Is there a psychological and demonic side to homosexuality?

[AHIMSA]

My own emotions and intellect told me so, but that wasn't really what God was telling me. It would have cost me too much to listen to God at that time, a price I wasn't willing to pay.

Well, God is not "telling me" that homosexuality is wrong. This is the problem. You decry emotion, intuition and above all, experience, as being valid in relation to God whenever it seemingly contradicts something in scripture....when infact the judgement that scripture is an infallible guide for all problems is a judgement made by one's religious experience.

On this basis we simply can not make moral discernments because "scripture says so". Scripture does not nullify experience because the belief that scripture is innerrant is a conviction in itself- not verifiable outside of experience itself. There has to be an intellectual, emotional or physical consequence to something before we can say it demonstratably evil or wrong.

 

[Quath]

Quath' show me in the Bible were it says that so called interracial marriage is wrong.

This issue like just about every issue can be supported with and opposed with Bible verses. I already mentioned why people believe the Bible is against interracial marriage. Here are a few quick ones I could find:

God says not to marry the other races:
Deuteronomy 7 - When the LORD your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nationsâ€â€the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you- and when the LORD your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy. Do not intermarry with them.

The Israelites had been taught it was wrong for Moses to marry a Cushite. They did not expect for God to make an exception though:
Numbers 12 - Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. "Has the LORD spoken only through Moses?" they asked. "Hasn't he also spoken through us?" And the LORD heard this.

People interpret race as a "kind":
Leviticus 19:19 - 'Keep my decrees. 'Do not mate different kinds of animals.

An example of the ills of interracial marriages:
Nehemiah 13:23-25 - Moreover, in those days I saw men of Judah who had married women from Ashdod, Ammon and Moab. Half of their children spoke the language of Ashdod or the language of one of the other peoples, and did not know how to speak the language of Judah. I rebuked them and called curses down on them. I beat some of the men and pulled out their hair. I made them take an oath in God's name and said: "You are not to give your daughters in marriage to their sons, nor are you to take their daughters in marriage for your sons or for yourselves.

Now all of these examples can also be easily dismissed. Just say something like "What God really meant....." and then change it to your heart's content.

However, you can do the exact same thing with homosexuality. All you have to do is say "What God really meant was for that particular group not to commit homosexuality...." or "What God really meant was for a heterosexual to act homosexual..." or "What God really meant was that pedophilia is wrong..."

In 30 years, look back at this and I think you will find most CHristian saying these things. But will the pattern repeat itself with a new thing that Christians say that God opposes?

 

[Lewis]

The Bible is not talking about color Quath' it always talks about heathen nations' or nations of people that are antagonistic to God. People back then did not get into the color thing. God don't care about the color. But if you are a people that is against His system of things He did not want His people fooling around with these people. Moses came from the tribe of Shem' which were a brown type people anyway. Cushites are from the tribe of Ham which were a darker people.

 

[Veritas]

AHIMSA wrote:
Well, God is not "telling me" that homosexuality is wrong.

And how exactly do you know what God is telling you?

You decry emotion, intuition and above all, experience, as being valid in relation to God whenever it seemingly contradicts something in scripture.

Emotion, intuition, and experience all change, and they always will. Scripture hasn't; it provides us with an unchanging reference.

when infact the judgement that scripture is an infallible guide for all problems is a judgement made by one's religious experience.

It is faith, yes. But certainly not an unreasonable faith.

On this basis we simply can not make moral discernments because "scripture says so". Scripture does not nullify experience because the belief that scripture is innerrant is a conviction in itself- not verifiable outside of experience itself.

That doesn't make any sense. Nothing is verifiable outside of experience. According to your reasoning, everthing and anything would be nullified.

There has to be an intellectual, emotional or physical consequence to something before we can say it demonstratably evil or wrong.

But the question is: How do you determine that the consequence IS wrong?

Do you understand that it all changes if you have no reference. For example, now, homosexual acts are on their way to be accepted by popular culture because the consequences of those acts are being deemed acceptable. But they are the same consequences, in the recent past, that were deemed UNacceptable by our popular culture. So, where does it stop? That is my fear.

