Is TULIP biblical?

[journeyman]

It's stunning. Jesus mercifully holding back his own anger against people who are abusing him, got turned into "TULIP"...."I can't repent because I don't know how. I have to wait for God to sprinkle magic fairy dust on my head so I can turn to him. And after I turn to him, I'm so depraved I'll continue living in sin and God is OK with that because he knows I'm just a mindless robot. What?

 

[journeyman]

It's stunning. Jesus mercifully holding back his own anger against people who are abusing him, got turned into "TULIP"...."I can't repent because I don't know how. I have to wait for God to sprinkle magic fairy dust on my head so I can turn to him. And after I turn to him, I'm so depraved I'll continue living in sin and God is OK with that because he knows I'm just a mindless robot. What?

 

[journeyman]

Only someone who opposes God, and "adversary" of God will tell sinners, "You don't have to repent to be saved."

anyone who tells you that believes the devil, not what Jesus said.

 

[Free]

It's stunning. Jesus mercifully holding back his own anger against people who are abusing him, got turned into "TULIP"...."I can't repent because I don't know how. I have to wait for God to sprinkle magic fairy dust on my head so I can turn to him. And after I turn to him, I'm so depraved I'll continue living in sin and God is OK with that because he knows I'm just a mindless robot. What?

This is a gross misrepresentation.

Only someone who opposes God, and "adversary" of God will tell sinners, "You don't have to repent to be saved."

Is there anyone who says that?

 

[journeyman]

This is a gross misrepresentation.

No it isn't. Calvanists have said this plainly to me on this board many times.

Is there anyone who says that?

Absolutely. Just go to the Calvanist section on this board right now and ask any Calvinist if they have the ability to repent by reason of Christ teachings, or by reason of the miracles he performed to confirm his teachings.
The answer will be no. You will be told as I always have been that people are totally depraved and without God using an irresistible force pulling us toward him, we cannot know anything about God.

That is not true.

 

[Free]

No it isn't. Calvanists have said this plainly to me on this board many times.

I'm very sure no Calvinist has said that "God to sprinkle magic fairy dust on [your] head so [you] can turn to him." And, I'm just as sure that no Calvinist has said that "after [you] turn to him, [you're] so depraved [you'll] continue living in sin and God is OK with that because he knows [you're] just a mindless robot."

Maybe you can point me to just one post in where this has been said to you.

Absolutely. Just go to the Calvanist section on this board right now and ask any Calvinist if they have the ability to repent by reason of Christ teachings, or by reason of the miracles he performed to confirm his teachings.
The answer will be no. You will be told as I always have been that people are totally depraved and without God using an irresistible force pulling us toward him, we cannot know anything about God.

That is not true.

You say that "Jesus [was] mercifully holding back his own anger against people who are abusing him." Does that sound like people who aren't totally depraved? Perhaps you could explain what you think "total depravity" means.

Do you disagree that salvation is entirely a work of God from start to finish, that it is by grace alone?

 

[journeyman]

I'm very sure no Calvinist has said that "God to sprinkle magic fairy dust on [your] head so [you] can turn to him." And, I'm just as sure that no Calvinist has said that "after [you] turn to him, [you're] so depraved [you'll] continue living in sin and God is OK with that because he knows [you're] just a mindless robot."

Maybe you can point me to just one post in where this has been said to you.


You say that "Jesus [was] mercifully holding back his own anger against people who are abusing him." Does that sound like people who aren't totally depraved? Perhaps you could explain what you think "total depravity" means.

Do you disagree that salvation is entirely a work of God from start to finish, that it is by grace alone?

No Free,
I agree completely with you that the work of salvation from beginning to end is by grace alone offered by God alone.
What I disagree with is how that grace is offered by God and how God Himself expects it to be received by sinners.

I am very busy tonight my friend and it will take me a few days to find posts by those who I have spoken to on this website proving they believe children are born without any consciousness of God from birth and unless God choose an individual for no understandable earthly reason, God just simply created such a person to destroy them.

I hope you understand that the "fairy dust" comment was my own sarcasm over my frustration without write heresy. We'll just call it an "unseen pull" by God upon man that can't before against.

I will repost your response and answer every question you have asked in a biblically logical manner.

 

[jasonc]

No it isn't. Calvanists have said this plainly to me on this board many times.

Absolutely. Just go to the Calvanist section on this board right now and ask any Calvinist if they have the ability to repent by reason of Christ teachings, or by reason of the miracles he performed to confirm his teachings.
The answer will be no. You will be told as I always have been that people are totally depraved and without God using an irresistible force pulling us toward him, we cannot know anything about God.

That is not true.

Not in my church .

Not in the ones that I listen too .

"I met the pastor of that church as he points to the church at the corner,his name is Jerry .oh ? I said .knowing I didn't tell my pastor that was my church for a few years.wgere ? At Panera we discussed theology and saving souls.he is very arminist and said people must make a decision.i agree .I the difference I see with it is that God touches the heart to enable decision "

He also said we have a choice .

 

[journeyman]

Not in my church .

Not in the ones that I listen too .

He also said we have a choice .

I'm referring to 1) any congregation that teaches people have no way of responding to Gods' grace using only the common sense He created all people with.

