphere within which alone true baptism is accomplished. The name is not the mere designation, a sense which would give to the baptismal formula merely the force of a charm. The name, as in the Lord's Prayer (“Hallowed be thy name”), is the expression of the sum total of the divine Being: not his designation as God or Lord, but the formula in which all his attributes and characteristics are summed up. It is equivalent to his person. The finite mind can deal with him only through his name; but his name is of no avail detached from his nature. When one is baptized into the name of the Trinity, he professes to acknowledge and appropriate God in all that he is and in all that he does for man. He recognizes and depends upon God the Father as his Creator and Preserver; receives Jesus Christ as his only Mediator and Redeemer, and his pattern of life; and confesses the Holy Spirit as his Sanctifier and Comforter. (Vincent's Word Studies)

I would like to highlight this particular sentence: "The name, as in the Lord's Prayer (“Hallowed be thy name”), is the expression of the sum total of the divine Being: not his designation as God or Lord, but the formula in which all his attributes and characteristics are summed up" (bold emphasis mine). So we see the "name," singular, expressing "the sum total of the divine Being" as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Second, we must consider this most relevant passage:

Php 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,
Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
Php 2:7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.
Php 2:8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Php 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, (ESV)

This is speaking of the Incarnation and clearly shows the reason why Jesus depended on the Father.

Eph_2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
If the Holy Spirit is also the "one" god. Why do we need him to access the Father?

How exactly does that show that the Holy Spirit isn't also God? There is no logical reason to think that proves the Holy Spirit isn't God anymore than Jesus's statement "no one comes to the Father except through me," proves that Jesus isn't God.

Either way, it's a dead and worthless argument.
Mike.

In what way exactly is a discussion on the nature of God worthless?

It is very difficult to not notice that you did not at all address my post which you quoted. So I must again ask and state:

When I compare what you have stated--"I am not against the one god doctrines out there, but I count two"--with what the Bible says, either you are right or the Bible is, but not both. God says he knows of no other God, so how is it that you know there is? Why do you claim to know something that God not only doesn't know but clearly says is not the case?

 

[Brother Mike]

I have found that following Jesus has nothing to do with whether you believe in the Trinity or not. I have found that you can worship God and Jesus, in spirit and in truth, in the love and sacrifice practiced each day, regardless of your theological conception of things like the Trinity.

I hope you don't mind a brief quote and question to illustrate my perspective:

"A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him."

At that time (before the New Testament was written) who had the better theology, the priest, the Levite or the Samaritan?

Your are correct Grey. The Oneness, Trinity and Modalist doctrines are not in scripture, many scripture denote a Father and Son, (52 of them) not some god machine where they are smashed into one, and nothing in scripture stating you have to believe in this one god machine, but instead say you must believe in the Father and Son.

Religion sadly is believed over what the Word of God actually says. The blind can't see all the other scriptures like Jesus saying My Father is greater than I. Since that scripture does not match their religion, they say....... Well, that was when Jesus was a man....(They add to the Word to their own hurt) Jesus was God, the Son of God in the flesh and was not just a man. He had been with His Father before and He knew who His Father was, and was not confused at all in the least bit.

For my love of the Word, there can not be even one contrary scripture with any other scripture, nor can any one scripture be contrary to any man made doctrines. God's Word is perfect, and everything to be considered.

God bless Grey.

 

[Brother Mike]

Mike,

You say,


Being a member of the body of Christ does not make me part of the bodily Godhead. I find that to be illogical.

Again, you state,


Sarcasm doesn't work with me. The Trinity does NOT teach 1+1+1=1.
This is what the Trinity teaches:

The persons and deity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit


The “Shield of the Trinity” or Scutum Fidei diagram of traditional Western Christian symbolism (courtesy Wikipedia)

For some more details, see my article, 'Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?'

Oz

So by your own admission, your not part of the Body of Christ, whom is the Son of God, is God the Son and not part of the family to God?

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So, your not "IN HIM" not complete and this explains what is wrong with your thinking. It also shows you pick A symbol, religion over the Scripture and need to get right. It also shows I am wasting my time, because I value Scripture, all of them, and your not at that level yet. If your not part of the Godhead, not an heir, not have all the power in heaven and earth dwelling in you, then you don't even know what you are, and not even a citizen of earth anymore.
However, it's written that children, being heirs are still subject to the elements of this World until the time they be grown, fully sons of God. If you be a son, you be part of the Godhead bodily with whom all fullness dwells in authority and power by the name of the Lord Jesus.

