Islam – how well do you know the facts?

[Mike]

yea then why do you give this benefit to the Christians and not to Muslims. I guess we can realize if you're an example of a good christian. It would seems we're all prejudice to other religions and never treat them with the same benefit as other Christians. But we're not all like you and neither are all Muslims the same. It seems there's a division as some read hadiths while other just read the Quran you can also perceive it differently just like with Christians. We have millions of sects and read some of the same books. Obviously interpretation is a big deal and just like Muslims can differ in what they think... Prejudging just builds ignorance I believe. I guess that's why I listen before I take a stance...

True, people of any faith can be violent. Look around the world, and show me where Christian churches harbor, hide, and support terrorists who murder because the Bible tells them to. Individual whackos who act on their own are misguided individuals. Muslim terrorists do what they do in the name of Allah, support it with the Koran, and receive support from their mosques. Not the same.

 

[justme1808]

True, people of any faith can be violent. Look around the world, and show me where Christian churches harbor, hide, and support terrorists who murder because the Bible tells them to. Individual whackos who act on their own are misguided individuals. Muslim terrorists do what they do in the name of Allah, support it with the Koran, and receive support from their mosques. Not the same.

crusaders

and cults like jonestown.... So many other christian whackos... They do it for the same reasons... Also the RA... Yes Christians can be as bad as Muslims...

They say they can support it by twisting the words. But the fact is in the Quran Christians are believers and making it to heaven it they do good... So you can smear the people but it still stands that's what said and idolators are supposed to pay a tax. You see they know using religion will get more involved so that's what they indoctrinate. But it's not true.

I don't take every word for every word in the bible an example above why do it with the Quran.

If they were all terrorist you do know we'd have no chance. It's the second largest religion...

 

[justme1808]

oh forgot...

yugoslavia

I'm just leaving it out there not arguin' with you...

 

[Fedusenko]

There seems to have been a difference between the principles of Christianity and the practices of 'Christians' throughout history. Can you call someone who does not act Christ-like a Christian?

 

[Free]

crusaders

and cults like jonestown.... So many other christian whackos... They do it for the same reasons... Also the RA... Yes Christians can be as bad as Muslims...

They say they can support it by twisting the words. But the fact is in the Quran Christians are believers and making it to heaven it they do good... So you can smear the people but it still stands that's what said and idolators are supposed to pay a tax. You see they know using religion will get more involved so that's what they indoctrinate. But it's not true.

I don't take every word for every word in the bible an example above why do it with the Quran.

If they were all terrorist you do know we'd have no chance. It's the second largest religion...

I don't think you know all that the Quran states about Christians.

[video=youtube;8fSvyv0urTE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fSvyv0urTE&feature[/video]

 

[Mike]

yea then why do you give this benefit to the Christians and not to Muslims. I guess we can realize if you're an example of a good christian. It would seems we're all prejudice to other religions and never treat them with the same benefit as other Christians. But we're not all like you and neither are all Muslims the same. It seems there's a division as some read hadiths while other just read the Quran you can also perceive it differently just like with Christians. We have millions of sects and read some of the same books. Obviously interpretation is a big deal and just like Muslims can differ in what they think... Prejudging just builds ignorance I believe. I guess that's why I listen before I take a stance...

Unbelievable. What post were you reading and responding to? It couldn't have been the one you quoted, because I was clearly being critical of the Christian Crusaders. Do you read before you take a stance?

That said, Free's video was quite telling.

 

[anonymous13]

This video that was posted by Free is about politics and not Islam. Mike mentioned that

Muslim terrorists do what they do in the name of Allah, support it with the Koran, and receive support from their mosques.

It is important to know that most Muslim leaders in today world condemned all the terrorist attacks that were carried in the name of Islam.

Quran 5:32 -Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Terrorism should not be justified for any reason. Also, it is important to note that some individual actions does not reflect the religion of Islam.

