What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Is there anywhere in the Bible that Jesus Freely gave material needs to the poor?

john darling said:
Hi Oz. I agree that helping the poor is definitely scriptural. There's just so much evidence to support it from all throughout both the old and new testaments. However,in post# 75 I suggested that perhaps we don't see any references to Jesus (or his disciples) handing out food because Jesus said to keep our charitable acts secret.

Something like feeding the 5 thousand is slightly different because there was an obvious miraculous aspect to it that the authors felt was worth recording for the sake of evidence that Jesus really did have God's authority.

However, simple, non-mirculous examples of helping the poor are not recorded. I believe this is probably because of Matthew 6:1-4, where Jesus commands that we do our charitable giving in secret so that only God knows. What do you think about that?
Click to expand...

John,

I think that's a very reasonable and biblical assessment that helping the poor should not be flaunted. However, there is also this biblical balance in James 2:14-18 (NLT):

'14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”'

The fact that believers will have a final judgment call based on, 'when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters' (hungry, thirsty, hospitality, clothing, caring for the sick, visiting the prisoners) (Matt 25:40 NLT) is a sobering challenge to me when I see the international and local needs that go unmet with churches that seem to be out of touch with this need.

Oz
 
I live in "The Bible Belt," USA ("1,000 miles wide, 1 inch deep", lol). There's an interesting mix of conservative, sometimes hyper-conservative Christianity and reactionary politics. We also have a good bit of poverty, crime, all that. My experiences living here have led me to believe that we need the gov't to provide a safety net, because the church is clearly not interested in helping the poor (at least 'round here) to the extent that they need it. I mean, that's a sad statement on the (Protestant) church, but...yeah...

...and I think The Good News is for the poor. The poor in tangible things, the poor in spirit, those who recognize they lack. The early Christians were mostly low status people--poor people, slaves, women; people who didn't matter, really--so I find it disturbing when modern day Christians confuse hyper-capitalist politics w/ the Christianity. Christianity is not only the one true faith, its the faith of the poor, the oppressed, the widow and the orphan...
 
OzSpen said:
John,

I think that's a very reasonable and biblical assessment that helping the poor should not be flaunted. However, there is also this biblical balance in James 2:14-18 (NLT):

'14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?

17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”'

The fact that believers will have a final judgment call based on, 'when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters' (hungry, thirsty, hospitality, clothing, caring for the sick, visiting the prisoners) (Matt 25:40 NLT) is a sobering challenge to me when I see the international and local needs that go unmet with churches that seem to be out of touch with this need.

Oz
Click to expand...

Hi Oz. Thanks for that response. However, I've not understood how you are connecting your verses about helping the poor with what I shared about keeping our help for the poor secret. You've presented James verses in a way which appears to be one countering the Matthew 6 verses I posted, but I'm quite open to having misunderstood that.

I think both teachings can work together quite harmoniously. We should do what we can to show love for those around us, but when it comes specifically to charity work, Jesus said we should make efforts to keep that a secret.

It's still possible to teach about the merits of helping the poor without any need to reference our own personal situations and by doing so we can have it both ways, preaching a message while still staying true to what Jesus taught.

For example, a person may find himself in a sitaution where he wants to encourage others in their efforts to help the poor, and he reasons within himself that his own personal experiences could be good to share. However, he hesitates because he remembers what Jesus said about keeping it secret. One solution is to share the experience from a less personal perspective, perhaps by saying something like, "I think giving blankets to the homeless on cold nights is a fantastic way to show love for our neighbor". Even though the guy is speaking from personally experience (i.e. he knows what he's saying because he's actually done it) there was no need for him to say it as his personally testimony in order for the theory to still be true.

There may be situations where it feels like it would be better to go ahead and talk about our charity if we believe it really would advance the Kingdom of Heaven by doing so, but I think those times would be the exception and even then, we'd have to weigh up losing our reward for by doing so. Jesus didn't say we'd necessarily be punished for not keeping our charity secret, but that we would lose eternal reward for the sake of the temporary earthly reward which comes in the form of respectability and people thinking well of us when we mention our charitable giving.

And, finally, I think the reasoning for WHY Jesus gave this teaching about secret charity is worth mentioning, too.

