Isreal Conflict

[jasonc]

Your list kind of reminds me of that song from the 80's. "We didn't start the fire". I think the events in the song were more spread out through history though.

THAT came out in 91 and it was by billy joel.

 

[jasonc]

Yes, Jesus told us to forgive, but he didn't tell us to sit idly by while terrorists who want to wipe all of God's people off the face of the earth fire rockets at civilians, including women and children.

The TOG​

ok so you anti gun rights but pro military? interesting.

 

[digging]

First of all lets remember that Israel was displaced a few 1000's years ago and even Jesus told them to flee. Jews are welcome in many countries, personally I would leave I believe this is the provision God has given at this time for Jews, similar to what he did for them in the past.

Now as for the question about 'attacked nations' I'm not loyal to any gov't above my devotion to God's Kingdom of peace. In no way do I believe God's will is honored through human wars of today. I'm looking to the City that God has promised us all. Humanity is on a path to death already and very possibly near an extinction event during the next 100 years. Theses worldly wars are like an early warning sign IF a nuke is released I don't believe our complex globalized interdependent system will hold and untold millions will loss their basic support systems for living.

This is far larger than just a few places here and there it could effect everyone on earth. Christians need to embrace LOVE wholly and completely at some point....why not now?

Digging

 

[digging]

Let's consider what this man who is Jewish has said. As for the comment about one side using human shields.....what else do they have? Where can they go? They have nothing more to lose they have no hope left. This is the saddest low state humanity can sink to.....

 

[TOG]

Let's consider what this man who is Jewish has said. As for the comment about one side using human shields.....what else do they have? Where can they go? They have nothing more to lose they have no hope left. This is the saddest low state humanity can sink to.....

You forgot to mention that Israel attacks these places because terrorist organizations like Hamas use homes, schools and hospitals to store weapons and fire weapons from these places, thereby turning these places into legitimate military targets. When Hamas fires rockets from the roof of a hospital at Israeli civilians, and the Israeli Air Force fires back, who's really responsible for the resulting deaths?

The TOG​

 

[digging]

Before I say anything more I just want to ask is everyone so far who is sharing on this topic Christian, or are there other faiths also?

I don't believe Christians are being faithful if they turn to war or support war.

Matthew 5:44 NAS
"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

Matthew 10:23 NAS
"But whenever they persecute you in one city, flee to the next ; for truly I say to you, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel until the Son of Man comes.



Digging

 

[digging]

Dear TOG,

I have a question for you, do you see this as a war or as an occupation that has been going on since 1948?

Digging

 

[jeff77]

Let's consider what this man who is Jewish has said. As for the comment about one side using human shields.....what else do they have? Where can they go? They have nothing more to lose they have no hope left. This is the saddest low state humanity can sink to.....

I think the Israelis are the victims here. It Hamas has been terrorizing them for years and then there was the 3 kids that they kidnapped and killed a few weeks ago. This man says the population being a attacked has no army, but it's not just the Palestinians that are against Israel. It's most of the Middle East against a tiny country.

 

[TOG]

Dear TOG,

I have a question for you, do you see this as a war or as an occupation that has been going on since 1948?

Digging

There have been no Jews in Gaza since they all left in 2005. How can they be occupying it if they aren't even there? It's Hamas that is occupying Gaza, not Israel. That was supposed to be a "land for peace" deal. Israel let the Palestinians have the land, and they were supposed to let Israel have peace instead. Since then, Hamas has fired over 8,000 rockets on civilian targets in Israel. Do you call that peace?

You are correct when you point out that Jesus told us to love and forgive, but don't forget the context. That was about our personal conduct. The Bible also talks about the government "bearing the sword". The government has a responsibility to use that "sword" to protect it's citizens and to punish lawbreakers.

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

There have been no Jews in Gaza since they all left in 2005. How can they be occupying it if they aren't even there? It's Hamas that is occupying Gaza, not Israel. That was supposed to be a "land for peace" deal. Israel let the Palestinians have the land, and they were supposed to let Israel have peace instead. Since then, Hamas has fired over 8,000 rockets on civilian targets in Israel. Do you call that peace?

You are correct when you point out that Jesus told us to love and forgive, but don't forget the context. That was about our personal conduct. The Bible also talks about the government "bearing the sword". The government has a responsibility to use that "sword" to protect it's citizens and to punish lawbreakers.

The TOG​

agree, that is what that sword is for. if noam Chomsky wants to call isreal a murdering nation kindly ask him why doesn't say that when the arabs there are warned by an inert dropped bomb to warn them to leave the home before its leveled?would he tell the guy whom he is fighting where he is going to hit him first and then expect to win? yet that is what we ask of isreal.

 

[jasonc]

Dear TOG,

I have a question for you, do you see this as a war or as an occupation that has been going on since 1948?

Digging

mam read up history of isreal before you say that again. the jews that were there are the ones that fought for their land as they OWNED it under arab control. the jews never left the land fully. that is why we have shepardic jews, yeminite jews, askanazi jews. those all left but they weren't the ones whom made that claim.

 

[digging]

Here are some different statistics that I have found helpful in keeping this in perspective.

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of November 2012, the attacks have killed 64 people, mostly civilians, and injured thousands, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace

A trend in decreasing annual traffic fatalities celebrated in 2012 proved irrelevant in 2013, a year in which 303 people died in road accidents, as of Sunday.http://www.jpost.com/Enviro-Tech/Tr...larly-among-young-drivers-rise-in-2013-336476

Almost 5 times more Israels die in car accidents every year. Should they boom the car companies for that?

