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Is the world really searching for truth?

Rollo Tamasi said:
Baby, you don't understand.
I was just setting up Jethro for a future ploy.
This is heavy warfare here.
You don't understand.
You're so new to everything.
Click to expand...
Yeah yeah.
I understand enough.
I understand you and Mr. Jethro are good friends.
Here's a warning for ya:

DON'T GET INVOLVED!!
(unless it's to help ME)
 
wondering said:
You think the sin nature is a problem --
You ain't seen nothin' yet!!
Click to expand...
No, I think the flesh is a problem. For believers, that is.
Only unbelievers have the old nature.

Don't you remember the fundamental impulse inside of you before you were born again, and what the fundamental impulse is inside of you now, now that you are born again?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, I think the flesh is a problem. For believers, that is.
Only unbelievers have the old nature.

Don't you remember the fundamental impulse inside of you before you were born again, and what the fundamental impulse is inside of you now, now that you are born again?
Click to expand...
I agree that the flesh is a problem. I can't put together how it's a problem if it doesn't have something to guide it.
It's our sin nature that guides the flesh.

I was a nice person even before I was born again. There would have been no visible change noticeable to anyone around me. The change is internal. We become children of God, we become members of the Kingdom - which starts right here on earth.

Those who believe such as yourself also believe that the outward proof of the new birth is that we will make a practice of doing right at all times. And at all costs. I don't feel I fall into this category. So am I not born again?

It's the same as calling us sinful creatures and you would argue that we are not sinful because of our new nature.

Don't you think it's just words and semantics in this particular case?
What makes what you believe so different than what I believe?
You want to say it's the flesh that makes us sin and I want to say it's the old nature that springs up every now and then.

What's the difference?
 
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I think Jethro ran out of free giveaways.
Those Rollo embroidered wrist bands are on back order and the wondering calendars are already a collectors item.
But we do have some free Jethro crosses.


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Jethro Bodine said:
No, I think the flesh is a problem. For believers, that is.
Only unbelievers have the old nature.

Don't you remember the fundamental impulse inside of you before you were born again, and what the fundamental impulse is inside of you now, now that you are born again?
Click to expand...
And that I don't get.

wondering said:
I agree that the flesh is a problem. I can't put together how it's a problem if it doesn't have something to guide it.
It's our sin nature that guides the flesh.

I was a nice person even before I was born again. There would have been no visible change noticeable to anyone around me. The change is internal. We become children of God, we become members of the Kingdom - which starts right here on earth.

Those who believe such as yourself also believe that the outward proof of the new birth is that we will make a practice of doing right at all times. And at all costs. I don't feel I fall into this category. So am I not born again?

It's the same as calling us sinful creatures and you would argue that we are not sinful because of our new nature.

Don't you think it's just words and semantics in this particular case?
What makes what you believe so different than what I believe?
You want to say it's the flesh that makes us sin and I want to say it's the old nature that springs up every now and then.

What's the difference?
Click to expand...

And that I don't get either.

Paul says that sin resides in the flesh and that our old nature has been circumcised and crucified.

I don't think of myself as a nice person, either before I placed my faith in Jesus and after. Actually to me and I may be wrong and I'm sure you'll explain it. Being a nice person is irrelevant in the eyes of God. That's why Jesus had to die for us.

Visible change is not being nice but going the extra mile. Being nice is asking the question without listening, going the extra mile is asking the question and listening.

Whilst this whole concept does my head in and it really does. I have to settle for that fact that I have my faults, my foibles, my lack of faith BUT I HATE THEM WITH A PASSION.

That is what I focus on
 
Wrg1405 said:
And that I don't get.



And that I don't get either.

Paul says that sin resides in the flesh and that our old nature has been circumcised and crucified.

I don't think of myself as a nice person, either before I placed my faith in Jesus and after. Actually to me and I may be wrong and I'm sure you'll explain it. Being a nice person is irrelevant in the eyes of God. That's why Jesus had to die for us.

Visible change is not being nice but going the extra mile. Being nice is asking the question without listening, going the extra mile is asking the question and listening.

