jaybird
Member
what would be an example of a proper application of that verse?
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Is the Trinity biblical? Is Jesus really God?
what would be an example of a proper application of that verse?
Just look at the context.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
No he was not. You don't understand the Trinity then. And I don't see why you keep repeating this "Most High" as if it's meaningful. That's a misunderstanding of the Trinity as well.
If you're going to be critical of the doctrine of the Trinity, you really should get it straight. You're arguing a caricature. It's like you've made up your own personal formula of the Trinity and then you complain about the straw-man you've created.
J
Justicewolf
Guest
It is the symbology of scripture. Dextera Domini, "Right Hand". https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/dictionary-of-bible-themes/1270-right-hand-God
The Bible says God is a spirit and we must worship him in spirit. Does that mean there is God, and then there us a spirit separate of himself? God is the holy spirit. Jesus was God on earth. This is how he raised the dead, healed the blind, the leper, cast out demons.Jesus overcame the grave.
Even the demons know the name of Jesus and tremble. Jesus name was Immanuel, God with us.
Demons tremble at the name of God.
jaybird
Member
so Jesus was not the Most High when He was on earth?
no, i have no shame in saying i do not understand the trinity.
Most High is a reference to the Father
Psalm 91 1
He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High Will abide in the shadow of the Almighty.
Psalm 82 6
I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
the trinity says Jesus is the Most High, the bible says Jesus was tempted, the bible says the Most High can not be tempted. thngs like this are a problem for me, you can call it a strawman caricature, i call it a teaching that makes me scratch my head. if someone told you Jesus was not Jewish but actually Irish and He had 14 disciples and not 12, and that this is a Christian teaching you should accept, would you not check the scriptures for your self, just like those berean Jews did with Paul?
Traveling teacher
Member
I disagree with those who say the shema or greatest commandment is no longer important....
Where is that written in the Bible...
The word of God never changes....your word is forever settled in the heavens..
Psalm 119:89
I am Yahweh i change not..
Malaci 3:6
Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever
Hebrews 13:8
The issue is who is the one true God?????
Muslims say continually. alah aqbar!!!!!!!!
They are saying that Alah the god of mohamed and islam is the one true god and only god
And there is no other god but him..and all others are apostates....
They are calling Jesus a liar...because Jesus said YAHWEH is the only God
YAHWEH is the one and only True God
And there is none other but Him
Mark 12:29
Jesus said YAHWEH our God Yahweh is one...
YAhweh is the one and only true God and their is no other...
JEsus never made himself equal to God or called himself Yahweh....
HE always gave glory to God as greater than himself...
And he always referred to himself as
The son of man or
The son of God
HE never called himself God....ever...anywhere in scripture...
The pharisees were upset with Jesus because he called himself the son of God
John 5:17-18
When the Bible says Jesus had equality with God.....
This means that the son had all authority from His Father....
Doesnt mean Jesus is the same as God
This is seen in the OT as there was wars... Over who is the true son and ruler of the King
After the king dies...
Example: which of davids son....would be King ....Solomon or Adonijah
I kings 1
Where is that written in the Bible...
The word of God never changes....your word is forever settled in the heavens..
Psalm 119:89
I am Yahweh i change not..
Malaci 3:6
Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever
Hebrews 13:8
The issue is who is the one true God?????
Muslims say continually. alah aqbar!!!!!!!!
They are saying that Alah the god of mohamed and islam is the one true god and only god
And there is no other god but him..and all others are apostates....
They are calling Jesus a liar...because Jesus said YAHWEH is the only God
YAHWEH is the one and only True God
And there is none other but Him
Mark 12:29
Jesus said YAHWEH our God Yahweh is one...
YAhweh is the one and only true God and their is no other...
JEsus never made himself equal to God or called himself Yahweh....
HE always gave glory to God as greater than himself...
And he always referred to himself as
The son of man or
The son of God
HE never called himself God....ever...anywhere in scripture...
The pharisees were upset with Jesus because he called himself the son of God
John 5:17-18
When the Bible says Jesus had equality with God.....
