Is TULIP biblical?

[Free]

All of the doctrine of TULIP as taught by Calvinist’s is false… being promoted from an unbiblical foundation which denies that man has the ability to choose.


Surely you understand this?

So, you don't agree that salvation is a work of God from start to finish, that it depends on man's choice? If it is dependent on man in any way whatsoever, then that is works salvation. Don't you agree?

Or, maybe you can give a scripture with the phrase … Totally Depraved or Unconditional Election or Limited Atonement?

You know how fallacious this is; show me a verse that says Trinity.

Judas Iscariot is the Wrecking Ball to TULIP.

How so?

Luk 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve. (ESV)

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
Joh 6:71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him. (ESV)

Joh 13:2 During supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him, (ESV)

Act_1:16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. (ESV)

Psa 41:9 Even my close friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted his heel against me. (ESV)

How free was Judas to choose?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

As to the topic of this thread, what is it exactly about TULIP that you take issue with?

Pick any letter. It's all heresy.

For instance, Gods' word only "limits atonement" between people who are told they are sinners in need of repentance.

The Bible says anyone, by reason of how God created us with a logical thinking mind, any human being can understand this and act on it Gods' way

This is true. Scripture teaches this,

Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; Ecc.12:1

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down and when thou risest up. Deu.6:6

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Pro.22:6

And no one no matter what any reformer with his man made bible school credentials says to the contrary will ever move me off thiat Rock.

Calvanism teaches atonement is limited to individuals whom God must drag against any will of their own and irresitibly force them to believe in Him.

There is not one word of truth to that from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[jasonc]

Pick any letter. It's all heresy.

For instance, Gods' word only "limits atonement" between people who are told they are sinners in need of repentance.

The Bible says anyone, by reason of how God created us with a logical thinking mind, any human being can understand this and act on it Gods' way

This is true. Scripture teaches this,

Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; Ecc.12:1

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down and when thou risest up. Deu.6:6

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Pro.22:6

And no one no matter what his man made bible school credentials say will ever move me off thiat Rock.

Calvanism teaches atonement is limited to individuals whom God must drag against any will of their own and irresitibly force them to believe in Him.

This is not one word of truth to that from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[Free]

Pick any letter. It's all heresy.

That's a bold claim with no evidence, so far.

individuals whom God must drag against any will of their own and irresitibly force them to believe in Him.

Please provide one source from the Reformed tradition which clearly states this is the case.

 

[jasonc]

Pick any letter. It's all heresy.

For instance, Gods' word only "limits atonement" between people who are told they are sinners in need of repentance.

The Bible says anyone, by reason of how God created us with a logical thinking mind, any human being can understand this and act on it Gods' way

This is true. Scripture teaches this,

Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them; Ecc.12:1

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down and when thou risest up. Deu.6:6

Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Pro.22:6

And no one no matter what any reformer with his man made bible school credentials says to the contrary will ever move me off thiat Rock.

Calvanism teaches atonement is limited to individuals whom God must drag against any will of their own and irresitibly force them to believe in Him.

There is not one word of truth to that from Genesis to Revelation.

What did Jesus mean by telling the Jews in chorazin and one other city that sodom and gommorah would have repented if they saw these miracles ?

Why didn't Jesus perform them there knowing that they would repent ?

Irresistible grace is that we do resist ,God is knowing so much that he breaks our will by trials and tribulation


Next Abraham was born in chakdea and idolatrer .that country well let's say lbgt was very much part of ancient chaldea and yet Good choose Abraham and his loins and left all other nations to founder lost then .

He didnt try to reach them unless it was for a reason and banned certain of them around isreal from knowing his ways.unto the seventh generation!



And note you implied a heresy of this nature is that if one isn't an armimist then one is damned ,can I borrow that to use against the other grey areas

Oh the millennium types who basically say another church of isreal will reach the lost who rejected the Lord when he returned despite that Jesus says no chance to repent for anyone at the time ?

Or how about if an man desires to be one he must be a man of one wife ? Female pastors anyone ?

And by hill to die on that greyness is what I meant .

You also ignore that Charles spurgeon a full five pointer ,hardly a heretic is quoted by your camp more then the reformed camp

He speaks of grace and love of God more then he did on the five points .yet he did also have sermons on it .

The Spurgeon Library | Grace Abounding

www.spurgeon.org

 

[Christ_empowered]

God decided before He formed the world who would be His. Ephesians 1:4


It isn’t about dragging some sinner kicking and screaming to salvation…


It’s about God’s work in the lives of people who are spiritually dead like everyone else until He intervenes…
Because He has already chosen them. It’s all about God and His will coming to pass.

 

[eddif]

Job 15:14 What is man, that he can be pure? Or he who is born of a woman, that he can be righteous?
Job 15:15 Behold, God puts no trust in his holy ones, and the heavens are not pure in his sight;
Job 15:16 how much less one who is abominable and corrupt, a man who drinks injustice like water! (ESV)

Consider this a side note.
Eliphaz is commenting in Job 15.

Eliphaz did not speak the truth like Job did. According to my reading at the end of the book of Job.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Total depravity took place at one point.