MT 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

MT 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

MT 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

MT 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

None of us ever really thinks we are sounding the trumpet or wanting to be seen of men. We usually think to ourselves, "I'm not like that person Jesus was describing" but then again, the heart is deceitful above all things. We reason that we understand the spiritual dangers of wanting others to think well of us so when we talk about our charity we do so in a reasonable way without bragging. However, that, isn't really consistent with what Jesus said. His solution for dealing with the problem was to keep it secret, full stop.

I believe this kind of teaching is part of what it means to be born again into a completely new set of values where we don't see any reason to bring ourselves into the equation when talking about goodness. We talk about goodness just for the sake of goodness; such a contrary way compared to a world where self promotion is normal.
 
john darling said:
Hi Oz. Thanks for that response. However, I've not understood how you are connecting your verses about helping the poor with what I shared about keeping our help for the poor secret. You've presented James verses in a way which appears to be one countering the Matthew 6 verses I posted, but I'm quite open to having misunderstood that.

I think both teachings can work together quite harmoniously. We should do what we can to show love for those around us, but when it comes specifically to charity work, Jesus said we should make efforts to keep that a secret.

It's still possible to teach about the merits of helping the poor without any need to reference our own personal situations and by doing so we can have it both ways, preaching a message while still staying true to what Jesus taught.

For example, a person may find himself in a sitaution where he wants to encourage others in their efforts to help the poor, and he reasons within himself that his own personal experiences could be good to share. However, he hesitates because he remembers what Jesus said about keeping it secret. One solution is to share the experience from a less personal perspective, perhaps by saying something like, "I think giving blankets to the homeless on cold nights is a fantastic way to show love for our neighbor". Even though the guy is speaking from personally experience (i.e. he knows what he's saying because he's actually done it) there was no need for him to say it as his personally testimony in order for the theory to still be true.

There may be situations where it feels like it would be better to go ahead and talk about our charity if we believe it really would advance the Kingdom of Heaven by doing so, but I think those times would be the exception and even then, we'd have to weigh up losing our reward for by doing so. Jesus didn't say we'd necessarily be punished for not keeping our charity secret, but that we would lose eternal reward for the sake of the temporary earthly reward which comes in the form of respectability and people thinking well of us when we mention our charitable giving.

And, finally, I think the reasoning for WHY Jesus gave this teaching about secret charity is worth mentioning, too.

MT 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

MT 6:2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

MT 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:

MT 6:4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

None of us ever really thinks we are sounding the trumpet or wanting to be seen of men. We usually think to ourselves, "I'm not like that person Jesus was describing" but then again, the heart is deceitful above all things. We reason that we understand the spiritual dangers of wanting others to think well of us so when we talk about our charity we do so in a reasonable way without bragging. However, that, isn't really consistent with what Jesus said. His solution for dealing with the problem was to keep it secret, full stop.

I believe this kind of teaching is part of what it means to be born again into a completely new set of values where we don't see any reason to bring ourselves into the equation when talking about goodness. We talk about goodness just for the sake of goodness; such a contrary way compared to a world where self promotion is normal.
Click to expand...

John,

In light of what you have said here, how do you understand James 2: 18 (NLT): 'I will show you my faith by my good deeds'? How can faith be shown in good deeds if it remains secret with no connection between the giver and the good gift?

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
John,

In light of what you have said here, how do you understand James 2: 18 (NLT): 'I will show you my faith by my good deeds'? How can faith be shown in good deeds if it remains secret with no connection between the giver and the good gift?

Oz
Click to expand...


Hi Ozspen. Good question. As I suggested earlier, I think it's a matter of finding a way where both teachings can be reconciled without dismissing one or the other on the bases of one verse overriding the other.

What you've suggested is very similar to what Jesus said. In the same sermon where he mentions secret giving, he also says, "let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works" Mt 5:16. Compare that with, " do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charity giving may be done in secret so that others will not know about it but only your father in Heaven" Mt 6:1-4.

When you compare the two, there is the appearance of a contradiction. But have a look at the context of those good works mentioned in the Mt 5 let-your-light-shine verse.

The context of those comments centers around being persecuted for righteousness sake. Persecution doesn't come for no reason. It comes when we make a stand for the teachings of Jesus, the same way people persecuted Jesus in his day when he taught the truth. Sometimes the truth shines a light in the darkness and we, as imperfect people, usually don't like that. John 3:20-21. It causes us to react, either by exposing our bad deeds, or our lack of good deeds.