Mike.

 

[Runner]

I have found that following Jesus has nothing to do with whether you believe in the Trinity or not. I have found that you can worship God and Jesus, in spirit and in truth, in the love and sacrifice practiced each day, regardless of your theological conception of things like the Trinity.

I'm with you, Gray Heron, but probably no one else will be. To me, it is quite humorous that doctrines such as the Trinity become stumbling blocks within the lives of individual believers and causes of divisiveness within the Christian community as a whole. The humorousness is compounded when the doctrine is one like the Trinity that is, by its very nature, incomprehensible. The doctrine is meant to express a mystery, not to be analyzed until you arrive at the "correct understanding" and can tell everyone else theirs is "wrong." I doubt very seriously "What you believed about the Trinity" is going to be one of the heavenly litmus tests for the sincerity of your Christianity.

I realize that actually studying scholars who know what they are talking about is no substitute for debating anonymous posters on an Internet discussion forum, but I happen to be reading The Quest for the Trinity: The Doctrine of God, History and Modernity by Stephen R. Holmes (Inter Varsity Press 2012), which traces the history of the development of the doctrine from the First Century to the present (and the doctrine has indeed evolved). I don't know why I bother with books like this when such high-level armchair theology is available for free on a site like this, but I have found this one to be worthwhile.

 

[Butch5]

My
In Isa.9:6 it states
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace..

The way I explain it is that it is the same person but different offices.
Different roles..
Jesus was God in the flesh, the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit...
We all are body, soul and spirit, yet we are one person..

Diane,

That passage reads differently in the Septuagint which dates to an earlier date than the Hebrew Masoretic text. Here it is from the Septuagint.

6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Isa. 9:6 LXA)

 

[civilwarbuff]

Diane,

That passage reads differently in the Septuagint which dates to an earlier date than the Hebrew Masoretic text. Here it is from the Septuagint.

6 (5) because a child was born for us, a son also given to us, whose sovereignty was upon his shoulder, and he is named Messenger of Great Counsel, for I will bring peace upon the rulers, peace and health to him. (Isa. 9:6 NETS)

Is the NETS an acceptable translation here?

 

[Butch5]

Is the NETS an acceptable translation here?

Are there unacceptable translations here?

 

[civilwarbuff]

I believe so......somewhere in the sitewide rules....I believe it is based on biblegateway.com......something I read just a few days ago......

 

[Butch5]

I believe so......somewhere in the sitewide rules....I believe it is based on biblegateway.com......something I read just a few days ago......

OK, I didn't know there were translations that weren't allowed.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Terms of Service 2.2
Only scripture from accepted Christian bibles will be allowed to be posted on this board. The New World Translation and Book of Mormon are not considered Christian material on this site. Discussion about other, questionable sources , documents, writings or material is acceptable but will not be permitted to be used as a basis of support within a debate or discussion.

I sent the question off to a mod....hope you don't mind.....

 

[Butch5]

Terms of Service 2.2
Only scripture from accepted Christian bibles will be allowed to be posted on this board. The New World Translation and Book of Mormon are not considered Christian material on this site. Discussion about other, questionable sources , documents, writings or material is acceptable but will not be permitted to be used as a basis of support within a debate or discussion.

I sent the question off to a mod....hope you don't mind.....

The NETS is a Christian Bible. I changed it to another source though.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Is it available publicly without buying it? I did a quick search and could not find a public copy?

 

[ezra]

For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one

But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith.

Here are parts of your trinity concept. If you have a more early creed, I would be interested in it. The Nicene 325 and revised edition of the 381 are a bit different.

You must be Roman Catholic also. It's part of your doctrine.

Now if you have a doctrine much newer then it's stolen from the originals that came out of Rome, I am not interested in the many new plagiarized doctrines.

Actually if you want to talk about something useful, I am in for that also.

Mike.

do what ?????? you don't believe in the trinity father son holy Ghost who is the us in let US make man in our image GEN 1:26 or Isiah 6 who will go for US
isaiah 6:8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" just want make sure i understand befor commenting

 

[Butch5]

Is it available publicly without buying it? I did a quick search and could not find a public copy?

I think the only one available publicly without purchase is the KJV. Most posting of other translations falls under fair use.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Is the NETS the same as NET? Just asking cuz the Isa 9:6 you quoted from NETS was different from my NET......which is what triggered this whole ?'s of mine......