Jennifer Cumbley - Oxford School Shooting found guilty

[stovebolts]

Jennifer Crumbley was found guilty of four counts of manslaughter for the Oxford Mi school shooting by her son Ethan Crumbley.

Personally, after watching the majority of the trail the past two weeks, I lament over this verdict and frankly, I don’t understand how they found her guilty based on the evidence and testimony.

The whole situation is tragic.

Mother of student killed in Oxford High School shooting praises Jennifer Crumbley verdict, saying 'accountability is a must'

Nicole Beausoleil, the mother of Madisyn Baldwin, said the landmark verdict Tuesday “sets a new precedence to the justice system.”

www.nbcnews.com

 

[jasonc]

Jennifer Crumbley was found guilty of four counts of manslaughter for the Oxford Mi school shooting by her son Ethan Crumbley.

Personally, after watching the majority of the trail the past two weeks, I lament over this verdict and frankly, I don’t understand how they found her guilty based on the evidence and testimony.

The whole situation is tragic.

Mother of student killed in Oxford High School shooting praises Jennifer Crumbley verdict, saying 'accountability is a must'

Nicole Beausoleil, the mother of Madisyn Baldwin, said the landmark verdict Tuesday “sets a new precedence to the justice system.”

www.nbcnews.com

I glanced at it .the media spins things so I wasn't too sure if the verdict was right .my problem is that this will simply not to a thing to stop those intent on commiting a crime ,make it harder to own a gun.
A cop friend hardly pro open carry but pro 2a said that a gun safe should have a bio metrics key to open fast with a key back up.

That isn't bad but again if I want to go kill someone I could use a manual key and take that gun .

 

[stovebolts]

I glanced at it .the media spins things so I wasn't too sure if the verdict was right .my problem is that this will simply not to a thing to stop those intent on commiting a crime ,make it harder to own a gun.
A cop friend hardly pro open carry but pro 2a said that a gun safe should have a bio metrics key to open fast with a key back up.

That isn't bad but again if I want to go kill someone I could use a manual key and take that gun .

My wife and I watched the trial almost daily on uoutube. The media has been demonizing her the whole time and basically going lock step with the prosecutor. Honestly, I don’t know how the jurors came to their conclusion…

I hope her sentence is concurrent and light.

 

[jasonc]

My wife and I watched the trial almost daily on uoutube. The media has been demonizing her the whole time and basically going lock step with the prosecutor. Honestly, I don’t know how the jurors came to their conclusion…

I hope her sentence is concurrent and light.

Well said tim pool calling them as one missing cockroaches who scurry ones kitchen when turning the lights on .

 

[ezrider]

Jennifer Crumbley was found guilty of four counts of manslaughter for the Oxford Mi school shooting by her son Ethan Crumbley.

Personally, after watching the majority of the trail the past two weeks, I lament over this verdict and frankly, I don’t understand how they found her guilty based on the evidence and testimony.

The whole situation is tragic.

Mother of student killed in Oxford High School shooting praises Jennifer Crumbley verdict, saying 'accountability is a must'

Nicole Beausoleil, the mother of Madisyn Baldwin, said the landmark verdict Tuesday “sets a new precedence to the justice system.”

www.nbcnews.com

I didn't watch the trial, only saw a few snippets of it on the news, then saw the verdict. She was found guilty by a jury of her peers, and I don't know your state like you do, but would you say that most of the jurors were probably second amendment supporters? The only thing I might find confusing is if the father is tried on the same counts and is exonerated, but we'll have to wait on that one yet.

Would you agree that this stems from the lack of any measurable political will to pass reasonable gun legislation restricting access to assault style weapons and such, background checks, aftermarket sales? Who do you hold responsible? Outside of the kid himself, are not the parents responsible? Is it really being responsible buying a 16 year old an assault style weapon?

When I was young, the only thing my father gave me to shoot was a BB gun. By the time I was 16 I was able shoot a 22 rifle, and a few times a 12 gauge with birdshot. It wasn't til I was in the Air Force in basic training where I shot an M16 for my first and only time. I've shot a few different handguns at times, but personally I don't get the fascination with guns assault rifles and the fervent desire to believe the second amendment grants no kind governmental regulations or restrictions.

So, yeah, in this case, I have no problem if a jury of her peers found her guilty of involuntary manslaughter, and for the sake of continuity, may the father be found guilty as well. Maybe then other parents will think twice, or even thrice before buying their mentally unstable teenager a gun. If there is no will to pass effective legislation, then perhaps this verdict serves as an effective deterrent.