For example, teaching about keeping our charity secret is a good work. I'm doing a good work by teaching the same thing Jesus taught. I am letting my light shine by promoting obedience to Jesus. The same happens with any teaching of Jesus for any person. You seem to be handling it fairly well (for which I am grateful) but not everyone does. I've had some people become very angry over being challenged about their confessions of charity giving.

They see no problem with disregarding what Jesus said. They've reasoned that they can talk about their charity giving without "boasting" and therefore they are an exception to the rule which Jesus either didn't understand or just forgot to mention. If only these people had been around in Jesus' time to explain to him all their various reasons, maybe Jesus would have given a more informed command instead of the blanket rule to keep charity giving (in general) secret. I say this tongue-in-cheek. These people don't use the same words I just did to explain the situation, but the way I've suggested it here is the spirit of what their words communicate; i.e. they believe they have a better understanding of truth than Jesus did, but they know they can't come right out and say that so their arguments usually take the form of "what Jesus meant to say was..."

I've been banned from forums for not backing down on this teaching. I've been called names and told that I'm not really a Christian, and just some genuinely hurtful stuff, all because people don't want to hear that they are not an exception and Jesus really did mean what he said the way he said it.

The message (or gospel) is not "help the poor". The message (or gospel) is "follow Jesus" which includes charity giving, but also so much more. Following Jesus means confronting ourselves at our worst; challenging our greed, pride, self righteousness, hypocrisy and respectability. Confronting these issues, these are the good works that God wants us to shine before men and it is the confronting of these issues which will cause people to persecute us.

Back to charity giving, I'm not suggesting that it will always be possible to keep our charity completely secret. Cloaks of invisibility do not exist, so if we want to hand blankets out to the poor on the streets someone is going to see us. Perhaps we want to invite a friend to come help us with the charity work because we want to encourage them. In order to do so, they must know that we are giving charity and it will no longer be secret. In that situation, I must weigh the cost. I will lose at least some reward for letting this person know about my charity giving, but at the same time I'm encouraging this person to formulate their own convictions about the goodness of charity giving through hands-on experience, which to me is worth it.

God is no fool. He knows the difference between the genuine and the fake. So, when we feel tempted to talk about our charity giving, from a personal perspective as in "I did this" or "I do that", we should stop for a moment and ask ourselves if it's really necessary to make it about us personally. Do we really believe it's worth losing eternal rewards to mention the charity giving in a personal context such as "I give blankets to the homeless" rather than a general context of, "giving blankets to the homeless is a good expression of loving our neighbor". Or maybe a more fundamental question which needs to be asked first is, do we really believe Jesus when he said that we'd lose eternal rewards for mentioning our charity giving?

I do. I believe Jesus meant exactly what he said.

I look forward to your response.
 
john darling said:
Hi Ozspen. Good question. As I suggested earlier, I think it's a matter of finding a way where both teachings can be reconciled without dismissing one or the other on the bases of one verse overriding the other.

What you've suggested is very similar to what Jesus said. In the same sermon where he mentions secret giving, he also says, "let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works" Mt 5:16. Compare that with, " do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charity giving may be done in secret so that others will not know about it but only your father in Heaven" Mt 6:1-4.

When you compare the two, there is the appearance of a contradiction. But have a look at the context of those good works mentioned in the Mt 5 let-your-light-shine verse.

The context of those comments centers around being persecuted for righteousness sake. Persecution doesn't come for no reason. It comes when we make a stand for the teachings of Jesus, the same way people persecuted Jesus in his day when he taught the truth. Sometimes the truth shines a light in the darkness and we, as imperfect people, usually don't like that. John 3:20-21. It causes us to react, either by exposing our bad deeds, or our lack of good deeds.

For example, teaching about keeping our charity secret is a good work. I'm doing a good work by teaching the same thing Jesus taught. I am letting my light shine by promoting obedience to Jesus. The same happens with any teaching of Jesus for any person. You seem to be handling it fairly well (for which I am grateful) but not everyone does. I've had some people become very angry over being challenged about their confessions of charity giving.