Before the flood the hearts were only evil continually. ( total depravity). Almost lost all of humanity. All have sinned, but total depravity?

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Free]

Consider this a side note.
Eliphaz is commenting in Job 15.

Eliphaz did not speak the truth like Job did. According to my reading at the end of the book of Job.

eddif

He didn’t speak the truth about God, but that doesn’t mean that everything he said was untrue, right?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

What did Jesus mean by telling the Jews in chorazin and one other city that sodom and gommorah would have repented if they saw these miracles ?

He meant (not you or me or anyone else mind you) that in His opinion (not yours or mine or.....oh nevermind) His Father decided Sodom or Gomorrah had seen enough evidence for them to believe in Him and decided to pass His righteous judgement on them.
In fact, Abraham was so worried about his nephew Lot being destroyed he begged God not to destroy this city if he could find 10 people in it worth saving.
Have you read how the men of that city wanted to have sex with Gods' Two Witnesses?
So will any of us right here right now go on to perfection?

this will we do, if God permit. Heb.6:3

Why didn't Jesus perform them there knowing that they would repent

Apparently God the Son thought like His Dad.

Irresistible grace is that we do resist ,God is knowing so much that he breaks our will by trials and tribulation

I guess that's why Jesus sad,

those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

I'm 100% certain our Lord gently meant that all men are sinners in need of forgiveness.

There is a story of an adulteress some people questioned him about. I think it says they were trying to trap him or tempt him. Our Savior told aneyone who was sinless to cast a stone.

That's really the first step to salvation. Realizing the law condemns us all of us.

For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. Jas.1:23-24

Brother I can't tell you how filthy I've been in my walk with the Lord for most of my so-called Christian life.

I'm 100% certain that's why Paul said people who physically opposed Jesus on Earth should be thankful that He showed them the patience of our Father displayed in the OT.
If our gentle God had opened His mouth in judgement against those sinners, by the law of Moses those men would have been put to death, but the Bible says,

He was oppressed, and Hewas afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth: He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He openeth not His mouth. Isa.53:7 (I bolded letters of KJV for clarity on Who is being unjustly and sinfully treated by mankind.

And this is truly why Jesus said , whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery Mt.5:28

I'm dead in the water already and so are you so. So do you agree with me?
I can't continue with the rest of your post if you're not getting the point and I have another post to answer before I turn in.

 

[jasonc]

He meant (not you or me or anyone else mind you) that in His opinion (not yours or mine or.....oh nevermind) His Father decided Sodom or Gomorrah had seen enough evidence for them to believe in Him and decided to pass His righteous judgement on them.
In fact, Abraham was so worried about his nephew Lot being destroyed he begged God not to destroy this city if he could find 10 people in it worth saving.
Have you read how the men of that city wanted to have sex with Gods' Two Witnesses?
So will any of us right here right now go on to perfection?

this will we do, if God permit. Heb.6:3

Apparently God the Son thought like His Dad.

I guess that's why Jesus sad,

those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?

I'm 100% certain our Lord gently meant that all men are sinners in need of forgiveness.

There is a story of an adulteress some people questioned him about. I think it says they were trying to trap him or tempt him. Our Savior told aneyone who was sinless to cast a stone.

That's really the first step to salvation. Realizing the law condemns us all of us.

For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. Jas.1:23-24

Brother I can't tell you how filthy I've been in my walk with the Lord for most of my so-called Christian life.

I'm 100% certain that's why Paul said people who physically opposed Jesus on Earth should be thankful that He showed them the patience of our Father displayed in the OT.
If our gentle God had opened His mouth in judgement against those sinners, by the law of Moses those men would have been put to death, but the Bible says,

He was oppressed, and Hewas afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth: He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He openeth not His mouth. Isa.53:7 (I bolded letters of KJV for clarity on Who is being unjustly and sinfully treated by mankind.

And this is truly why Jesus said , whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery Mt.5:28

I'm dead in the water already and so are you so. So do you agree with me?
I can't continue with the rest of your post if you're not getting the point and I have another post to answer before I turn in.

Your missing the entire point .

If Jesus and the atonememt was for all then what about those on sodom who would have relented but weren't simply told ?

Lot and man can hinder God that much that God can't send a willing soul ?

For I have kept .not they have kept themselves from idols .

Your earlier post said man is by nature born sinless .no procavity to sin and yet the cultures around isreal the seventy nations heard of things but isreal wasn't pressured and the sons of Abraham to reach them at all .

There was a tiny remant where Isaac wife came from that knew of the God of Abraham .

Man can't hinder what God wants done .yet Jesus said sodom was not able to hear and yet if they could they would have repented
Sounds like limited atonememt to me

 

[jasonc]

@Christempowered
The Bible does not say, "People are born spiritually dead." No person who ever walked on this earth was "born spiritually dead."

We may walk farther and farther away from God, but that shows we walked away toward a path that led to death. Like the "prodigal son" parable. He was with his father in the beginning, got greedy and ended up slopping pigs.. and Jews didn't eat pulled pork bro.
I once woke up in an alleyway with snow all over me and thought, "What the heck am I doing?" And I didn't return to the Father I once knew as a child.
No theological degree. My parents told me that God created everything. He said he was up in heaven and we couldn't see him until we get to heaven. I believed that as a child.
My life was centered in God by family (women and children) who went to church on Sunday, mentioned God by mouth when correction was necessary but lived their faith daily.