As for the video that was published by free, I see that it addresses politics and not the religion of Islam. Jewish and Christians lived peacefully withing the Muslim land at the early days of Islam. Islam does not teach to wipe out Jewish as the speaker in the video was trying to make. If it happened that some in the middle east called for such action, I think it is wrong, but for sure it was motivated by political agenda and not religious one.

I agree with justme1808, that a big part of the problem of understanding Islam is bias. People often justify things that they do, but when a story has the name of Islam in it, they tend to look at it from a different perspective.

 

[Free]

This video that was posted by Free is about politics and not Islam. Mike mentioned that


It is important to know that most Muslim leaders in today world condemned all the terrorist attacks that were carried in the name of Islam.



Terrorism should not be justified for any reason. Also, it is important to note that some individual actions does not reflect the religion of Islam.

As for the video that was published by free, I see that it addresses politics and not the religion of Islam. Jewish and Christians lived peacefully withing the Muslim land at the early days of Islam. Islam does not teach to wipe out Jewish as the speaker in the video was trying to make. If it happened that some in the middle east called for such action, I think it is wrong, but for sure it was motivated by political agenda and not religious one.

I agree with justme1808, that a big part of the problem of understanding Islam is bias. People often justify things that they do, but when a story has the name of Islam in it, they tend to look at it from a different perspective.

The point of the video is that a moderate Muslim woman at a university in the US would not publicly condemn terrorist attacks. It is very much about Islam. It isn't quite as simple or as nice as you make it out to be.

 

[anonymous13]

The point of the video is that a moderate Muslim woman at a university in the US would not publicly condemn terrorist attacks. It is very much about Islam. It isn't quite as simple or as nice as you make it out to be.

First of all do you think that the individual actions of one person that follows Islam can be interpreted as what Islam says? Religion and people's action are to different things. For example, Islam says that it is forbidden to steal. To my knowledge, there are many people who have there religion as Islam an are in prison for stealing, and many of these people are moderate people. This does not mean that Islam encourages stealing or it is okay to steal in Islam.

The second point, I do not know how you knew that the woman in the video is a moderate Muslim. Many of the extremist terrorists that are using Islam to do there dirty work seem normal and moderate until they do there crimes. Thus, my point here is that we can't judge that somebody is moderate just because they do not look extreme.

My last point regarding this matter is at the end of the video it looks like that the girl is for wiping out the Jewish people. This is motivated by a political agenda and not Islam. You will not find in the teaching of Islam an encouragement to wipe out the Jewish people, nor to kill innocents.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

You act as if Islamic "extremists" are a small minority, in fact they are not.

Forty per cent of the British Muslims surveyed said they backed introducing sharia in parts of Britain, while 41 per cent opposed it. Twenty per cent felt sympathy with the July 7 bombers' motives, and 75 per cent did not. One per cent felt the attacks were "right".

62% of Muslims in Canada want some form of Sharia

 

[ChristianNationalist]

The second point, I do You will not find in the teaching of Islam an encouragement to wipe out the Jewish people, nor to kill innocents.

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."


Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you."

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting against those who refused to pay Zakat."

Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.'"

Qur'an:4:84 "Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah's Cause. Incite the believers to fight with you."

Qur'an:4:104 "And do not relent in pursuing the enemy."

 

[anonymous13]

I am not acting as if extremists are a minority. I am stating that they are a minority.
Sharia, means God's regulations. This has nothing to do with being an extremist or not. Moreover, study's like the one that your talking about can be misleading. As a start, we do not know if the sample surveyed was representative of the British or Canadian Muslims. Even if it was representative, their opinion does not necessarily reflect the position of Islam.

About the texts that you used. I do not see that some where translated in a way the exactly matches the texts in the Qur'an. However, I still cannot see where it says wipe out any religion, nor to kill innocents.

Qur'an 2:16 (Sahih International Translation) "Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not."

Quran 2:190 (Sahih International Translation) "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."

