Is the vaccine effective?

[Drew]

I just want people to be aware and make a good decision based on their own health and age.

I suggest that the experts will say there are very few people who should not get the vaccine.

 

[Drew]

Where did this virus come from?
Doctors?
Medical scientists?
Who unleashed this Pandora's Box?
And now how many billions of dollars are they making from it?

All valid questions, but all irrelevant to the matter of how effective the vaccine is.

 

[Drew]

I told you in the post you here quoted, I was done with this thread. If you keep egging me on, I will report you.

Moderator edit- I was simply responding to your post. You do not get to make a statement and expect it not to be challenged just because you "are done" with the thread.

All I have done is to respond to your post one time - that is, of course, perfectly reasonable.

 

[Drew]

From the link I will post . Seems this would mean get the vaccine or leave the military IF it happens .

"Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has said he is working expeditiously to make the COVID-19 vaccine mandatory for military personnel and is expected to ask Biden to waive a federal law that requires individuals be given a choice if the vaccine is not fully licensed."

https://abc7chicago.com/military-va...or-troops-unvaccinated-mandatory-us/10934497/

No one is being forced to get the vaccine.

Employers have the right to require vaccination as a condition of employment - that is a different matter.

 

[1pet2_9]

I view it slightly differently. Everybody is being forced to get the vaccine, the same way and earthquake forces you out of the building you're in. If that's a problem, you're more than welcome to try and reason with the earthquake how you don't want to feel pressured.

 

[WIP]

Government transporting tens of thousands of unvaccinated illegal aliens and placing them all over the country.


How does this make any sense?

It makes about the same amount of sense as moving those infected with Covid-19 into nursing facilities where they can potentially infect the entire facility full of our most vulnerable people.

 

[historyb]

You should still respect them. They are making a choice for their own body from their own research and conscience.

We made the choice to vaccinate based on doing our own research and listening to our own conscience. We must allow them to make their own choices.

They should make the goood choice, the choice of Christian love and show that they care about others. Christ said love God with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Since they don't want to help thier neighbor they must hate themselves. Christians should never be selfish and Christians should have been the first in line to show how much they do care. All I can surmise is there are less Christians then I thought there were. There are a lot of pretend Christians.

There is no debate about this - the evidence is clear.

People like fiction unfortunately

there has not been enough TIME to indicate what long term effects this vaccine will have on those who have taken it

Long term effects of Covid - memory loss, intelligent loss, dependent on oxygen, possibly needing new lungs, overwhelming hospitals. You see when those who can get the shot refuse (yes some can not get the shot for legitimate reasons) to they can get covid fill up the hospitals and people who need it won't be able to get help and eventually the whole system collapses and we can kiss society good bye

believers

going on

.

What about those who have been vaccinated, but yet got Covid an have died? How do you explain that.

There are many, we can't just say oh they got the shot and then got covid and died, there is much more to the story then that

Did you watch the video crossnote posted that Adoration is watching, but has not yet replied about it?

No, nor will I watch conspiracy nuts

Breakthrough cases do happen. No vaccine is 100%.

Of course. Vaccines are not to stop a disease but to mitigate the symptoms. Heck people can still get chicken pox, measles, mumps, and rubella. If enough people get the vaccine it becomes herd immunity like the small pox. The thing is no one said "hey lets look at the long term effects, or I just want to wait with the small pox vaccine and I am glad people weren't stupid back then because small pox is so bad we wouldn't have to worry about covid because if those people who refused the vaccine were around back then small pox would have take most everyone. Every illness and disease that we no longer have to worry about is because people were smart and got the vaccine

We have been through this many times. First, the vaccines are not 100% effective. So unvaccinated people are a threat to the vaccinated. Second, the more unvaccinated people there are, the greater the likelihood that a variant will emerge against which the vaccine will not be effective. Third, unvaccinated people needlessly divert health care resources.

So, yes, the vaccinated have several legitimate reasons to be concerned about the unvaccinated.

Exactly

It is not simply "their" choice - it is a choice which affects everyone.

Yet they really don't care about others just themselves

 

[historyb]

I am out of this thread. It amazes me that people have the gull to claim the name of Christ yet be very selfish

 

[Isilwen]

They should make the goood choice, the choice of Christian love and show that they care about others. Christ said love God with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Since they don't want to help thier neighbor they must hate themselves. Christians should never be selfish and Christians should have been the first in line to show how much they do care. All I can surmise is there are less Christians then I thought there were. There are a lot of pretend Christians.