Whilst this whole concept does my head in and it really does. I have to settle for that fact that I have my faults, my foibles, my lack of faith BUT I HATE THEM WITH A PASSION.

That is what I focus on
Click to expand...
Wrg,
You agree with Jethro.
It's not something I particularly like to argue since it's just not that important to me.

There are 3 ways to look at the sin nature:

1. Suppression

As long as you have a mortal body, you will have a sinful nature. The Holy Spirit does not remove it.
Only death will separate you from the effects and control of the s.n. There is no distinction made between the mortal body and the heart (spirit).
A. If this is true, Jesus would have had to be sinful.
B. If this is true, Christ died needlessly since nothing in us has changed.

2. Counteraction

There is a tendency toward sin. It is counteracted by the Holy Spirit. The H.S. protects a person from falling into constant sin. The s.n. rebels against God's will for our lives. Only with the help of the H.S.can we keep it under submission.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
Romans 8.7
Galatians 5:16-17
A. The s.n. is at war with the spirit-filled life.

3. Eradication

Only the heart of man is moral. The body is amoral. Sin is eradicated; rooted out. The s.n. is removed.
Thus, sin is no longer in the heart. In the heart that is cleansed, sin is now non-existent, it is gone.

I believe in no. 2
Jethro believes in no. 3

The important concept, IMO, is that once a person is born again, the sinful nature is either kept under check or is totally gone.

Since I believe it's kept under check, I believe we still have a s.n. but the Holy Spirit helps us to counteract it.

Jethro believes that once we are born again, the sinful nature is gone and we sin only in the flesh. It's our flesh that makes us sin, not our heart.

I hope Jethro Bodine corrects any comments I made about his beliefs that may be wrong, but these are the three beliefs - there are no others in mainline Christianity.

Wondering

BTW, I agree with what you focus on.
 
wondering said:
Wrg,
You agree with Jethro.
It's not something I particularly like to argue since it's just not that important to me.

There are 3 ways to look at the sin nature:

1. Suppression

As long as you have a mortal body, you will have a sinful nature. The Holy Spirit does not remove it.
Only death will separate you from the effects and control of the s.n. There is no distinction made between the mortal body and the heart (spirit).
A. If this is true, Jesus would have had to be sinful.
B. If this is true, Christ died needlessly since nothing in us has changed.

2. Counteraction

There is a tendency toward sin. It is counteracted by the Holy Spirit. The H.S. protects a person from falling into constant sin. The s.n. rebels against God's will for our lives. Only with the help of the H.S.can we keep it under submission.
Jeremiah 17:9-10
Romans 8.7
Galatians 5:16-17
A. The s.n. is at war with the spirit-filled life.

3. Eradication

Only the heart of man is moral. The body is amoral. Sin is eradicated; rooted out. The s.n. is removed.
Thus, sin is no longer in the heart. In the heart that is cleansed, sin is now non-existent, it is gone.

I believe in no. 2
Jethro believes in no. 3

The important concept, IMO, is that once a person is born again, the sinful nature is either kept under check or is totally gone.

Since I believe it's kept under check, I believe we still have a s.n. but the Holy Spirit helps us to counteract it.

Jethro believes that once we are born again, the sinful nature is gone and we sin only in the flesh. It's our flesh that makes us sin, not our heart.

I hope Jethro Bodine corrects any comments I made about his beliefs that may be wrong, but these are the three beliefs - there are no others in mainline Christianity.

Wondering

BTW, I agree with what you focus on.
Click to expand...

To be honest as said both points of view does my head in. I can see both sides of the argument and I cannot settle on one or the other. That's cause I know myself. A man who will wake up tomorrow and will be a grumpy git.

I have to focus on Jesus that I am a grumpy git and don't want be so. But what is more important is to know that despite this I'm still loved
 
Wrg1405 said:
I have to settle for that fact that I have my faults, my foibles, my lack of faith BUT I HATE THEM WITH A PASSION.
Click to expand...
BINGO!

That's the new you.
You're old you hated the invasion of righteousness into your life. That 'you' is gone.
Now when 'flesh' acts up your struggle is with sin. Before you were born again your struggle was with righteousness....you know, all that stuff that interfered with your passion for sin.
 
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