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Jeff from france

1on0ne said:
i understand, but you know jews and christians were wrong all the time during History, the jews killed Jesus, but they were the most religious, then the catholics raised, and we know they were somehow wrong, because protestantism came and brung new things to the table. If you stay on your old positions, you won't be a part of God's plan, that's how i see it. and if you don't even want to debate and aknowledge new ideas you will definitively be put out of God's new plan
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it's not new ideas we need to be open to - it's the truth of scripture
 
1on0ne
Jesus affirms that the greatest two commandments are to love the Lord with all that we are and to love our neighbors. Jesus goes on to say that all of the Law and prophets hang on these two laws.

Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

The Biblical narritive starts with Creation and can be found in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. According to this narrative, there was no other earth, nor was there any other form of life. Within the Garden of Eden, it was paradise with everything in harmony and working together. Eden was a place where humanity freely walked with God and God had given them simple instructions which would both expand Eden and build on the foundation God had built.

This was shortly lived as Eve was tricked by the serpent and Adam will fully disobeyed God's command.

1 Timothy 2:14 NIV
And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

The result of this sin was a
seperation of humanity with God occurred and as a response, death entered into the world.

Hell is a state which we create. It is the result of our disobedience to God's commands. God's commands are not for our punishment, but they are for our growth and for our own good.

Like Eve, we can be decieved by ungodly influences. We can be convinced that we know better than God which can lead us to justify doing things against one another and thinking we are right. But we can also harden our hearts and stop caring if what we are doing is right or wrong.

I am not sure of what has influenced you in your theology, but it does not resonates with the biblical narrative.

As you can see, many, including myself will push back on the theology you bring. Personally, I am simply trying to speak truth in love. I do not accept your theology, but I do have compassion for you.

I have found that people who reject an eternal hell usually have loved ones that, according to some Christian doctrines, those loved ones are in hell. This can create a since of hopelessness and additional pain for the loss of a loved one. If this is your situation, I have compassion for you and would only say that the fate if your loved one is in the loving hands of our gracious Father. Pray to him and your peace can be had.

I would only add this. Do not let your losses cause you to make scripture say what you want it to say.

I would leave you with this. Study God's word by trying to understand how the original listeners would have heard the words when they were originally spoken and written. If you do this, you will understand the original intent and as a result, it will help guide your thoughts.

Grace and peace.
 
1on0ne said:
no i haven't but i've been to hell, so i think it beats any reference to it, no ?



ok

know that the worst punishment for God is to be recalled to nothingness. A few angels (just a handful) have asked Him to be recalled to nothingness and He was really sad but He accepted...

yeah like anybody CHOSES to go to a place of eternal torments, right...

to understand hell, you have to understand why there is a hell. The Bible doesn't say so, . It just warns about the place, that it is a very dangerous place, a place so dangerous that it would be better to chop you arm off than to go there. Once again i've been there, so i know perfectly what Jesus is talking about. I also know where it is. Please give me ONE reference of someone who KNOWS where hell is and i'll follow his teachings.

To understand hell, you have to understand where it comes from :
At the beginning, Satanael rebelled, we all know that, but what we don't know is what happenned next : Satanael became Satan after rebelling against God's power. Some angels joined him and soon they were a mob. Two choices occurred when the mob met a new angel : join them of be killed. Of course Satan could remove the angel's body but not the soul. So he kept the souls in a place, and kept torturing the souls. This is HELL.

Satan became the first collector, a collector of souls.

God saw that happening and was so sad for the souls He had lost and the chaos in an ever so quiet universe until now.
So He decided to act and came out with a plan of salvation: He went to see Satan, took him apart, and told him :

"You got your souls collection, but this is a bit boring right ? You torture souls as you wish, but it would be better to rule your world. I got a trade to offer to you : i'll create a planet, just for you, where the souls you collected could be incarnated.
This will be your world.
And God showed him the new world as it is, with all the suffering and despair. The devil saw all the men being tortured, the pain, the diseases, animals and humans inter-devouring themselves, sadness, then finally death. And he was all excited. But he didn't see the joy, the peace, the help from others, the piety, generosity, courage, he discarded all that...All he was interested in was the negative side of the world. Satan was interested, but he wasn't all in yet...

Then God continued :
"In this population, i'll chose a race of people, the israëlites. In one part they will constanly reject me and i'll be strong, jealous, violent and resentful. In the second part, i'll come as a man, and i'll be the exact opposite: frail, caring, peaceful, and at 33, you will finally torture and kill me on a cross. And i'll feel every hit like it's done unto me."
Satan knew God wasn't lying and his eyes started to shine : Kill God ? He knew that he could not really make Him disappear, but torture Him ? this was unexpected...

so he accepted.

and God won.

We are since then free from Satan's dominion because God bought back our freedom thanks to Him.


the only problem is that you're not doing your shopping... We are after the TRUTH, so there is no "i would prefer live only one". OF COURSE everybody would prefer live once and be freed, but this is not how it works...what about the poor muslim that is born in a muslim family and that will go to hell forever, but what fault did he do ? don't you have compassion for him ? How can you say God is just after that. The whole theolgy isn't logical, i'm sorry



well we need a savoir to get out of the circle of reincarnations, that's the point ! you like beeing tortured on earth, far from God ?
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Although I don't like being separated from God, I do enjoy living my life here on earth so I wouldn't really call it torture.



Truthfrees said:
there can not be multiple deaths and reincarnations
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Amen to that. :amen
 
Hi 1on0ne , welcome to the forum.
I feel really concerned and that you are being greatly deceived. Perhaps God has led you here.
Re-incarnation is not a new idea. It has been going around for an extremely long time. We only get one chance at life. Not several.
I don't know where you believed it from, but they are very wrong.
The important one to believe is God, and He has given us His words and guidelines to help us. If anything goes against God's word don't accept it.
He is the only one you can trust. He loves you and me so much He sent His Beloved Son to save us. He loves you more than anyone else can. Jesus died for us, He loves us and every word He spoke was given to Him from the Father.
Draw close to Jesus and please at least pray about this, with an open and honest heart. No-one can judge you, and nobody on this forum would do. I find sadness that you are being deceived. You have been given marvellous advice in the previous posts by Godly people who have given it in love.
Praying for your peace and the Great love of God.
 
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1on0ne said:
yeah like anybody CHOSES to go to a place of eternal torments, right...

to understand hell, you have to understand why there is a hell. The Bible doesn't say so, . It just warns about the place, that it is a very dangerous place, a place so dangerous that it would be better to chop you arm off than to go there. Once again i've been there, so i know perfectly what Jesus is talking about. I also know where it is. Please give me ONE reference of someone who KNOWS where hell is and i'll follow his teachings.
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What I meant by "I don 't think anyone goes to hell who doesn't choose to go there." is that many are deceived into believing that there is no hell or any kind of punishment for their disobedience. Or else they refuse to accept the gift of eternal life and salvation for which Jesus died on the cross. Given the opportunity for the ticket to heaven they refuse to accept what Jesus has said and his gift of eternal life. Instead they are deceived into accepting something else or else nothing at all believing that there is no heaven or hell or afterlife.

You said "Please give me ONE reference of someone who KNOWS where hell is and i'll follow his teachings." Two come to mind: One is Satan the master of all lies and deceit and Jesus himself who being God knows all things including where hell is.

You say you have been to hell. And that you know where it is. I can only guess at your meaning, perhaps some kind of hell like experience you have experienced perhaps connected with the occult??

I believe God allowed you to find this site. I have no idea why; but I do know this much. People here truly love God and are endeavoring to follow Christ in an atmosphere of peace and inclusiveness. Anything, however, doesn't go! So I am thankful for the fine answers others have given you here. My prayer is that whether you stay or go..you will in time appreciate that.
 
StoveBolts said:
With all due respect, that isn't the Biblical narrative and reads more like a science fiction novel from L. Ron Hubbard.
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how do you know this isn't the biblical narrative ? what i talked about ISN'T in the Bible, nor in any other books, so how can you say that ?

StoveBolts said:
Have you looked into $cientology? If not, Mr. Hubbard's cult follows somewhat the same narrative you write about, only the names are changed. Xanu is Satan within your narrative and the soul is referred to as a Thatan trying to escape an implant (hell) which is attached to the Thatan through each incarnation.
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PLEASE, don't compare my theology to this crap just there to lead people away from the truth : Satan always put some truth in the middle of a LOT of lies...We all know that.

StoveBolts said:
The above is a figment of imagination and does not resemble the Biblical narrative, nor does it resonates in any way toward the Jewish notion of reincarnation let alone the Jewish site on earth.
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and ? because you never have heard something it is necessarily wrong ?

StoveBolts said:
It is true that there is a hell on Earth, which is why I asked if you have studied the biblical roots in regard to hell. From what you posted, it sounds like you've been heavily influenced by Norse mythology and grand illusiin which we will not allow to take root on our forum.
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i'm not influenced by any other text than my hability to think and to put every revelation God gave to me in a concise and coherent and beautiful new theology that makes sense (for once). I'm sorry but i can attack your theology or any existing theology on so many points you have no idea. But i don't see you attacking my theology on the points i made?

StoveBolts said:
That being said, we can certainly share our biblical views, but only if your open to hearing what we have to say.
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oh i'm all ears

StoveBolts said:
Also, a good Rabbi is able to snatch souls from hell as he passes through.
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what? this is funny and totally not true, no men on earth can bypass judgment of souls. Where do you get that that idea? from Hubbard (jk) ?

StoveBolts said:
Jesus is much more than a good Rabbi. He is our savior and because Jesus is our Savior, those in Christ will never see hell after death because we have already died and have been raised new with Christ.
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that's exactly what i'm saying : men who accepted Christ will not go to hell anymore that's the purpose of the Sacrifice of Jesus.
 
1on0ne said:
yeah but that's exactly my theology: we live, we die, then we are judged : we are in Christ we're saved, we're not we go to hell. then we reincarnate. The other alternative to reincarnation is eternal suffering in hell and i already told you that the biggest punishment from God is to be recalled to nothingess, and certainly not eternal torture this is preposterous.
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the word reincarnated means the same person comes back in a different body - so yes it does mean many deaths and reincarnations for the same person
 
Truthfrees said:
4. Matthew 25:41-46 - God judges righteously as per each person's case
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1on0ne said:
please show me scripture where it says we risk eternal suffering in hell please. Because all i've read is that there is an eternal judgment, a hell that is eternal (for now) but certainly not eternal torture. you have to be precise. A place can be eternal, but we don't stay there eternally, see difference?
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Matthew 25:41-46 - Matthew 25:41 - Matthew 25:46
 
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1on0ne ,
What drives you so deeply to want to argue and rage against conventional Christianity in such an extreemly way?

You seem to think that I want to prove you wrong. Honestly, I have no such desire and the last thing I care to do is argue with you.

In your welcome PM, you received a note that made it very clear that we are not a debate forum.

You are our guest, and I expect you to act like a good guest. By that, I mean be respectful of our Statement of Faith and our views. More importantly, do not attack them. Remember, you are our guest and we have shown you great kindness thus far.

You said earlier you have experienced hell. Would you mind sharing your experience? What great losses have you experienced in this lifetime, and what do you hope to achieve for the coming life?
 
Many people throughout history have claimed some kind of "new revelation of knowledge" and usually claim everyone up to now has been doing it wrong.
Gnostics were the first.

Usually, generally speaking, the new revelation of knowledge is used to show how they are more holy than everyone else OR how people can keep their favorite pet sins they love to commit. Possibly both things at the same time.

The main tenants of our faith are left behind. (Holy lifestyles through dependence on Jesus' sacrifice, humility, forgiveness, and agape type love)

It usually doesn't work...and the incongruity of these "alternate Faith's" are so glaring that they become very short lived.

The accuracy of the the Bible we have today is always questioned. Although we currently have original manuscripts from 1,700+ years ago that show us our Bible today is exactly the same as it always has been. Nothing added or removed. (Codex Sainiaticus and Dead Sea Scrolls)

Then there's the plethora of scripture quotes in all kinds of books and letters from over the millennia to the point where we could put together the Bible accurately from these quotes alone.
On top of all this we have archeological evidence that shows places, coins, buildings, roads, and caves that correspond perfectly with scriptures.
 
Exactly JohnDB
I'm curious of 1on0ne 's background within Christianity. I mean, what event drove him to these conclusions.

It seems obvious that something went terribly wrong in his life and he is seeking answers to satisfy his soul. But I'm guessing somebody taught him wrong at a younger age which shows us the destruction that can occur when we have thousands of denominations each teaching what they want to hear in order to rebel and rail against his brother.

Hate perpetuating hate. Does it ever end? But more importantly, how can we not participate in the hate?
 
StoveBolts said:
Exactly JohnDB
I'm curious of 1on0ne 's background within Christianity. I mean, what event drove him to these conclusions.

It seems obvious that something went terribly wrong in his life and he is seeking answers to satisfy his soul. But I'm guessing somebody taught him wrong at a younger age which shows us the destruction that can occur when we have thousands of denominations each teaching what they want to hear in order to rebel and rail against his brother.

Hate perpetuating hate. Does it ever end? But more importantly, how can we not participate in the hate?
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It's amazing how sometimes the things (AKA garbage) that we were taught as children can stick with us even as adults. For example I was brainwashed into believing that God was an angry God and should be feared and even though as an adult I now believe Him to be a God of love, I still have that in the back of my mind that He is just angry even though I choose to love, honor, and respect Him and constantly counting my sins. :sad It was this exact fear that caused me to run away from Him and backslide instead of running to Him.


Even though they're just lies (along with I'm stupid, fat, and ugly) I heard them so much as a child it's really rather difficult to forget about them unfortunately.
 
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