This means that the son had all authority from His Father....
Doesnt mean Jesus is the same as God
This is seen in the OT as there was wars... Over who is the true son and ruler of the King
After the king dies...
Example: which of davids son....would be King ....Solomon or Adonijah
I kings 1
No one has disagreed with the Shema nor the greatest commandment, and no one has said they are no longer important.
And Trinitarians agree.
As I have shown, the Jews understood that Jesus's claim that God was his Father, was Jesus making himself equal to God.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.”
Joh 10:31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?”
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.” (ESV)
Three times this happens.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
I have already shown that he did.
Joh 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." (NASB)
The "He" is italicized in the text because it is not in the Greek manuscripts; it is added by the translators. This significant since Jesus is saying that unless they believed that he was the I Am, they would die in their sins.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
Joh 18:3 Judas then, having received the Roman cohort and officers from the chief priests and the Pharisees, *came there with lanterns and torches and weapons.
Joh 18:4 So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and *said to them, "Whom do you seek?"
Joh 18:5 They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." He *said to them, "I am He." And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them.
Joh 18:6 So when He said to them, "I am He," they drew back and fell to the ground. (NASB)
Again the "He" is added to the text by the translators; it does not appear in the Greek manuscripts.
In Revelation, Jesus uses titles of himself that are used of the Father. So, yes, Jesus did call himself God.
That's not what Scripture shows.
This is begging the question. There is nothing in these verses that say, even implicitly, that the Father is the Most High. God, YHWH, is the Most High.
This has been addressed twice. Jesus is truly God and truly man. There is no problem.
The Holy Spirit is God but God is not the Holy Spirit.
jaybird
Member
how do you know the pharisees would not have wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be equal to heavenly sons of the Most High? John 10 33 could just as esily be translated to a god.
Papa Zoom
CF Ambassador
No, Jesus was / is NOT the Father. That's pretty simple. And you are wrong so stop repeating it. The Trinity doctrine does NOT say Jesus was the Father. You really don't know what you're talking about and you're just rambling about nothing now. You might as well be claiming Jesus was a frog. That's how much sense you're making.
jaybird
Member
the Father, the one that sent Jesus is not above all others?
it actually wasnt answered. you and several others have stated that Jesus is truly man and Most High many times, but that is not what i asked. how was Jesus tempted when He was the Most High?
Because the context strongly suggests otherwise, not mention that they would have thought him a lunatic. Stoning is the penalty for blasphemy, such as claiming to be God or equal to God.
And you base that on what, exactly?
That does not address my point. Where does the Bible ever equate YHWH with the Father only? Just one verse will do.
It has been answered, three times now. Jesus has both divine and human natures. Jesus's human nature would have been tempted, not his divine nature. End of story. No more straw man, please.
jaybird
Member
i never accused you or anyone of claiming Jesus was the Father, are you sure your replying to the right person?
jaybird
Member
the bible says it is profaning the name of the Most High.
2316. theos
Strong's Concordance
theos: God, a god
and the fact that Jesus responds to the pharisees, not with a statement about making Himself the Most High, but with a reference to Himself as a/the Son of the Most High and refers to psalm 82 which speaks of sons of the Most High, and calls them gods.
jaybird
Member
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
John 4 23
23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
sorry but that does not answer it because you still have this other nature that according to you is Jesus, and it did not get tempted. this would mean we could teach Jesus was tempted, or was not tempted and both would be right, but the bible says Jesus was tempted, not just one nature of Jesus.
Are you going to address my points?
If you are going to simply base your argument on that, then that means every use could be "a god."
Which is irrelevant as to whether or not Jesus is God.
Okay. So you have now excluded the Father from being Lord. Do you think that the Father is ever called Lord in Scripture? And, again, this is Paul expanding the Shema, giving it its full depth.
This doesn't support your argument.
It is answered. Let it go.
The context is He is ALL that the Father is. The reason is "the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him" Not that he is the one true God. He has a God and He stated that was the Father.