Something like pedophilia, which now, is still deemed evil by popular culture, may not be in the future. There are already people in Washington lobbying to lower the age of consent. The NAMBLA (North. American Man Boy Love Asso.) is gaining steam. Spain's age of consent is already around 12, and they are a hot spot for travelers "looking for a good time" because of that. Also, the same arguements can be made for people enganging in pedophilia as they can with homosexuality ie. they are just born that way. And pedophilia has been completely accepted by cultures in the distant past. ie Greeks and Romans, as a part of a healthy upbringing. So, what's to stop this? Or does it matter to you?

 

[Quath]

The Bible is not talking about color Quath' it always talks about heathen nations' or nations of people that are antagonistic to God. People back then did not get into the color thing. God don't care about the color. But if you are a people that is against His system of things He did not want His people fooling around with these people. Moses came from the tribe of Shem' which were a brown type people anyway. Cushites are from the tribe of Ham which were a darker people.

That is the common Christian belief now. But that is not what the common Christian belief was in America 50 years ago.

This leads to a tough question. If interracial marriage was not found in the Bible and yet most American Christians did find such scripture in the Bible, where did it all go wrong? Did American Christians not have the holy spirit to guide them? Or do modern Christians lack the holy spirit to guide them?

After all if the message is not suppose to have changed, then one large group of Christians (past or present) did not understand the Bible.

But they are the same consequences, in the recent past, that were deemed UNacceptable by our popular culture. So, where does it stop? That is my fear.

I don't think they were stopped because of consequence but because of religious beliefs and the "yuckiness" feeling it gave people who thought about it.

Something like pedophilia, which now, is still deemed evil by popular culture, may not be in the future. There are already people in Washington lobbying to lower the age of consent. The NAMBLA (North. American Man Boy Love Asso.) is gaining steam. Spain's age of consent is already around 12, and they are a hot spot for travelers "looking for a good time" because of that. Also, the same arguements can be made for people enganging in pedophilia as they can with homosexuality ie. they are just born that way. And pedophilia has been completely accepted by cultures in the distant past. ie Greeks and Romans, as a part of a healthy upbringing. So, what's to stop this? Or does it matter to you?

I think in a sense, you kind of answered this. If you go back into the past, having sex with 14 year olds was not considered bad at all. (And this was also during the Middle ages when Christianit dominated.) It was quite normal. But popular culture has moved away from that.

Will it move back to that? It doesn't seem to. You will find some countries that lag on political issues (Kuwait gave women the right to vote in 2006). However, for the most part, society has determined that adults and children should not have sex. Here are some of the things that may change though:

1. It becomes more acceptable for children of the same age to have sex.

2. It may become acceptable in the far future for people who have a pedophile nature to have virtual sex with a computer program.

However, society seems pretty clear that it wants adults and children not to have sex.

 

[Rick W]

Quath,
If underage sex is an immoral act today how can you be so sure that restriction from intergenerational relationships will be safe from change, progress and tolerance in the future?


Question to you Quath:
Should those who reach puberty have freedom of choice with what they can do with their own bodies or not?

 

[Lewis]

Quath these views were taught' starting out from Europe. And it is amazing how you can get people to believe things. When you put in the peoples minds that this is right. Or I am right. Just like the brain washing of the KKK. People will believe it. The curse of Ham' even though some knew it was wrong back then. Was a way to keep the darker man in his place' as set by the lighter man. There is a study I did where as in the 15th and 16th centuries Europeans started to go by theories as though they wer right. This all helped make things worse. If you want to know some of this stuff' this link is a good place to start. And the guy who wrote this link is of Euro decent.
http://www.christianodyssey.org/bible/africans.html

 

[Quath]

If underage sex is an immoral act today how can you be so sure that restriction from intergenerational relationships is safe from change, progress and tolerance in the future?

There is no guarantee, but if I look at how society has changed, it seems that sex between adults and minors will stay taboo. It has actively backed away from acceptance to rejection of it. Maybe it could reverse itself, but I see nothing that would motivate such a change. But I do see that as cultures prosper, they tend to broaden the time a person is considered a "child."

Should those who reach puberty have freedom of choice with what they can do with their own bodies or not?