One who wanders from the way of good sense will rest in the assembly of the dead. Pro.21:16 ESV

My parents taught me good sense. Paul had good sense before he understood the law,

I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. Rom.7:9 NKJV


By Iron willed belief in the Power of God

Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 1Cor.1:24 ESV

You've been misled my friend. People have mocked us for our imperfections, but iur Father never mocks us. Our Lord says they same type mocked Him too and He had no imperfections.
Thank you dear Lord Jesus for showing me how I have mocked You and Your Grace in having forginen me all of it.
I truly undersrand now Oh Lord how You want Your church to see others, to love others as You loved us.

I never hear you hating or pointing your finger at, or condemning people who make your life miserable. I hear frustration with the comic twist. I hear you thanking God for every peaceful thing in your life.

You don't sound nuts to me at all, so watch for the person who's telling you that. That's the one who Satan is speaking through.

A gentile wasn't at horeb

Two mostle gentiles have their own conscience to deal with .it doesn't save them and knowledge isn't proclivity to sin .

Men by nature love sin .that's total depravity .
The debate is previant grace or irresistible grace .

You don't get the latter right .

It's God breaking our wills and then we being so broken can't resist and repent .

I wasn't looking for Jesus .he found me and used and let my sin destroy me .I had no option but to repent .I wasn't gonna choice drugs or jail .jail was coming of I continued .I knew where I was going so I repented .

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That's a bold claim with no evidence, so far.

The scripture I cited along with my comments about those passages took the L out. Just look at those passages without bias. It's not me who's right. I was taught everything you now believe and I was wrong. I did the exact same thing to the Jewish believer in Jesus that you're doing to me now. A Jewish believer in Jesus. He said to me, "This is how the law goes," I said, "No no, this is how the law goes."

I told a Jew what his Torah really said? And he believed in Jesus before SUPER GENTILE told that Jew what he could almost quote verbatim.

Please provide one source from the Reformed tradition which clearly states this is the case.

I'm serious about this. Are you and @brightflame the same person?
What's really sad is that Paul said there would come a time when people would be

without natural affection, Rom.1:31

This is true love and concern naturally bestowed on all humankind by our Creator.

That one little comment destroys the Calvinist doctrine of total depravity along with my other post which was ignored. This flagrant disregard for Gods' word began in the Garden of Eden. Calvinism has done everything in its power to help it along.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

This is how forgetful I'm getting. My point is, God created mankind in His Image which "I believe" includes feelings for our children.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

A gentile wasn't at horeb

Well since Ephraim and Manasseh were part Egyptian yes there was. Also many Egyptians left with the Israelites after the first born were killed in the last plague.

If you don't understand what I'm saying then never mind.

 

[jasonc]

Well since Ephraim and Manasseh were part Egyptian yes there was. Also many Egyptians left with the Israelites after the first born were killed in the last plague.

If you don't understand what I'm saying then never mind.

As a nation they weren't judged .that said

God called isreal and Judah worse then sodom and he didn't wipe them out .

Yet you miss the point.Jesus fully aware of the nature of the cities of sodom and gommorah didn't perform miracles and they were denied any space to repent .

Isreal had that promise to Abraham .God told isreal I choose you out off all nations and not to think they were better then any of the pagan nations .they werent !

God picked a nation over the other ?

Yup jacob I loved and esau I have hated .

 

[eddif]

He didn’t speak the truth about God, but that doesn’t mean that everything he said was untrue, right?

I really. Appreciate the discussion.


God declared Job righteous. And his servant. Since we know God declared all foods clean eventually, we appreciate the declarations of God.

The friends of Job declared Job messed up. Do I understand everything? No.

1 John 3:20 kjv
20. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

We see through a glass darkly right now. I just take the conversation in Job 42:7 + as true.
Job 42:7 kjv
7. And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

My servant Job. That seems to define a relationship between God and Job. In fact. Job is assigned to pray for his friends.

Mississippi redneck
eddif.

 

[eddif]

Why didn't Jesus perform them there knowing that they would repent ?

That gets close to why parables.
Matthew 13:15 kjv
15. For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with theirheart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

More later?

eddif

 

[JLB]

So, you don't agree that salvation is a work of God from start to finish, that it depends on man's choice? If it is dependent on man in any way whatsoever, then that is works salvation. Don't you agree?

I believe Jesus Christ paid the price for all the world to be saved.

Only those who believe will be saved.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Now please provide the scriptures that use the phrase TOTALLY DEPRAVED or UNCONDITIONALLY ELECTION or LIMITED ATONEMENT.

 

[JLB]

You know how fallacious this is; show me a verse that says Trinity.

I don’t use the word Trinity because it’s an unbiblical man made word.

I use Godhead.


TULIP is a man made Acronym that promotes a man made theology.

No where do we find the terms TOTALLY DEPRAVED, LIMITED ATONEMENT or UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION.