It's all about love?

[FullArmorOnline]

Recently there is a new wave of Christians preaching this new message 'it's all about love'. The idea is hidden behind I Corinthians 13 and other scriptures. I find myself jumping into at times and realizing YES it's all about loving God and loving people.. but part of me feels that the movement has some ditches or faults possibly..

I was in minneapolis, mn doing some street evangelism and I ran into a young man that I'm positive was/is demonized. Just trust me I have a I cor. 12 gift of discernment of spirits and after talking with him found that he 'loves jesus and the bible but found the most peace in his life when he embraced all religions' paraphrase. He is fresh off of drugs and if I told him I was into tarrot cards and witchcraft he would probably have said 'that's cool you found something that works for you bro'. But anyway this ties in because he made a statement that didn't settle well with me.. 'it's all about love' is what he said. The same statement a lot of Christians have been throwing around and what not.

I agree with I cor. 13 that if you have not love you got nothing, basically. But why is it that a new-age, universalist, lost kid in mpls., mn is preaching the same message?

Any one got any insight? and please only post if you have something legit because I've gone back and forth and wrestled for awhile, I want real answers. And I might not even listen to what you have to say any way, I have Jesus.

 

[Hitch]

Schaeffer warned about this in The Great Evangelical Disaster

 

[smaller]

Recently there is a new wave of Christians preaching this new message 'it's all about love'. The idea is hidden behind I Corinthians 13 and other scriptures. I find myself jumping into at times and realizing YES it's all about loving God and loving people.. but part of me feels that the movement has some ditches or faults possibly..

I was in minneapolis, mn doing some street evangelism and I ran into a young man that I'm positive was/is demonized. Just trust me I have a I cor. 12 gift of discernment of spirits and after talking with him found that he 'loves jesus and the bible but found the most peace in his life when he embraced all religions' paraphrase. He is fresh off of drugs and if I told him I was into tarrot cards and witchcraft he would probably have said 'that's cool you found something that works for you bro'. But anyway this ties in because he made a statement that didn't settle well with me.. 'it's all about love' is what he said. The same statement a lot of Christians have been throwing around and what not.

I agree with I cor. 13 that if you have not love you got nothing, basically. But why is it that a new-age, universalist, lost kid in mpls., mn is preaching the same message?

Any one got any insight? and please only post if you have something legit because I've gone back and forth and wrestled for awhile, I want real answers. And I might not even listen to what you have to say any way, I have Jesus.

It is definitive ground. We stand with Christ and His Spirit against evil works and workers. There is undoubtedly the workings of Satan in this present world and that working is 'in man' beyond any questions. It is NOT all about 'love' whatsoever 'to that working or worker,' period.

It is there The Sword of His Word cuts cleanly.

s

 

[thethinkingrebel]

Recently there is a new wave of Christians preaching this new message 'it's all about love'. The idea is hidden behind I Corinthians 13 and other scriptures. I find myself jumping into at times and realizing YES it's all about loving God and loving people.. but part of me feels that the movement has some ditches or faults possibly..

I was in minneapolis, mn doing some street evangelism and I ran into a young man that I'm positive was/is demonized. Just trust me I have a I cor. 12 gift of discernment of spirits and after talking with him found that he 'loves jesus and the bible but found the most peace in his life when he embraced all religions' paraphrase. He is fresh off of drugs and if I told him I was into tarrot cards and witchcraft he would probably have said 'that's cool you found something that works for you bro'. But anyway this ties in because he made a statement that didn't settle well with me.. 'it's all about love' is what he said. The same statement a lot of Christians have been throwing around and what not.

I agree with I cor. 13 that if you have not love you got nothing, basically. But why is it that a new-age, universalist, lost kid in mpls., mn is preaching the same message?

Any one got any insight? and please only post if you have something legit because I've gone back and forth and wrestled for awhile, I want real answers. And I might not even listen to what you have to say any way, I have Jesus.

It isn't all about love, sure its about God's love for us, but its also about justice, repentance, humility. You can't just boil the gospel down to one word, thats ridiculous. Of course we preach God's love but its not ALL about love.
People need to stop reading John 3:16 as if it represented the whole bible as some kind of synopsis. 90% of the OT relates to God's judgment of us in some fashion, prophets sent to warn us of how wicked we are and how God will knock us down a peg or two.

 

[childeye]

Love in it's true term is the Eternal Spirit of God, but it is also simply a word. God's Love is a sacrificial Love as all true love is and does not support vanity. In spiritual words I would venture to say that Jesus drank his cup of gall all alone, as do all who must face the semantics of the devil. So drink up, and know that the willfull partaking of such an unpleasant taste is required for there to be no vanity in Love.