Children only have limited rights and society is ok with that. The drinking age and smoking age has been raised. They may have some rights with their body, but society says that it can rule overall on what rights a child really does have.

In some sense, I see society becoming more accepting of similar aged children being sexual (though for the most part it is still very uncomfortable with the idea). I think this is because kids of a similar age have a hard time trying to take advantage of someone (compared to how easily it would be for an adult to take advantage of a situation). But I think that society will try to preach abstinance while acknowledging that the kids are dealing with some powerful harmones and may have sex.

Quath these views were taught' starting out from Europe. And it is amazing how you can get people to believe things. When you put in the peoples minds that this is right. Or I am right. Just like the brain washing of the KKK. People will believe it. The curse of Ham' even though some knew it was wrong back then. Was a way to keep the darker man in his place' as set by the lighter man. There is a study I did where as in the 15th and 16th centuries Europeans started to go by theories as though they wer right. This all helped make things worse. If you want to know some of this stuff' this link is a good place to start. And the guy who wrote this link is not is of Euro decent.
http://www.christianodyssey.org/bible/africans.html

My grandmother also told me about wht the blacks were cursed by Noah. She was so mad that Christians today were ignoring Biblical principles and giving into liberal beliefs.

I agree with you that it is amazing how you can get people to believe things. Whites wanted to feel superior to blacks and they formed their theology to fit this belief. Nazis wanted to feel superior to the Jews and they did likewise. Heterosexuals are also doing the exact same thing.

 

[Rick W]

Question to you Quath:
Should those who reach puberty have freedom of choice with what they can do with their own bodies or not?

Children only have limited rights and society is ok with that. The drinking age and smoking age has been raised. They may have some rights with their body, but society says that it can rule overall on what rights a child really does have.

Yes, yes. I know all that.
What do YOU think?

 

[Quath]

Yes, yes. I know all that.
What do YOU think?

Personally, I am in favor of a law where sex is only acceptable for an age range until you get to be an adult. So maybe at 17, the acceptable age range is 24 months around your birthday. At 14, maybe it is just 12 months.

I think that at a social level, parents should promote abstinance and also give good sex education. Birth control should be available. Parents should keep good track of where their kids are to limit the opportunities to engage in sex.

I remember at that age the strong desires. I also remember that I was a little frightened of the concept of sex, but I would never have admitted it. I remember a girl inviting me to her house to go swimming when I was 14. (She was a year or two younger). She was quite the wild child. I remember my mother not allowing me to go for the same reasons I wanted to go. In hindsight, I am glad she stopped me. However, if she had been too controlling about it, I may have done it just to reaffirm my abilities to make decisions about my body.

It is a fine line at times.

 

[Rick W]

thank you.

I'm assuming that's your opinion apart from society in general.

The question, "Should those who reach puberty have freedom of choice with what they can do with their own bodies or not?" will be the spearhead used in the fight for tolerance of "sex after puberty" and intergenerational relationships much looser than the opinion you've posted. "Sex after puberty" will mean just that... immediately after puberty it should be ok for him or her to make up their own minds about their bodies, regardless of what society thinks, especially the "old" society of today as viewed from tomorrow.

Our views, or yours, will not be acceptable forever. And as Sputnikboy just loves to point out... "there is no reference in the bible" will be another of the arguments put forth to get the "age of consent" lowered to puberty no matter what age that may be. Period. It'll be by steps, by condition at first, having nothing to do with drinking or smoking. Once those conditions are accepted the smaller pieces of condition can then be fought separately with focus. Much like a brick wall that once a couple bricks are removed the others can be easily eliminated no matter how many there are. The wall's strength is compromised by the fall of a few. So when you hear, "Should those who reach puberty have freedom of choice with what they can do with their own bodies or not?" are you going to be discriminating, bigoted, without tolerance in your views or will you capitulate to those advocating sex on consent at a much lower age than you believe today?

 

[Lewis]

And the guy who wrote this link is of Euro decent.

This is what I meant to say Quath.

 

[Solo]

Well, God is not "telling me" that homosexuality is wrong. This is the problem. You decry emotion, intuition and above all, experience, as being valid in relation to God whenever it seemingly contradicts something in scripture....when infact the judgement that scripture is an infallible guide for all problems is a judgement made by one's religious experience.

