Is TULIP biblical?

[journeyman]

But you cant be nothing but carnal if not born again. A born again person has two natures, one spiritual and one carnal, but the one not born again can only have a carnal mind and cant receive the things of God.

I think the point Paul was making was Grow up, because you say you love Jesus but you're not doing what He said. That's why he said,

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate. Tit.1:16

He was talking about Jews who were telling gentiles they had to be circumcised to be saved.

It's amazing from that small misunderstanding, TULIP was born.

If anyone reads acts and sees how the new Jewish believers had many questions about keeping the law and Jewish unbelievers who were adamant about the law causing confusion and persecution, then look at how the Apostles handled these problems.

Paul always taught that following Jesus cancels the law. If Jesus didn't "cancel the law" we'd all be screwed. If Jesus had called all the faithful in Heaven and earth to Witness, His crucifixion would never have taken place because hating God or others in our minds is sin akin to murder "Jesus said, not me" and that's why Peter said,

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2Pet.3:15-17

 

[jasonc]

That's a false analogy and misrepresentation of what Calvinism teaches. Every Calvinist would agree that every unsaved person can choose to follow "the directions of their bosses at work." That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the unsaved are able to choose to go from spiritual blindness and death to life in Christ.

According to them ,one day a person. can decide to be anything but who he is,forgetting every single habit ,like and dislike and begin a new as something totally new and different.

In his own power .

 

[brightfame52]

I think the point Paul was making was Grow up, because you say you love Jesus but you're not doing what He said. That's why he said,

They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable and disobedient and unto every good work reprobate. Tit.1:16

He was talking about Jews who were telling gentiles they had to be circumcised to be saved.

It's amazing from that small misunderstanding, TULIP was born.

If anyone reads acts and sees how the new Jewish believers had many questions about keeping the law and Jewish unbelievers who were adamant about the law causing confusion and persecution, then look at how the Apostles handled these problems.

Paul always taught that following Jesus cancels the law. If Jesus didn't "cancel the law" we'd all be screwed. If Jesus had called all the faithful in Heaven and earth to Witness, His crucifixion would never have taken place because hating God or others in our minds is sin akin to murder "Jesus said, not me" and that's why Peter said,

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2Pet.3:15-17

Again, one cannot be nothing but carnal and in the flesh if they arent born again. And the indictment is this Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[journeyman]

That's a false analogy and misrepresentation of what Calvinism teaches. Every Calvinist would agree that every unsaved person can choose to follow "the directions of their bosses at work." That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the unsaved are able to choose to go from spiritual blindness and death to life in Christ.

People who do not have the Holy Spirit inside them are not "soiritually blind."
Jesus said follow Me and you won't be blind.
Many Israelites and gentiles followed Christ in the OT.
I do believe the Prophets and others came to know Him as God. You need to remember the Apostles also came to know Him that way, but still abandoned Him in the garden.

Seriously, think about that. If you and I knowing right now about His victory over death had been in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was arrested, would we have acknowledged Him as Lord and died with Him?

Or, would we like the Apostles start telling Jesus He's the cats meow and then run?

 

[journeyman]

Again, one cannot be nothing but carnal and in the flesh if they arent born again. And the indictment is this Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Yeah that's why Paul said get your diapers off, because only babies think they can be "in Christ" and wallow around in sin anymore.
John said,

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1Jn.3:14 KJV

Which is why the Messiah said love your enemies because we're all sinners who were enemies of God who needed His mercy.

 

[journeyman]

brightflame,
You're quoting scripture that means we're agreeing with His Soirit on how we live. He's directing us to be in harmony with Him. It can happen in this body.

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah that's why Paul said get your diapers off, because only babies think they can be "in Christ" and wallow around in sin anymore.
John said,

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1Jn.3:14 KJV

Which is why the Messiah said love your enemies because we're all sinners who were enemies of God who needed His mercy.

Man in the flesh cannot please God. Their mind is enmity against God

 

[brightfame52]

brightflame,
You're quoting scripture that means we're agreeing with His Soirit on how we live. He's directing us to be in harmony with Him. It can happen in this body.

No we dont agree.

 

[journeyman]

No we dont agree.

I can see that.
I think you see me saying Believers can do what only God can do. If that is the case I'm saying just the opposite.

The closer we get to Jesus, the more it becomes apparent how much we're not like Him. His love for mankind went way beyond my understanding because He did it for sinners who hated Him.

 

[brightfame52]

I can see that.
I think you see me saying Believers can do what only God can do. If that is the case I'm saying just the opposite.

The closer we get to Jesus, the more it becomes apparent how much we're not like Him. His love for mankind went way beyond my understanding because He did it for sinners who hated Him.

You are totally in the dark on mans total inability towards God by nature, he cant understand God, Seek God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Man by nature cant please God, cant obey God, and his mind and heart is enmity against God, the True God Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[journeyman]

You are totally in the dark on mans total inability towards God by nature, he cant understand God, Seek God Rom 3:11

then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Gen.4:26 KJV

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Man by nature cant please God, cant obey God, and his mind and heart is enmity against God, the True God Rom 8:7-8

Enoch.....pleased God. Heb.11:5 KJV

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Gen.7:1 KJV

 

[brightfame52]

then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Gen.4:26 KJV

Enoch.....pleased God. Heb.11:5 KJV

thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. Gen.7:1 KJV

See you proving the very point Im witnessing of, you dont receive the things of God

 

[journeyman]

See you proving the very point Im witnessing of, you dont receive the things of God

Noah received them. His great grandfather Enoch walked with God.

 

[brightfame52]

Noah received them. His great grandfather Enoch walked with God.

Sure after God saved them. However before Salvation this scripture passage included them Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[journeyman]

Sure after God saved them. However before Salvation this scripture passage included them Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they?

I know and there was no Bible, no written law. So the knowledge of God was passed from Adam and Eve to their children.
Adam lived over 900 years. That's a ton of learning from what God told him and Eve and probably many other things that weren"t written at the time.
Point is, Adam could easily have taught until those men lived.

 

[brightfame52]

I know and there was no Bible, no written law. So the knowledge of God was passed from Adam and Eve to their children.
Adam lived over 900 years. That's a ton of learning from what God told him and Eve and probably many other things that weren"t written at the time.
Point is, Adam could easily have taught until those men lived.

Man by nature is described right here:

Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

 

[journeyman]

Man by nature is described right here:

Rom 3:9-19

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

That's why God gives us teachers!

 

[brightfame52]

That's why God gives us teachers!

By nature here is the indictment for the natural man Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[journeyman]

By nature here is the indictment for the natural man Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

"Carnal mind" is what Paul means. He doesn't mean every human. He means how mean people think,

change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom.1:26

 

[brightfame52]

"Carnal mind" is what Paul means. He doesn't mean every human. He means how mean people think,

change the natural use into that which is against nature: Rom.1:26

It does apply to every human being by nature.