They see no problem with disregarding what Jesus said. They've reasoned that they can talk about their charity giving without "boasting" and therefore they are an exception to the rule which Jesus either didn't understand or just forgot to mention. If only these people had been around in Jesus' time to explain to him all their various reasons, maybe Jesus would have given a more informed command instead of the blanket rule to keep charity giving (in general) secret. I say this tongue-in-cheek. These people don't use the same words I just did to explain the situation, but the way I've suggested it here is the spirit of what their words communicate; i.e. they believe they have a better understanding of truth than Jesus did, but they know they can't come right out and say that so their arguments usually take the form of "what Jesus meant to say was..."

I've been banned from forums for not backing down on this teaching. I've been called names and told that I'm not really a Christian, and just some genuinely hurtful stuff, all because people don't want to hear that they are not an exception and Jesus really did mean what he said the way he said it.

The message (or gospel) is not "help the poor". The message (or gospel) is "follow Jesus" which includes charity giving, but also so much more. Following Jesus means confronting ourselves at our worst; challenging our greed, pride, self righteousness, hypocrisy and respectability. Confronting these issues, these are the good works that God wants us to shine before men and it is the confronting of these issues which will cause people to persecute us.

Back to charity giving, I'm not suggesting that it will always be possible to keep our charity completely secret. Cloaks of invisibility do not exist, so if we want to hand blankets out to the poor on the streets someone is going to see us. Perhaps we want to invite a friend to come help us with the charity work because we want to encourage them. In order to do so, they must know that we are giving charity and it will no longer be secret. In that situation, I must weigh the cost. I will lose at least some reward for letting this person know about my charity giving, but at the same time I'm encouraging this person to formulate their own convictions about the goodness of charity giving through hands-on experience, which to me is worth it.

God is no fool. He knows the difference between the genuine and the fake. So, when we feel tempted to talk about our charity giving, from a personal perspective as in "I did this" or "I do that", we should stop for a moment and ask ourselves if it's really necessary to make it about us personally. Do we really believe it's worth losing eternal rewards to mention the charity giving in a personal context such as "I give blankets to the homeless" rather than a general context of, "giving blankets to the homeless is a good expression of loving our neighbor". Or maybe a more fundamental question which needs to be asked first is, do we really believe Jesus when he said that we'd lose eternal rewards for mentioning our charity giving?

I do. I believe Jesus meant exactly what he said.

I look forward to your response.
Click to expand...

John,

I think you could be missing something that Jesus was addressing in Matt 6:1-4 (ESV). What was the purpose for his saying to 'beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them' (v. 2)? In Matt 5:7 (ESV) he had taught a fundamental that covers all charity and benevolent giving: 'Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy' (Matt 5:7 ESV).

The OT taught that giving to the poor was required by the law of God (Ex 23:10-11; 30:15; Lev 19:10; Deut 15:7-11; Jer 22:16; Dan 4;27; Amos 2:6-7) and in the NT (Matt 7:12; Luke 6:36, 38).

What was the issue that Jesus was addressing in Matt 6:1-4 (ESV) that is clarified in v. 2, 'Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward'. It seems that Jesus was addressing a particular problem with Jews in the synagogues - perhaps the Pharisees - who were advertising their gifts to the poor through trumpet blasts. Jesus often used symbolic language and he may be using it here because it is probably unlikely that literal trumpet blasts would be allowed in the synagogue. So the Pharisees seem to be publicly advertising the fact they were giving gifts and the Lord condemned this for its hypocrisy.

What was the hypocrisy? They pretended to be giving but what they wanted was to receive honour from people. Jesus' words are penetrating: 'Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward'.

My conclusion is that Jesus was addressing a particular situation of the Jews (probably the Pharisees) and their hypocrisy. The giving in secret was not meant to be addressed to all people (otherwise it would clash with James 2:14-18 ESV) and also Matt 5:16 (ESV): 'Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven'.

Now that reply may not be what you were expecting. Are you open to consider that understanding as a viable, contextual interpretation?

Oz
 
Last edited:
Hi Ozspen,

OzSpen said:
The giving in secret was not meant to be addressed to all people (otherwise it would clash with James 2:14-18 ESV) and also Matt 5:16 (ESV): 'Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven'.
Click to expand...

Hi Ozspen I already addressed this apparent contradiction in my earlier response. Can you please give a response to that explanation?

OzSpen said:
It seems that Jesus was addressing a particular problem with Jews in the synagogues - perhaps the Pharisees - who were advertising their gifts to the poor through trumpet blasts. Jesus often used symbolic language and he may be using it here because it is probably unlikely that literal trumpet blasts would be allowed in the synagogue. So the Pharisees seem to be publicly advertising the fact they were giving gifts and the Lord condemned this for its hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

Jesus wasn't addressing problems that only the pharisees have. He used them as an example, which lesson is meant to apply to anyone who would follow Jesus. Chapters 5,6, and 7 of Matthew, where we're getting these teachings from, are called the "Sermon on the mount" and was addressed to specifically to his disciples (Mt 5:1).

It's not like the pharisees are some special class of people who have problems no other human being has. He used them as an example because they were considered to be the spiritual leadership at the time. In other words, Jesus was showing that even the top spiritual leaders at the time still had problems. Their positions of leadership or supposed spirituality authority were no excuse for their bad behavior. The lesson was still being addressed to Jesus' disciples.

For your argument to be relevant, we would need to do three things:
1) we'd need to ignore the fact that Jesus was talking specifically to his disciples.
2) We'd need to assume that Jesus was, for some reason, giving his disciples instructions which do not relate to them being his disciples even though he was addressing them as disciples.
3) We would need to pretend that only pharisees have problems with craving the respectability that comes from making our charity known to others.

[EDIT: I've just re-read the verses and "the pharisees" aren't even mentioned. Jesus just talks about hypocrites in the synagogue. ]

Now, consider the fruit of your argument. What does it actually lead to? If Jesus' instructions were only aimed at the pharisees (as you suggest), then that leaves us Christians free to talk about our charitable giving all we like, doesn't it? All that is really achieved with your reasoning is that we don't have to follow Jesus' teaching on this issue. It's just a convenient doctrine which makes Jesus' teaching of no effect.

Think about that for a moment. You've supported an argument which circumvents a command of Jesus. Is it really so important to you that have the right to say, "I perform this type of charity"? Is it so important for you to let others know that you personally do this kind or that kind of charity? I think Jesus really did know what he was talking about.
 
john darling said:
Hi Ozspen,
Think about that for a moment. You've supported an argument which circumvents a command of Jesus. Is it really so important to you that have the right to say, "I perform this type of charity"? Is it so important for you to let others know that you personally do this kind or that kind of charity? I think Jesus really did know what he was talking about.
Click to expand...

I do not accept your allegations against me. I'm not interested in a fight about it. Your tone against me has changed from a couple of posts ago. If you continue with this hostility towards me, I will not be responding any further.

Oz
 
Hi Ozspen.

No allegations. Just looking at what you are saying and comparing it to what Jesus said as part of the discussion. Any time we talk about the teachings of Jesus, motivations will be involved. The arguments you've given are not consistent with what the scripture says, either literally or in the context. I'm trying to understand why there is this inconsistency and I believe motivations are involved.

I'm not accusing you, but rather trying to bring these various motivations into the light for discussion. How about we start more simply. What did you think about my comments that these teachings were specifically addressed to Jesus' disciples (Mt 5:1) as compared to your argument that Jesus was addressing a problem specific to those who are not his disciples?
 
john darling said:
Hi Ozspen.

No allegations. Just looking at what you are saying and comparing it to what Jesus said as part of the discussion. Any time we talk about the teachings of Jesus, motivations will be involved. The arguments you've given are not consistent with what the scripture says, either literally or in the context. I'm trying to understand why there is this inconsistency and I believe motivations are involved.

I'm not accusing you, but rather trying to bring these various motivations into the light for discussion. How about we start more simply. What did you think about my comments that these teachings were specifically addressed to Jesus' disciples (Mt 5:1) as compared to your argument that Jesus was addressing a problem specific to those who are not his disciples?
Click to expand...

Not inconsistency, but a different interpretation to yours.
 
Sure, I understand that we will sometimes interpret scripture differently. I believe I allowed some room for that by suggesting there may be times when we feel it really is important, or we feel it's worth losing our eternal reward for the sake of talking about our personal charity giving, so long as we are conscious that we are making an exception.

Then there is also the question of interpreting what charity means in practical terms. Most of us understand that something like giving money to the poor counts as charity. But what about other more obscure charitable actions like visiting prisoners in jail or patients in a hospital, where time, rather than money, is involved?