Quran 5:32 (Sahih International Translation) "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Battle in Islam is not used for corruption, and killing the innocents as some try to portray. It is one of the biggest sin to take an innocent life in Islam. Anyway, Jewish lived peacefully in the Muslim land in the early years. If Islam was a religion that calls for the wipe of the Jewish, the wouldn't have happened. It is such a shame that some would interpret the actions of some individuals as what Islam says.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Yeah, there's nothing about killing non-muslims there. Just to kill all disbelievers wherever you find them. Disbelievers, non-muslims; yeah that's totally not the same thing.

I think we're done here.

 

[reba]

Sharia, means God's regulations.

Allah is not God here.

 

[anonymous13]

ChristianNationalist
First of all this is the full translation of the Quran 9:5

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

It's important to note that this verse is meant for a specific time, and for specific reason. This happened, at the time that muslims re-entered Makkah. The polytheists were allowed 4 months, and after the 4 months God gave the above permission. It's nothing like what you are portraying it to be, which is to go and kill any polytheists that they say. This would be such an awful act. Also please notice how the verse ends.


reba
What is the difference between Allah and God? and when Allah and God will mean the same thing?

 

[reba]

Allah is not God

but that has been on another thread. Allah is a word a name nothing more. God is the creator of all heaven and earth.

 

[ChristianNationalist]

ChristianNationalist
First of all this is the full translation of the Quran 9:5

It's important to note that this verse is meant for a specific time, and for specific reason. This happened, at the time that muslims re-entered Makkah. The polytheists were allowed 4 months, and after the 4 months God gave the above permission. It's nothing like what you are portraying it to be, which is to go and kill any polytheists that they say. This would be such an awful act. Also please notice how the verse ends.

lol, you actually think that's an improvement? It still says if they don't convert that they're to be killed. It amazes me that Muslims can't see the evil of their own Quran.

 

[anonymous13]

reba
Allah is God, and yes God is the creator of all heaven and earth.

Qur'an 7:54 - Indeed, your Lord is Allah , who created the heavens and earth in six days and then established Himself above the Throne. He covers the night with the day, [another night] chasing it rapidly; and [He created] the sun, the moon, and the stars, subjected by His command. Unquestionably, His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah , Lord of the worlds.

Then I invite you to read the first chapter of the book of Genesis.

Genesis1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Now, if you look into the arabic bible in Genesis 1:31 it says

وَرَأَى اللهُ مَا خَلَقَهُ فَاسْتَحْسَنَهُ جِدّاً. ثُمَّ جَاءَ مَسَاءٌ أَعْقَبَهُ صَبَاحٌ فَكَانَ الْيَوْمَ السَّادِسَ

It actually reads Allah. Not God nor any something else. The whole arabic bible use the name Allah for God.
Thus, God is Allah, and Allah is God.
ChristianNationalist
No, what I am saying is not an improvement. It is the truth behind the verse, that some are using to mislead others. It's not like what you portray it to be. They were given the chance of 4 months to do whatever they wanted, but when the 4 months are over. They will have to leave Makkah, if they don't then they will be battled. Or the had the other option which was mentioned in the verse. Thus, it is clear that the verse was concerned with specific people, for a specific situation. Haters of Islam mislead others by portraying that the verse is directed to all people who does not believe which is far from the truth.
As I mentioned earlier, the Quran says (Sahih International Translation)

2:190- "Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors."

And no, the Qur'an is good. However, if you read it with the wrong perception, then you will not be able to see things the way that they really are!

 

[ChristianNationalist]

I read it as written, no more and no less. From its very foundation Islam has been a violent expansionist religion who has conquered one land after another giving non-muslims the choice of converting, submitting to Islamic brutallity, or being murdured. A 4 month period to think it over before the slaughter begins is not "Forgiving and Merciful". Your Allah is just Satan in disguise and Muhammad was the anti-Christ.

Islam is the only major world religion that is truly evil and all good men need to resist its spread. Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, pagans, and even agnostics/atheists need to stand together against the violent wave of Islam or all the world will fall under it's dark curtain.

 

[reba]

Nope your so called holy book stems from the father of all lies. God the Father is the one true God... say what ever you wish the facts do not change because of your allah. I will leave you to your thoughts.