Don't let the devil rob us of the word Love in our vocabulary just because he has blurred the meaning trying to cause us to despise it, the word 'love' that is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It isn't all about love...

But it really is...

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Gal. 5:6b NIV1984)

And since the scriptures are so plain about this we should seek to know what this means, not rationalize it away or redefine it until it's not really all about "faith expressing itself through love" as we are tempted to do when see unbelievers take false comfort in the 'love' they have.

...sure its about God's love for us...

Well, it is, but specifically God's love for us manifesting in an active love for others.

...but its also about justice, repentance, humility.

Since our one English word 'love' is used for all the different 'loves' most don't recognize "justice, repentance, humility" as expressions of the love that matters above all else in regard to our faith in the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.

You can't just boil the gospel down to one word, thats ridiculous.

I honestly think you can. Sadly, most people think the gospel is about correct doctrine, the right worship, and all the other externals of the faith, thinking those are what pleases God and makes us acceptable to him. Not that those aren't important in some way, but nothing could be farther from the truth. To take comfort in those things is to have one's confidence in the wrong place. The Bible teaches that genuine saving faith is known and measured by it's 'love' for others, particularly the body of Christ. We owe it to ourselves to know what having love for others really means. And it's not what the world, or the church for that matter, thinks love is.

Of course we preach God's love but its not ALL about love.
People need to stop reading John 3:16 as if it represented the whole bible as some kind of synopsis.

Correct. The Bible teaches us what love looks like in the person who genuinely has it. For it is a particular expression of saving faith that matters, not that you simply possess faith. To take comfort in John 3:16 for your salvation and not know of your own obligation to love others as God loves us is to have no legitimate manifested evidence to base the surety and confidence that you yourself are even a benefactor of John 3:16. This same John also said if you say you love God but you don't love your brother you are a liar. Ouch!

90% of the OT relates to God's judgment of us in some fashion, prophets sent to warn us of how wicked we are and how God will knock us down a peg or two.

...that wickedness being defined by how much we don't, in our natural selves, love others. The very definition of Biblical 'love' is that it "does no harm to its neighbor" (Romans 13:10 NIV1984). But by nature we hurt others through our pride, and envy, jealousy, and hatred, and divisiveness, unforgiveness, lack of self control...and so on.

The measure of real love, that shows you really have faith and belong to God, is not that you worship correctly, or have correct doctrine, or witness to others, or sing in the choir, or have a right attitude toward God, or even that you say you love God, but that you control the untamed beast of your own spirit and seek to not hurt others with the things I listed above.

Even the best unbelieving fakers serving in food kitchens across the world eventually show how unloving they really are by their pride, and envy, etc, showing themselves to in fact NOT belong to God. But since not even many Christians know what Biblical love really is (it's the best kept secret in Christianity) we're easily frustrated and confused by unbelievers who claim they know God and are saved because of the love they say they have, and we can't give a good answer to them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I agree with I cor. 13 that if you have not love you got nothing, basically. But why is it that a new-age, universalist, lost kid in mpls., mn is preaching the same message?

Any one got any insight? and please only post if you have something legit because I've gone back and forth and wrestled for awhile, I want real answers. And I might not even listen to what you have to say any way, I have Jesus.

I believe the answer is to know what godly Biblical 'love' (agape) really is and what it looks like in daily life. Few know.

 

[doozie]

People need to stop reading John 3:16 as if it represented the whole bible as some kind of synopsis.

Sadly many people who know John 3:16 by heart would be surprised to read the rest of that chapter, especially when it gets to the part about "those that believe not are condemned".


People want to talk about love but they don't want to actually love each other. Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments".

 

[for_his_glory]

Is love not the greatest commandment of God, but we use it so lightly that we almost make a mockery of what it represents. Upon Gods agape love hangs every word of God for blessings or cursing according how we use that love.

Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

But it really is...

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Gal. 5:6b NIV1984)

And since the scriptures are so plain about this we should seek to know what this means, not rationalize it away or redefine it until it's not really all about "faith expressing itself through love" as we are tempted to do when see unbelievers take false comfort in the 'love' they have.

I agree, however..I was not viewing the question in those terms. More thinking of it in terms of evangelism, and in terms of sound doctrine. It is all well and good to quote a verse such as that - which I agree with - however there also has to be a defined understanding about what that verse meas, what that expression is, and what it means to have faith.

Well, it is, but specifically God's love for us manifesting in an active love for others.

I agree.

Since our one English word 'love' is used for all the different 'loves' most don't recognize "justice, repentance, humility" as expressions of the love that matters above all else in regard to our faith in the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ.