Or, what about free labor, where we perform an action or job for someone without asking for any payment in return just because we know they need help? These are different interpretations on what constitutes "charity".

There is also room for interpretation on WHO needs the charity. God may guide us in different ways when it comes to working out who we should give our time and resources to. Some people may feel called to help the homeless while others feel called to help orphans while still others may feel called to help the sick or prisoners. Our interpretations on who is the most worthy of our help will differ, but that's okay because God may want us to differ in these areas so we spread out a bit more. In other words, these different interpretations are okay because do not contradict the basic teaching of showing love for our neighbor.

However, the kind of interpretation you expressed on secret giving was not this kind of "different-but-still-consistent" interpretation.

Jesus was specifically talking to his disciples (Mt 5:1). The record states this. Jesus explained the problem (making our charity public Mt 6:1), using an example to describe why it's a problem (respectability and hypocrisy Mt 6:2), and gave a solution to the problem (a command to keep charity secret so that only God knows Mt 6:3-4). The record states all of this clearly.

Your interpretation is inconsistent with this. You say Jesus was not teaching his disciples or commanding them. You say Jesus was merely commenting on a problem specific to Jewish religious leaders, implying that the teaching about keeping charity secret does not apply to us as Christians and therefore we do not need to obey the command.

Your interpretation is not just different. It makes the teaching of no effect for disciples of Jesus in a situation where Jesus was clearly teaching his disciples.

Again, I'm only looking at what you've actually said, except I'm also asking why you said it. I'm looking at the motivation for why someone would continue to argue that it really is okay to talk about private charity giving when Jesus quite clearly said, don't do it. Why argue for the right to make public to the world the specifics of how we personally help the poor?
 
Just a thought. I don't think the point Jesus was making is really directed at exposing the good works or acts of charity. I believe His message is about where one's heart is. Sharing the fact that we've done good works or acts of charity is not the issue unless or until we are doing so to bring attention and glory to ourselves. That is when it becomes a problem. That's why I believe the text may seem to contradict when it really doesn't. The same is true with prayer. Jesus said to do it in secret yet, He prayed in public as well as secret. If we are praying in public or doing good works for the purpose of drawing attention to ourselves as in bragging rights then we are not doing so to the glory of God and it is wrong. However, if we are doing so to bring glory to God by demonstrating and sharing the light and love of Jesus then we are doing it for the right reason.

He picked on the Pharisees because they were arrogant and adamant about broadcasting their good deeds, prayer, and fasting and doing so not to the glory of God but to their own glory. This is well noted in the scriptures as they did not see themselves as the sinners they truly were but only saw others as sinners. How many times did they accuse or address Jesus as associating with sinners? They obviously didn't count themselves among the sinners and this is why Jesus said he didn't come for those who are well but the sick. He meant them too but they didn't see it or refused to see it.

Just my :twocents
 
WIP said:
I believe His message is about where one's heart is. Sharing the fact that we've done good works or acts of charity is not the issue unless or until we are doing so to bring attention and glory to ourselves. That is when it becomes a problem.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that it is an issue of the heart, but who knows the heart better than Jesus? You see, Jesus didn't give the same explanation you did. He didn't say, "it's an issue of the heart so if you feel you can talk about your charity in a good way then that's fine; just avoid doing so for the sake of promoting yourself".

He said don't do it. Full stop. People do something similar with the secret fasting teaching. They say it's an issue of the heart so it's ok to talk about your fasting so long as you don't have the intention of others thinking well of you for your spiritual discipline.

It's the same thing with using special titles to flatter one another. Jesus said don't do it, but people say it's okay to use the special titles so long as you're not "overly fond" of them. I could probably list a dozen commands of Jesus and receive a similar response to all of them.

This "issue of the heart" thing becomes the cornerstone where the authority of Jesus to make a command and expect it to be obeyed is replaced by personal "good intentions".

Maybe there are times when we don't understand the reasoning behind the teaching or for whatever reason we just don't get it but that's the benefit of obedience to Jesus. If we believe he really does know better than us and wants what's best for us, then it's makes sense that we should obey him even if we don't see the sense in the teaching.

Do we have the faith to believe that Jesus really meant what he said? I believe this is why Jesus asked, "Why do you call me lord, but do not obey me"? (Luke 6:46)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top