On this basis we simply can not make moral discernments because "scripture says so". Scripture does not nullify experience because the belief that scripture is innerrant is a conviction in itself- not verifiable outside of experience itself. There has to be an intellectual, emotional or physical consequence to something before we can say it demonstratably evil or wrong.

The problem is not that "God is not telling you that homosexuality is wrong"; the problem is that you believing God's word. Jesus explains well why you remain in a state of unbelief in John 3.

First, God is telling you that homosexuality is wrong in His word:

• 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. Romans 1:27-31

Secondly, In John 3 Jesus speaks of those who refuse to come to the light for their deeds would be manifested as evil.

• 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:18-21

 

[AHIMSA]

The problem is that millions of Christians decry homosexual acts as wrong and evil without actually examining whether or not homosexuality is yielding or producing evil.

My question is what reason do I personally have to feel that my sexuality is evil outside of what scripture tells me? Does nobody feel that if scripture says something is evil it should also yield evil fruit?

The problem is that you are telling me all the "evil" consequences of my sexuality will be felt in the metaphysical or theological realm, even if nothing of that will be felt here. And then you wonder why the world is having a difficult time accepting your message! All you can do is point to a few obscure passages in a book a say the issue is settled. This is not enough for thinking people, we need more than words and blanket, unsupported statements. It shouldn't be enough for a person of God either.

 

[Relic]

.



Proverbs 29:27
An unjust man is an abomination to the just: and he that is upright in the way is abomination to the wicked.


However! No one can escape the truth of God.

People can have discussions all they want about what the permissible age to have sex with young people should or should not be, or about if pedophilias are going to gain ground along with the homosexuals or not, or whether homosexuals are going to be considered normal or not.

People can choose to live in the perversions they have set in their minds and in the lies want to believe in, and they can act them out in their lives all they want. However, the truth and consequences catches up to everyone in the end of a matter.

So go ahead, try to justify perversions as you might. But, what God deems as perverted (transgression) will never take the place righteousness! NEVER!
Sin will always be pruned from the vine, it will always be separated from the wheat. Sin will always be purged away from those that are HIS!

Psalm 79:9
Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of thy name: and deliver us, and purge away our sins, for thy name's sake.

Matthew 3:12
Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


The truth in scripture is for those that are HIS to take. They that are HIS purge the impurities from out of thier lives. (a process all "Christians" must go through till the day of Christ return. )

But, the unjust will still be unjust. They have no place in the Kingdom of heaven. But are making their own place with the devil!


Psalm 10:4
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.

Psalm 5:4
For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee.

Proverbs 29:16
When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Psalm 9:17
The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 37:28
For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.


Perversion of His Truth is a transgression against the HOLY SPIRIT. And this is why wicked people refuse to accept Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior... Because Jesus takes away sin, but the wicked want to hold onto it!

Sin = wicked-ness Repent all ye wicked! Repent and see Christ Jesus and your LORD and Savior from all that is wicked and perverted! Stop with your perverted thoughts you who are transgressor of the Holy Spirit!

Let the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus purify all that is evil from out of your life! Confess your sins, know that His truth unchanging! No one can change His truth. No one! Only perversions of His truth come by way of sin. If you refuse to live by His Holy Truth you are not of Him. To live by any perverion of His righteousness is to take side with what is opposed to His Holy Truth which will never change and can never change. No man can ever Rob God of His Truth, they can only pervert His truth. If you want to live your life in the act of perverions then you are a sinner, a transgressor of truth!

All sinners are invited to accept the merciful, the saving grace, the redeeming HOLY Spirit of Christ Jesus, who takes away the sins of the world.

.

 

[Quath]

.
The truth in scripture is for those that are HIS to take. They that are HIS purge the impurities from out of thier lives. (a process all "Christians" must go through till the day of Christ return. )

Perversion of His Truth is a transgression against the HOLY SPIRIT. And this is why wicked people refuse to accept Christ Jesus as their Lord and Savior... Because Jesus takes away sin, but the wicked want to hold onto it!

One of the problems I see is that understanding the Bible takes interpretation. There is no pure truth when there is interpretation. It is just some guesswork. Without God clarifying the problems, people ars stuck guessing.