I will agree to disagree.

 

[WIP]

They should make the goood choice, the choice of Christian love and show that they care about others. Christ said love God with your whole heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Since they don't want to help thier neighbor they must hate themselves. Christians should never be selfish and Christians should have been the first in line to show how much they do care. All I can surmise is there are less Christians then I thought there were. There are a lot of pretend Christians.

By your definition, you mean. Suppose five years from now we discover that the vaccine, which is actually experimental right now, is found to be responsible for developing some form of cancer and a large majority of those who received the vaccine became ill as a result. Would it have been the "Christian" thing to do to coerce and guilt people into complying with getting the vaccine?

 

[Sister]

I think I'm taking the natural route to boost my immune system with vitamin C and D. Ill wear a mask if mandated and take regular covid tests if it comes down to that, but until this is fully fda approved, I'm going to just trust Jesus with my health.

Those who are calling people selfish for not taking the vaccine... I forgive you and hope the vaccine is safe for you. I've known three fully vaccinated so far who have gotten covid, so that was the breaker for me. It is a personal decision and God sees the heart. I'd be careful labelling anyone, because over half of America has not been vaccinated. There is a reason for that.

 

[WIP]

I'd be careful labelling anyone, because over half of America has not been vaccinated. There is a reason for that.

Actually, it is probably a little better than that. Last report I could find (August 1) shows 49.6% of US population is fully vaccinated with 57% having received at least the first dose. Of those who are eligible (12 years and older) over 58% have been fully vaccinated.

 

[Adoration]

Good video. Informaative.

I did not watch this particular video... but the one posted by crossnote earlier was from the same doctor.. It was the first and only video I am going to watch as up until this week... I had no concern over covid or the vaccine since I have chosen NOT to take it. Having to fight for my freedom to choose with my landlords... I have been forced to do some serious thinking about how I am going to cope and function in a hostile society.

I have not understood so many things in the last few years... It seems to have started with the US election... ( and no I am not attempting to go off topic )... from there came covid and for months on end... I have been shocked with how quickly the world has turned... I do not understand the arrogance... the anger... or the attempted dominance of people over people... Things that used to be FREE choice are now ignored and disrespected... It is very disturbing to me.

This thread alone gives a prime example of what I am talking about... We have two contributing members who refuse to show RESPECT of CHOICE. There is nothing that can be done about that problem... as they do not seem capable or willing of humbling themselves and using the words IN MY OPINION....Those three words allows everyone to speak freely... openly and honestly... which is what these forums are supposed to be about.

Drew ... It's a new day... and I have chosen to take you off of IGNORE... because that is not what I am about... I have read the NEW VISION for these forums... it is beautiful... and I will do everything in my power to ensure that I hold myself to a position of respect. I will also try very hard to be at peace with those who come here. I have already smelled the sweetest of aromas from certain members here.

historyb ... I remember you from another forum... and ran into the same issues... but back then it was about those who believe in Sola Scriptura. I'm sorry that you feel the need to strike out at those who do not agree with you. The fact that you will not respect free choice is sad to me... but I do respect your position... as I do Drew's position... I just don't agree with it.

The title of this OP is IS the vaccine effective? There is NOT one person here who can answer that question honestly AT THIS TIME... I am shocked at those who actually believe that by supplying statistics they have managed to find on-line that this is going to prove otherwise... NO one can RUSH time... and time is the ONLY thing that will show whether or not the vaccine was effective.

I have had a dreadful week quite honestly.... and this topic has been the cause...

I am GRATEFUL that I am able to stand behind my CHOICE... I may have to learn how to navigate my life in a different way... but by golly... I am NOT the cause of this problem...

We need to throw the BLAME GAME away.... It's toxic... and it's dangerous... NOT to mention that it is not at all a Christian way to carry ourselves.

LOL... I feel like I have just written my last will and testimony...

 

[JLB]

I did not watch this particular video... but the one posted by crossnote earlier was from the same doctor.. It was the first and only video I am going to watch as up until this week... I had no concern over covid or the vaccine since I have chosen NOT to take it. Having to fight for my freedom to choose with my landlords... I have been forced to do some serious thinking about how I am going to cope and function in a hostile society.

I have not understood so many things in the last few years... It seems to have started with the US election... ( and no I am not attempting to go off topic )... from there came covid and for months on end... I have been shocked with how quickly the world has turned... I do not understand the arrogance... the anger... or the attempted dominance of people over people... Things that used to be FREE choice are now ignored and disrespected... It is very disturbing to me.

This thread alone gives a prime example of what I am talking about... We have two contributing members who refuse to show RESPECT of CHOICE. There is nothing that can be done about that problem... as they do not seem capable or willing of humbling themselves and using the words IN MY OPINION....Those three words allows everyone to speak freely... openly and honestly... which is what these forums are supposed to be about.

Drew ... It's a new day... and I have chosen to take you off of IGNORE... because that is not what I am about... I have read the NEW VISION for these forums... it is beautiful... and I will do everything in my power to ensure that I hold myself to a position of respect. I will also try very hard to be at peace with those who come here. I have already smelled the sweetest of aromas from certain members here.

historyb ... I remember you from another forum... and ran into the same issues... but back then it was about those who believe in Sola Scriptura. I'm sorry that you feel the need to strike out at those who do not agree with you. The fact that you will not respect free choice is sad to me... but I do respect your position... as I do Drew's position... I just don't agree with it.

The title of this OP is IS the vaccine effective? There is NOT one person here who can answer that question honestly AT THIS TIME... I am shocked at those who actually believe that by supplying statistics they have managed to find on-line that this is going to prove otherwise... NO one can RUSH time... and time is the ONLY thing that will show whether or not the vaccine was effective.

I have had a dreadful week quite honestly.... and this topic has been the cause...

I am GRATEFUL that I am able to stand behind my CHOICE... I may have to learn how to navigate my life in a different way... but by golly... I am NOT the cause of this problem...

We need to throw the BLAME GAME away.... It's toxic... and it's dangerous... NOT to mention that it is not at all a Christian way to carry ourselves.

LOL... I feel like I have just written my last will and testimony...

Well said.

 

[Drew]

I will agree to disagree.

On what basis, exactly? How do you defend a choice that needlessly places the welfare of others at risk? You respect the individual's right to "choose". Well, that is all well and good if the results of that choice do not propagate out into the wider world and affect others.

The new variant is insanely contagious - when a person exercises their "right" to refuse the vaccination they are a clear and present danger to others.

I do not see how this can justified.

 

[Isilwen]

On what basis, exactly? How do you defend a choice that needlessly places the welfare of others at risk? You respect the individual's right to "choose". Well, that is all well and good if the results of that choice do not propagate out into the wider world and affect others.

The new variant is insanely contagious - when a person exercises their "right" to refuse the vaccination they are a clear and present danger to others.

I do not see how this can justified.

Because I don't have the right to force something on someone. People can make their own choices.

 

[Drew]

Because I don't have the right to force something on someone. People can make their own choices.

You are evading the central issue - when a person refuses the vaccine and then goes out into society, they are needlessly forcing a potentially serious illness on the rest of us.

It is an obvious oversimplification to make the argument that we should respect the right for people to "make their own choices". Suppose my choice is to lure sell kiddie porn. Would you "respect my right to make my own choice" in this circumstance?

 

[Adoration]

You forgive us?

Since when does appropriate rebuke require forgiveness?

YOU NEED to STOP.... This attitude of yours is inexcusable... What you are doing to those here is NOT remotely appropriate rebuke. I fear you will not be permitted to continue this discussion because you refuse to humble yourself.
To be fair... I have reported your comment to Sister. I just took you off of IGNORE this morning and already you are causing more STRIFE. Grab some RESPECT.

 

[stovebolts]

On what basis, exactly? How do you defend a choice that needlessly places the welfare of others at risk? You respect the individual's right to "choose". Well, that is all well and good if the results of that choice do not propagate out into the wider world and affect others.

The new variant is insanely contagious - when a person exercises their "right" to refuse the vaccination they are a clear and present danger to others.

I do not see how this can justified.

Drew,
At the end of the day, we are all responsible for our own actions and any consequences associated with them.

I am no more responsible for those that don’t get the vaccine than those that do.

The vaccine has shown to be effective in many ways, but it still comes down to personal choices and not everyone has to agree.

When someone chooses not to receive the vaccine, it is their God given right to do so.

 

[Drew]

We have two contributing members who refuse to show RESPECT of CHOICE.

You are correct - I do not respect people who make a choice that needlessly places others at increased risk of possible severe illness and / or death.

Suppose I my "choice" is to go out into shopping mall and open up with an AR-15. Would you show "respect of choice" in that situation?