Is the Trinity biblical? Is Jesus really God?

[Free]

The context is He is ALL that the Father is. The reason is "the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" Not that he is the one true God. He has a God and He stated that was the Father.

If Jesus is all that the Father is, then he is also truly God. Again, you are creating and believing a contradiction. You simply cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus is God, or he is not.

 

[Papa Zoom]

i never accused you or anyone of claiming Jesus was the Father, are you sure your replying to the right person?

You claimed it.

so Jesus was not the Most High when He was on earth?
no, i have no shame in saying i do not understand the trinity.
Most High is a reference to the Father
Psalm 91 1
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.
Psalm 82 6
I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.

the trinity says Jesus is the Most High, the bible says Jesus was tempted, the bible says the Most High can not be tempted. thngs like this are a problem for me, you can call it a strawman caricature, i call it a teaching that makes me scratch my head.

Here you clearly claim that the teaching of the Trinity says Jesus is the Father. You clearly say that Most High is a reference to the Father and that the Trinity claims that of Jesus as well so you clearly imply that Jesus is the Father.

 

[Justicewolf]

John 14:15-17 (DLNT)
15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16 And I will request the Father, and He will give you another Helper to be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, Whom the world is not able to receive because it does not see nor know Him. You know Him because He abides with you, and will be in you.

Matthew 1:23Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which is, being interpreted, 'God with us.'

 

[Randy]

If Jesus is all that the Father is, then he is also truly God. Again, you are creating and believing a contradiction. You simply cannot have it both ways. Either Jesus is God, or he is not.

So you state. I state yes and no depending on the context. For all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell in Him with His spirit. That makes him the exact image of the wisdom and power of God yet His Spirit can not be divine or you would have two Gods. So Jesus is not God in that context but Gods Son. On top of that Jesus has been given all authority a well as all that belongs to the Father also belongs to Him. Jesus therefore can will and the Spirit of God will act. He also holds the eyes of the lord that range through out the world and the 7 angels of the churches. Even so as the Son Jesus abides within the framework of the Fathers will. Hence He sits at the right hand of power until his enemies are to made His foot stool and its His Fathers will to raise up on the last day all those God has given Him on this earth. The resurrection of us all.

 

[Free]

So you state. I state yes and no depending on the context.

Believing in logical contradictions is irrational.

 

[Randy]

News Flash...
Nobody understands the Trinity.

Think of this:
Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Mathew 28:19

If, as some believe, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, then why word it like this?
If they were correct, then the spirit would already be in the Father and the Son and it would not necessitate repeating the Holy Spirit as a person.

Also, in John 16:7 Jesus speaks of the spirit as a person.
I will send HIM to you...

Try this prayer "Lord, can anyone explain the trinity."
The "Father" speaks of the Spirit as His Spirit.

 

[Randy]

Believing in logical contradictions is irrational.

The context given is rational.

 

[jaybird]

Are you going to address my points?
give me a second to go back and look over them and i will address them.

If you are going to simply base your argument on that, then that means every use could be "a god."

no, it means every passage could be translated to one or the other.

Which is irrelevant as to whether or not Jesus is God.

its relevant to how "2316. theos" is used

Okay. So you have now excluded the Father from being Lord. Do you think that the Father is ever called Lord in Scripture? And, again, this is Paul expanding the Shema, giving it its full depth.

i didnt exclude anything, i posted 2 scriptures and let them speak for themselves.

It is answered. Let it go.

you are welcome to avoid what i asked. however i am willing to go over your points, just saying.

 

[jaybird]

As I have shown, the Jews understood that Jesus's claim that God was his Father, was Jesus making himself equal to God.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
Joh 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.

just as believers are one with Jesus yet believers are never thought to be bart of a trinity with Jesus

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (ESV)

IMO i think the pharisees believed men are of this world and not of the heavens just like the sons of the Most High are of the heavens.

Three times this happens.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

i believe Jesus existed before Abraham.

 

[Free]

The context given is rational.

No, it isn't. A woman cannot be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, regardless of context. She either is pregnant or she is not. There is absolutely no context in which Jesus can be God and not God. He either is God, always, or he is not, and never will be.

 

[GodsGrace]

Try this prayer "Lord, can anyone explain the trinity."
The "Father" speaks of the Spirit as His Spirit.

Knowing the Trinity does not require prayer.
It requires knowing some theology.
Have you ever heard of the hypostatic union?
It's an orthodox Christian belief.
Jesus was fully God and fully man.
Seems some here have never heard of this.