The American Christians that opposed interracial marriages and supported slavery believed they knew how best to intepret the Bible. Modern Christians claim they know how best to interpret it. Yet humans make mistakes and they push their own prejudice into their interpretation.

Here is one very easy to see example of this:

Joshua 10:12-13 - On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel:
"O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."

So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

Now if you read this without interpretation, you would have to conclude that the Sun stopped moving and that is what lenghtened the day. That is how the Hebrews and most Christians did interpret this. However, science showed them that they were wrong. Now Christians interpret this differently because they know it is impossible for the Sun to stay still to lengthen the day.

So who is to judge what is the best way to reinterpet this? Do you assume that people must have just miscalculated time because the fighting went on for so long? Do you assume that God stopped the Earth spinning so there could be more bloodshed, but the Bible writers got it wrong? Do you assume that God bent space to make the Sun appear to be in the same place? Or do you assume that God would not ever be commanded by a man and this was mistaken? Or do you assume that God would not enjoy bloodshed and would not have extended the day so there could be more?

The problem is that you can make any of these interpretations and there is no way to be proven right or wrong. Faith is about belief without proof and that means that you can believe any of these and none may really challenge your belief.

You can extenbnd this example to slavery, interracial marriage or acceptance of homosexuality. It is all interpretation.

 

[destiny]

Quath, Lets say you told your daughters not to play around with matches because they could get burned, and not only could they get burned but they would face punishment from you if they should choose to disobey your rules.
Do you think the statements and warnings you gave your daughters are open to 'interpretation', or are they pretty self explanatory?

How would you feel if one of them said, 'well dad, I played with matches because I didn't interpret what you said as telling me I couldn't, however my other sister interpreted differently and she didn't play with the matches.'

Which one obeyed and which one put a spin on your words? ;-)

 

[Relic]

Quath, Lets say you told your daughters not to play around with matches because they could get burned, and not only could they get burned but they would face punishment from you if they should choose to disobey your rules.
Do you think the statements and warnings you gave your daughters are open to 'interpretation', or are they pretty self explanatory?

How would you feel if one of them said, 'well dad, I played with matches because I didn't interpret what you said as telling me I couldn't, however my other sister interpreted differently and she didn't play with the matches.'

Which one obeyed and which one put a spin on your words?

AMEN Destiny! Case in point! Thank you for revealing how absurd of an example Quath is trying to present.

==============================================
==============================================

One of the problems I see is that understanding the Bible takes interpretation. There is no pure truth when there is interpretation. It is just some guesswork. Without God clarifying the problems, people ars stuck guessing.

The American Christians that opposed interracial marriages and supported slavery believed they knew how best to intepret the Bible. Modern Christians claim they know how best to interpret it. Yet humans make mistakes and they push their own prejudice into their interpretation.

Here is one very easy to see example of this:

Joshua 10:12-13 - On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel:
"O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon."

So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day.

Now if you read this without interpretation, you would have to conclude that the Sun stopped moving and that is what lenghtened the day. That is how the Hebrews and most Christians did interpret this. However, science showed them that they were wrong. Now Christians interpret this differently because they know it is impossible for the Sun to stay still to lengthen the day.

So who is to judge what is the best way to reinterpet this? Do you assume that people must have just miscalculated time because the fighting went on for so long? Do you assume that God stopped the Earth spinning so there could be more bloodshed, but the Bible writers got it wrong? Do you assume that God bent space to make the Sun appear to be in the same place? Or do you assume that God would not ever be commanded by a man and this was mistaken? Or do you assume that God would not enjoy bloodshed and would not have extended the day so there could be more?

The problem is that you can make any of these interpretations and there is no way to be proven right or wrong. Faith is about belief without proof and that means that you can believe any of these and none may really challenge your belief.

You can extenbnd this example to slavery, interracial marriage or acceptance of homosexuality. It is all interpretation.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: :smt074 :roll:

"There is no pure truth when there is interpretation. It is just some guesswork"

Like those words of yours make any sense, huh Quath?