Digging

 

[TOG]

Here are some different statistics that I have found helpful in keeping this in perspective.

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of November 2012, the attacks have killed 64 people, mostly civilians, and injured thousands, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace

A trend in decreasing annual traffic fatalities celebrated in 2012 proved irrelevant in 2013, a year in which 303 people died in road accidents, as of Sunday.http://www.jpost.com/Enviro-Tech/Tr...larly-among-young-drivers-rise-in-2013-336476

Almost 5 times more Israels die in car accidents every year. Should they boom the car companies for that?

Digging

Interesting comparison. Let me try...

On September 11 2001, 19 hijackers hijacked 4 airplanes and flew them into the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon in Washington DC. One plane crashed in a field before reaching it's destination. About 3,000 people died in those attacks. Of the 19 hijackers, 15 were from Saudi Arabia, 2 were from the United Arab Emirates, 1 was from Egypt and 1 from Lebanon. The US reacted by attacking Iraq. Between 34,000 and 37,000 Iraqis were killed in that war, which is over 10 times as many as in the Sept. 11 attacks.

In the year 2001 - the year of the Twin Tower attacks - 42,196 people died in traffic accidents in the US. That's more than the total number of people killed in the Iraq war, and 14 times as many as were killed in the attacks on Sept. 11 that year. In your opinion, whom should the US have bombed in retaliation for all those deaths, and, considering the ratio of Iraqis killed compared to those in the Twin Towers, how many do you feel should have been killed because of the traffic accidents? Around half a million, perhaps?

You see, you're not the only one that can come up with ridiculous comparisons.

The TOG​

 

[jasonc]

don't forget, tog that more kids die from car wrecks, and soldiers from accidents then any war.last year we had more soldier commit suicide then those then died in Afghanistan.

 

[digging]

Please TOG I believe your the one suggesting people should be killed not me.

I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison at all.

These traffic statistics point out our inconsistency over the reaction to deaths and how we accept some without even questioning and others we totally dramatize. We need to ask our selves deeper questions as to why that is?

Here is a stat from the UN

1) Deaths from the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Of those killed in the conflict, 4,228 have been Palestinians, 1,024 Israelis, and 63 foreign citizens. For every person killed, approximately seven were also injured. 3/

- See more at: http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272#sthash.r5xKkYHG.dpuf

 

[jasonc]

Please TOG I believe your the one suggesting people should be killed not me.

I don't think it's a ridiculous comparison at all.

These traffic statistics point out our inconsistency over the reaction to deaths and how we accept some without even questioning and others we totally dramatize. We need to ask our selves deeper questions as to why that is?

Here is a stat from the UN

1) Deaths from the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Of those killed in the conflict, 4,228 have been Palestinians, 1,024 Israelis, and 63 foreign citizens. For every person killed, approximately seven were also injured. 3/

- See more at: http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/BE07C80CDA4579468525734800500272#sthash.r5xKkYHG.dpuf

the un also seems to ignore how many more muslims do that to each other. remember that the hamas did attempt to attack the very power grid they get their electricity from when they tried to hit that nuke plant. theres no way you are going to convince us that isreal whom provides them power and water whilst they attack them is bad.

would you hit your own food bank in a war to make the enemy suffer? that is what the hamas did attempt.

 

[jeff77]

Here are some different statistics that I have found helpful in keeping this in perspective.

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of November 2012, the attacks have killed 64 people, mostly civilians, and injured thousands, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace

A trend in decreasing annual traffic fatalities celebrated in 2012 proved irrelevant in 2013, a year in which 303 people died in road accidents, as of Sunday.http://www.jpost.com/Enviro-Tech/Tr...larly-among-young-drivers-rise-in-2013-336476

Almost 5 times more Israels die in car accidents every year. Should they boom the car companies for that?

Digging

Aren't most of those fatalities from accidents? I see the reason for the deaths as being a big difference.

 

[digging]

Jasonc I'm not try to convince you they are 'bad' this is a far larger serious issue for the whole world, something that has been building up for centuries. What I feel is very important as Christians is for us to see that these worldly wars are not for us to agree with or support in any way. We need to be pursing things that heal and help.

Digging

 

[digging]

I'd like to explain why I used the car accidents as an example. Why do we accept such high death rates from the use of industrial made machines? Because we want to live industrially developed and because of this we culturally have accepted these deaths as the 'price we have to pay' for driving in vehicles and using machines.

The US and other nations have chosen to support Israel to reestablish itself in the middle east knowing full well what the reaction would be after having not been a nation for 2000 years. Why then such a big reaction to the suffering and death of some Israels? Isn't that the price they have chosen to pay for wanting to create an Israel nation again? Why the shock and horror that such a move has caused extreme resistance??

Digging

 

[Sinthesis]

WHO really is the Rabid dog then.......it would seen there are many on all sides.....I don't recall Jesus teaching such thinking but rather, forgiveness and love leading to healing peace.


Digging

Rabies can exist on both sides. Rabies can infect so-called Christian societies as well. However, Israel, to the extent it can, restrains its Jewish radicals and requires they observe the law. The Islamic radicals of Gaza are not restrained by what passes for their government. If Israel was not constrained by the teachings of Jesus that underpin their western style government, they would slaughter every Muslim Palestinian in a way no different than the anarchy bred sectarian violence Muslims are so willing to commit against each other. Jesus is long suffering, but He also protects the innocent. No one suffers more from the hate that infects Islamists more than the Muslims who don't hate, but are unwilling to take a stand against those Muslims among them who do.