In the old testament the spirit might have referred to God Father, or God Son or the Holy Spirit Himself.
It required Theologians to sort this out. We are not theologians.

As I've already stated, Christianity was formed 2,000 years ago.
To be called a Christian one must adhere to certain basic beliefs...
Jesus is God.
He is The Son and 2nd person of the Trinity.

One must believe in the Trinity...
God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit
Three persons in One God.

One must also believe that Jesus was crucified and resurrected on the third day.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, it isn't. A woman cannot be both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time, regardless of context. She either is pregnant or she is not. There is absolutely no context in which Jesus can be God and not God. He either is God, always, or he is not, and never will be.

Amen.

 

[GodsGrace]

just as believers are one with Jesus yet believers are never thought to be bart of a trinity with Jesus


IMO i think the pharisees believed men are of this world and not of the heavens just like the sons of the Most High are of the heavens.



i believe Jesus existed before Abraham.

Saying Jesus existed before Abraham isn't saying much.
How long before Abraham did Jesus exist?

 

[jaybird]

Saying Jesus existed before Abraham isn't saying much.
How long before Abraham did Jesus exist?

i think it says a lot, He didnt just come into existence when His mother gave birth, He existed before.
the fact that He existed before means more (to me) than trying to figure out how long He has existed. IMO our concept of time is differnt than time outside this world such as the heavens. its kinda like the space time Einstein teached.

 

[GodsGrace]

i think it says a lot, He didnt just come into existence when His mother gave birth, He existed before.
the fact that He existed before means more (to me) than trying to figure out how long He has existed. IMO our concept of time is differnt than time outside this world such as the heavens. its kinda like the space time Einstein teached.

In the beginning was the Word
And the Word was with God
And the word was God.
John 1:1

Jesus had no beginning.
He is God.

 

[jaybird]

In the beginning was the Word
And the Word was with God
And the word was God.
John 1:1

Jesus had no beginning.
He is God.

then why does the scripture not say that?

 

[GodsGrace]

then why does the scripture not say that?

Scripture does say that. John 1:1 is easy to understand.
In the beginning Jesus was.
You seem to know about time and Einstein .
When was the beginning?
It means from forever since, as you must know, God had no beginning...
He always existed.
Jesus always existed with Him.
From the beginning...
From forever.

As difficult a concept to understand as the trinity.
If we understood God, we would be God.
Some concepts we just have to accept.

Some don't, like for instance the JWs.
But, of course, they're not christian.

 

[jaybird]

Scripture does say that.

with respect you said that not scripture. you may be correct, im not going to say your wrong, but other people see that scripture differently.

John 1:1 is easy to understand.
In the beginning Jesus was.
You seem to know about time and Einstein .
When was the beginning?
It means from forever since, as you must know, God had no beginning...
He always existed.
Jesus always existed with Him.
From the beginning...
From forever.

i dont think time has a beginning and an end. the next world is IMO is like a never ending moment, same as how you can take a 10 min nap and dream an entire lifetime.

As difficult a concept to understand as the trinity.
If we understood God, we would be God.
Some concepts we just have to accept.

Some don't, like for instance the JWs.
But, of course, they're not christian.

i dont worry myself with what JWs or any other group thinks, IMO one should seek the Father like Jesus teaches, why let a group influence that path?

 

[reba]

Section 2: Specific Rules and Guidelines
2.1: This is a Christian site, therefore, any attempt to put down Christianity (or declare that it is false) and the basic tenets of our Faith will be considered a hostile act. Please read: Statement of Faith

Doctrinal Statement
We believe that there is only one God, who is eternal and immutable, and manifests Himself in three distinct Persons; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

with respect you said that not scripture. you may be correct, im not going to say your wrong, but other people see that scripture differently.

I said that?
John 1:1??
I believe John said that, not me.

What other way is there to see it?
I said JWs understand it differently and you replied that you don't worry yourself with what other groups believe and then proceeded to tell me other's have a different understanding on this verse.

Let's stick to Your understanding.
Is Jesus the Word of God?
According to scripture, when did He begin to exist.?
John 1:1

I dont think time has a beginning and an end. the next world is IMO is like a never ending moment, same as how you can take a 10 min nap and dream an entire lifetime.

I agree.

dont worry myself with what JWs or any other group thinks, IMO one should seek the Father like Jesus teaches, why let a group influence that path?

Answered above.
The Father is found at the same moment we find Jesus since they're United in the Trinity.;