Hey Quath,
Truth... proves itself, we don't need any interpreter to prove truth to be truth! God reveals it in showing the consequences of it, be it from a good act or a bad one, be it from an a neutral act or a non-action where an action should have been taken! God's truth reveals itself, in it's own due time!
============================================


And in regards to your faulty examples:
First off, Quath, I am not one of those people who believes that every word of the bible is literal in the material sense when it is clear that what is being presented in scripture is written in metaphorical sense, and any idiot can see that it is a metaphor or a parable that is being used as an example in order to get the value of a specific moral relayed.

Also, if you want to use people who interpret the bible falsely to justify your saying no one can do anything but guess at what is right or wrong, you are barking up the wrong tree in saying so. If we were to "guess" at what is right or wrong, just the same as you suppose is being done with scripture, then the whole judicial system would be nothing but a farce because much of the judicial laws are written based on biblical morals! And yes, of course that isn't to say that some of the laws on the books are absolutely out of order with the HOLY TRUTH of God. As a matter of fact, many of the laws on the books these days are in spite of the HOLY TRUTH OF GOD. :-?


Regardless of what some people try to get away with... The proof of what is right or wrong always shows up in the end of a matter.

What I presented in that post I made still stands true no matter what you, an atheist, may think.

God's HOLY TRUTH will always stand, no matter who misinterprets it!

The MORALS that all people of God are meant to live by, which are written of in the bible, are not fuzzy or left for guessing as to the meaning of what is sin and what is not.

===============================================

And by the way Quath, Your definition of faith is so outrageous and incomplete.

Firstly, faith is not defined as you have put it to be here by your incomplete misleading definition of it, "Faith is about belief without proof"

Here is the true definition of faith shown in scripture:
Hebrews 11:1-3
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


Secondly Quath, The true definition of faith includes that "the proof of the thing unseen" is in the making! If it weren't, there wouldn't be any "report" of the thing hoped. There woudn't be a manifestation, of the thing hoped for, to even speak of.


So forget about your faulty examples Quath!

===============================================



And so, YES, there is a psychological and demonic side to homosexuality and those who advocate for it and are trapped into the snare of it are yet to see the consequences of it!


It is so outrageous how the OP gets lost in the diversion tactics of those who come to oppose it! And what it takes to get a thread back on track! sheesh! :-?

.

 

[LoverOfGod]

Re: Is there a psychological and demonic side to homosexuali

Relic said to start another topic on this subject so as not to hijack hers, so I thought it was interesting enough to do so.

The Lord knows how I feel about the sin of homosexuality. I think a lot of my post count was tallied up from debating against it. It is a gross sin against God and ones own body when acted out.
Most homosexuals will tell you they've felt this way all their life, since childhood. So..
I am inclined to belive a person can become a homosexual through these avenues: (These are my opinions)
A child has an abusive or perverse role model, which in turn leaves the child with no spiritual covering and leaves them open to perverse demonic spirits, these demons confuse the gender and identity of the person.
OR..
A person engages in homosexual sex out of enticement or curiousity and then a double wammy occurs.
They commit a gross sin against God, plus, there is a transferance of a perverse demon from one person to the other.
I have been accused of over spiritualizing, but I believe this sort of thing is very real.

I feel there are more doorways than this, but those come to mind.

I feel like a homosexual who wants to get free needs to be completely submitted to the Holy Spirit and have must an understanding of how the enemy works.
They also need to be discipled by someone who understands both the psychological and spiritual aspects of their past.
Sometimes the Lord delivers instantly and sometime it can be a process.

Those are my opinions

Homosexuality is not genetic. People are not born with it, there is no "Gay Gene". Homosexuality is a mental disorder. Many say that they do not have a choice and they may be right because it is almost always caused by some sort of abuse, mental, physical or sexual. The human brain is highly programmable and corruptable. These abused people are suffering a condition that was caused at the hands of another, so many times it is not their fault. Under those conditions, their sin will be forgiven.

 

[destiny]

LoverOfGod...
I never said homosexuality was genetic and I never said there was a gay gene, if thats what you think my post meant. I pretty much said the same thing as you except I believe the abuse (or) a wrong type of role model created a doorway for the enemy to pervert the persons identity.
This happens in more areas than just homosexuality