Please understand I'm saying Jesus came to us voluntarily, to reason with us. That grace of God we had nothing to do with, except that God loved us inspite of ourselves.

And 2) any congregation that teaches Jesus died "in place of sinners."

Please understand that I'm saying "Jesus died as a sinner", not "in place of sinners."

I don't think I've ever heard you say, "God saves sinners for no reason mankind can understand. And Jesus died in place of me because God wanted to have a perfect sacrifice to pour his anger for our sins on. God needed innocent Son in place of sinners"

Do you believe those two things?

 

[jasonc]

I'm referring to to any congregation that teaches people have no

Not heard it .d james Kennedy ,nope my church was tied to him .

From telly davichian? Nope
Not from any arp pastor or the church founder who I never knew he was reformed until I found out .

Not from Charles harden spurgeon and his devotions .

Not from rc Sproul and also John MacArthur.

Miracles dont save they are signs .plenty of isrealites saw Moses and his miracles and dropped dead in the wilderness.

Many saw Jesus perform his and rejected him .

That's biblical .

 

[JLB]

It's stunning. Jesus mercifully holding back his own anger against people who are abusing him, got turned into "TULIP"...."I can't repent because I don't know how. I have to wait for God to sprinkle magic fairy dust on my head so I can turn to him. And after I turn to him, I'm so depraved I'll continue living in sin and God is OK with that because he knows I'm just a mindless robot. What?

TULIP is not biblical.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I wanted to escape TULIP…
But honestly? I keep coming back to it because it’s probably the most solid hermeneutic I’ve encountered.

God saves. From beginning to end the salvation of His people is His work. His word will not return void…

 

[JLB]

I wanted to escape TULIP…
But honestly? I keep coming back to it because it’s probably the most solid hermeneutic I’ve encountered.

God saves. From beginning to end the salvation of His people is His work. His word will not return void…

So we don’t need to believe?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[Christ_empowered]

Put into a somewhat broader context…
Why is a person once as spiritually dead as anyone else able to believe and repent? And how are we kept in the faith…through iron willed belief or the power of God?

 

[journeyman]

TULIP is not biblical.

I finally realized the gravity of this statement,

Jesus saith to him, 'So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father? Jn.14:9 YLT

And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.....And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them. 1Sam.8:5,7

If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha. 1Cor.16:22

Cursed because our Lord had come. God help us. Help us God now.

 

[journeyman]

Hey folks,
I thought posting this thread woud detract me from the reason the thread was made and it is a little, so I won't be posting again until I answer an objection by Free.

If anyone does comment on anything I said, I will comment back after that.

 

[jasonc]

I wanted to escape TULIP…
But honestly? I keep coming back to it because it’s probably the most solid hermeneutic I’ve encountered.

God saves. From beginning to end the salvation of His people is His work. His word will not return void…

I'm more of it's not a hill to die on.

It's the extremes that j have a problem with .

Btw journeyman you are calling a commentary you posted in a jw thread ,a heretic .

Yup a puritan are as that group we got our Thanksgiving from are five pointers .

Mathew Henry was a nonconformists by demonation but held to the five points .

 

[JLB]

Put into a somewhat broader context…
Why is a person once as spiritually dead as anyone else able to believe and repent? And how are we kept in the faith…through iron willed belief or the power of God?

So we don’t need to believe?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[jasonc]

Put into a somewhat broader context…
Why is a person once as spiritually dead as anyone else able to believe and repent? And how are we kept in the faith…through iron willed belief or the power of God?

Not without God changing their heart to believe .

 

[journeyman]

Put into a somewhat broader context…
Why is a person once as spiritually dead as anyone else able to believe and repent?

@Christempowered
The Bible does not say, "People are born spiritually dead." No person who ever walked on this earth was "born spiritually dead."

We may walk farther and farther away from God, but that shows we walked away toward a path that led to death. Like the "prodigal son" parable. He was with his father in the beginning, got greedy and ended up slopping pigs.. and Jews didn't eat pulled pork bro.
I once woke up in an alleyway with snow all over me and thought, "What the heck am I doing?" And I didn't return to the Father I once knew as a child.
No theological degree. My parents told me that God created everything. He said he was up in heaven and we couldn't see him until we get to heaven. I believed that as a child.
My life was centered in God by family (women and children) who went to church on Sunday, mentioned God by mouth when correction was necessary but lived their faith daily.

One who wanders from the way of good sense will rest in the assembly of the dead. Pro.21:16 ESV

My parents taught me good sense. Paul had good sense before he understood the law,

I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. Rom.7:9 NKJV

And how are we kept in the faith…through iron willed belief or the power of God?

By Iron willed belief in the Power of God

Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1Cor.1:24 ESV

You've been misled my friend. People have mocked us for our imperfections, but iur Father never mocks us. Our Lord says they same type mocked Him too and He had no imperfections.
Thank you dear Lord Jesus for showing me how I have mocked You and Your Grace in having forginen me all of it.
I truly undersrand now Oh Lord how You want Your church to see others, to love others as You loved us.

I never hear you hating or pointing your finger at, or condemning people who make your life miserable. I hear frustration with the comic twist. I hear you thanking God for every peaceful thing in your life.

You don't sound nuts to me at all, so watch for the person who's telling you that. That's the one who Satan is speaking through.