Again I agree. Which is why I believe that simply using the word love, doesnt really cut the mustard, and should be opened up and 'amplified', so that non believers, as well as many christians, actually understand what it means.

I honestly think you can. Sadly, most people think the gospel is about correct doctrine, the right worship, and all the other externals of the faith, thinking those are what pleases God and makes us acceptable to him. Not that those aren't important in some way, but nothing could be farther from the truth. To take comfort in those things is to have one's confidence in the wrong place. The Bible teaches that genuine saving faith is known and measured by it's 'love' for others, particularly the body of Christ. We owe it to ourselves to know what having love for others really means. And it's not what the world, or the church for that matter, thinks love is.

It is about correct doctrine, in factwe are discussing doctrine right now. Also correct worship? well we have to have correct worship, otherwise our love ina ction could result in contemplative meditation, or eucharistic transubstantiation. Confidence is not on works, but on salvation through Jesus Christ. to then again boil it down to Jesus loving us..would be cutting the gospel in half. The first part of the gospel is Jesus; his sacrifice on the cross, and his resurrection..the second is how WE can be saved because of this, and finally the consequences of not doing so, in utter destruction for the wicked [or hell depending on your theology].
Love is in there, but it is not to be solely taught, its the underlying nature of the gospel, but noone will be saved simply from being taught that "God is love".

Correct. The Bible teaches us what love looks like in the person who genuinely has it. For it is a particular expression of saving faith that matters, not that you simply possess faith. To take comfort in John 3:16 for your salvation and not know of your own obligation to love others as God loves us is to have no legitimate manifested evidence to base the surety and confidence that you yourself are even a benefactor of John 3:16. This same John also said if you say you love God but you don't love your brother you are a liar. Ouch!

Yes, they are words of comfort, as well as an exclamation to those who are called to read, to learn, and to have relationship. It HAS to be intellectual as well as emotional, you HAVE to believe and LOVE IN YOUR HEART SOUL BODY AND MIND. It is an active love, a love that learns, otherwise proverbs would be pointless. Again simply saying "God is love" and boiling the gospel to that, results in emergent churches and new ageism, leading thousands/millions astray.

...that wickedness being defined by how much we don't, in our natural selves, love others. The very definition of Biblical 'love' is that it "does no harm to its neighbor" (Romans 13:10 NIV1984). But by nature we hurt others through our pride, and envy, jealousy, and hatred, and divisiveness, unforgiveness, lack of self control...and so on.

That wickedness is far more than simple lack of love, it is a willful hatred of God, along with perversions, idolatry etc. But yes you are correct.

The measure of real love, that shows you really have faith and belong to God, is not that you worship correctly, or have correct doctrine, or witness to others, or sing in the choir, or have a right attitude toward God, or even that you say you love God, but that you control the untamed beast of your own spirit and seek to not hurt others with the things I listed above.

Even the best unbelieving fakers serving in food kitchens across the world eventually show how unloving they really are by their pride, and envy, etc, showing themselves to in fact NOT belong to God. But since not even many Christians know what Biblical love really is (it's the best kept secret in Christianity) we're easily frustrated and confused by unbelievers who claim they know God and are saved because of the love they say they have, and we can't give a good answer to them.

Indeed "did we not prophecy in your name, and cast out demons". This actually shows how much more our faith and relationship and service of Christ is, rather than just being nice, it's an extension of God, we are his right hand on this earth, we have power [all do], even our technology is a gift from him, as well as our kindness and mercy. The issue is whether we deny that power is from him, and in our pride become haughty and arrogant, boasting of our own achievements.

Also, we must be careful to exercise God's love freely, never to deny it. We should also take heed, that we will and MUST offend others, not to do explicit physical harm, but we will upset people [I don't know if you meant harm or mental hurt]. But yes, Is God love? Indeed, is that all the gospel is? No.

 

[John 8:32]

This will bring out the flame throwers, but anyhoo...

Christ said it is all about the Father...

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Joh 12:49-50 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. (50) And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Jesus did what the Father told Him to do.

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Joh 10:37-38 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. (38) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Joh 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Joh 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

Christ judged only as the Father directed Him.

Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Joh 5:26-27 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Joh 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

Christ came to reveal the Father.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

Joh 17:5-6 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. (6) I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.

The Father decides who can come to Christ.

Mat 16:13-17 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? (14) And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. (15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? (16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. (17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Joh 17:11-12 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (12) While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Other words Christ said about the Father.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 20:20-23 Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. (21) And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. (22) But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. (23) And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 10:28-30 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. (30) I and my Father are one.

Joh 14:9-11 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

OK, flame on.

 

[ivorhughjarse]

the enemy will sow a replica model to lead off as many as possible..if it's not the love of God...either from God to us or from us to God then its wrong. I love my neighbor because God loved me, God loved me so I love my neighbor. God is always in the equation and if he is missing then its a replica.

 

[smaller]

This will bring out the flame throwers, but anyhoo...


OK, flame on.

Why would posting scripture bring flame on?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If you throw in your interpretation of scripture then you might solicit flamethrowers, lol...but not by simply posting scriptures.

 

[childeye]

I thought scripture itself is a flame thrower.

 

[Broncobilly1972]

It is about love. His love for us, and our love shown to Him by our obedience to Him. Christ said if you love me keep my commandments. Even in churches today we are taught we can still disobey and get to heaven. When the bible says its not possible. We are told the apostles didn't keep the commandment. When they kept the law themselves. Paul says we prophesy, but we prophesy in part. Isnt there a law that says. To leave some in the fields so the poor can gather it and feed themselves? Why did they change church services to Sunday? Isn't preaching work? Paul laboured but was his labour making tents? Did he work nonstop at making sure he could provide a tent for all? I bet on the sabbath he rested from what he considered his spiritual work.

It's about love shown through obedience. Adam and Eve could not abide with God through their disobedience, through obedience we can abide, not just follow.

 

[Davies]

I agree with I cor. 13 that if you have not love you got nothing, basically. But why is it that a new-age, universalist, lost kid in mpls., mn is preaching the same message?

Hi FullArmorOnline,

I think what we should be keeping in mind when we talk about God's love is His holiness.

Psalm 138:2
New King James Version (NKJV)
2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name
For Your lovingkindness and Your truth;
For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

The Bible tells us that God is love but not at the exclusion of righteousness and justice. I think this is one of the main reasons why Jesus' death on the cross was the only way to redeem man.

Regarding the new-age, universalist, lost kid, he's making the same mistake the church does today by forgetting God is holy, or he doesn't know what holy means.

1 Peter 1:15-16
New King James Version (NKJV)
15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.â€

- Davies

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I thought scripture itself is a flame thrower.

Not if it's been watered down with the erroneous and spiritless interpretations of men not supported by the scriptures themselves.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

It is about love. His love for us, and our love shown to Him by our obedience to Him. Christ said if you love me keep my commandments. Even in churches today we are taught we can still disobey and get to heaven. When the bible says its not possible. We are told the apostles didn't keep the commandment. When they kept the law themselves. Paul says we prophesy, but we prophesy in part. Isnt there a law that says. To leave some in the fields so the poor can gather it and feed themselves? Why did they change church services to Sunday? Isn't preaching work? Paul laboured but was his labour making tents? Did he work nonstop at making sure he could provide a tent for all? I bet on the sabbath he rested from what he considered his spiritual work.

It's about love shown through obedience. Adam and Eve could not abide with God through their disobedience, through obedience we can abide, not just follow.

But lots of people obey lots of things we all know Christians should be doing...praying, worshiping, reading our Bibles, witnessing, giving generously, meeting with the saints...but godly love has to be understood quite differently for one to know if they are in fact loving as they should be.

Faith expressed through love is about our interpersonal relationships, not our correct doctrines and worship practices and sacrifices. Love is all about walking in the fruit of the Spirit--the new creation. But if instead your confidence lies in keeping external regulations of Christianity then you have placed your confidence in the wrong place. But many, many have made, and will continue to make, this terrible terrible mistake. It is probably the biggest deception in all of the church. But it is not a new problem to the people of God:


“‘Hear the word of the LORD, all you people of Judah who come through these gates to worship the LORD. 3 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Reform your ways and your actions, and I will let you live in this place. 4 Do not trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD, the temple of the LORD!” 5 If you really change your ways and your actions and deal with each other justly, 6 if you do not oppress the foreigner, the fatherless or the widow and do not shed innocent blood in this place, and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm, 7 then I will let you live in this place, in the land I gave your ancestors for ever and ever. 8 But look, you are trusting in deceptive words that are worthless.

9 “‘Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and perjury, burn incense to Baal and follow other gods you have not known, 10 and then come and stand before me in this house, which bears my Name, and say, “We are safe”—safe to do all these detestable things? 11 Has this house, which bears my Name, become a den of robbers to you? But I have been watching! declares the LORD." (Jeremiah 7:2-11 NIV1984)

 

[John 8:32]

an example...

We should keep the law...

Now look in some of the threads about the law and see if there are any glandular responses. A calm biblical discussion does not occur, an opinionated, adrenaline driven foray develops.