I guess the only question I would have to wrestle with is, at what age of the kid can the parents no longer be held responsible? This kid was under 18 and was still in high school, so that one seems fairly straight forward in my mind. But there have been college shootings as well. Can you hold the parents responsible if they are over 18 and in college? That becomes a tricky one. If they have moved out of the house, then I would say the parents would not be responsible, but what if they were still living under their parents roof while attending college?

 

[Hopeful 2]

I hope that verdict wakes up some parents.

 

[Riven]

I want to know why younger people today are so mentally ill.

 

[stovebolts]

I didn't watch the trial, only saw a few snippets of it on the news, then saw the verdict. She was found guilty by a jury of her peers, and I don't know your state like you do, but would you say that most of the jurors were probably second amendment supporters?

My wife and I watched the majority of the trial. You would do well to do the same before you share your opinion.
My wife looked up the jurors and each of them with the exception of one owned firearms.
Oxford is a stones throw from my town and my son wrestled against Oxford for years. One of the gals from church has a granddaughter that is a student at Oxford and was the only student not shot in the hallway when Ethan came through. She pretended to be dead and felt him brush by. When he was out of site she pulled a classmate who had been shot into a room, applied pressure to the wound and used her cell to call the students mother. She survived. A good friend of mine has a friend that I don’t know and his grandson was one of the students who died.

Would you agree that this stems from the lack of any measurable political will to pass reasonable gun legislation restricting access to assault style weapons and such, background checks, aftermarket sales?

It was a 9mm purchased by his Father. I wouldn’t call that an assault weapon. Short of banning the sale of guns, your not going to legislate this incident through political will or tougher gun laws.

Who do you hold responsible? Outside of the kid himself, are not the parents responsible? Is it really being responsible buying a 16 year old an assault style weapon?

Again, I’m not going to say a 9mm is an assault weapon.
Watching the trial, I hold the school more responsible for this shooting than the parents. You really should watch the testimony of the assistant dean. It’s time to get rid of all these politically correct rights the students have…. All it would have taken to prevent the tragedy was a quick search of Ethan’s back pack.
It’s not that I don’t think the parents didn’t hold any responsibility, but they did what the school required. The school should be held accountable as well.

I do believe this is a wake up call for parents. I purchased a shotgun for my son when he was 12. It, along with all our firearms remained in our safe and our son did not have access to the safe.

The Father purchased the gun and was responsible for securing it. I find more fault with him than Jennifer who didn’t even know how to shoot a gun.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

I live in Michigan myself. The message I hope comes across with this verdict; is that parents need to take an active role in their children's life. You cannot be an "innocent bystander" in providing the support and guidance all children need. If an affair with another man, and horses are more important; then you should not have children.

 

[jasonc]

My wife and I watched the majority of the trial. You would do well to do the same before you share your opinion.
My wife looked up the jurors and each of them with the exception of one owned firearms.
Oxford is a stones throw from my town and my son wrestled against Oxford for years. One of the gals from church has a granddaughter that is a student at Oxford and was the only student not shot in the hallway when Ethan came through. She pretended to be dead and felt him brush by. When he was out of site she pulled a classmate who had been shot into a room, applied pressure to the wound and used her cell to call the students mother. She survived. A good friend of mine has a friend that I don’t know and his grandson was one of the students who died.

It was a 9mm purchased by his Father. I wouldn’t call that an assault weapon. Short of banning the sale of guns, your not going to legislate this incident through political will or tougher gun laws.


Again, I’m not going to say a 9mm is an assault weapon.
Watching the trial, I hold the school more responsible for this shooting than the parents. You really should watch the testimony of the assistant dean. It’s time to get rid of all these politically correct rights the students have…. All it would have taken to prevent the tragedy was a quick search of Ethan’s back pack.
It’s not that I don’t think the parents didn’t hold any responsibility, but they did what the school required. The school should be held accountable as well.

I do believe this is a wake up call for parents. I purchased a shotgun for my son when he was 12. It, along with all our firearms remained in our safe and our son did not have access to the safe.

The Father purchased the gun and was responsible for securing it. I find more fault with him than Jennifer who didn’t even know how to shoot a gun.

My alma mater had a simple scare and they installed metal detectors . It won't catch all guns but it will do more then nothing .it goes off and they find out what triggered the metal my handguns are mixed of both metal and plastic

 

[stovebolts]

live in Michigan myself

Hello neighbor!

The message I hope comes across with this verdict; is that parents need to take an active role in their children's life.

I don’t think that’s going to be the message people hear.
I think the message people will hear is this. If you own firearms, you will be held responsible if your child gains access and causes harm.
I believe this trial set that presidence. Zero tolerance.

If an affair with another man, and horses are more important; then you should not have children.

I find that judgement against her a bit harsh.
I have no doubt she loved her son. She also lost her son through this ordeal. Every hope and dream she had for him is not only gone, but she has to come to grips with the inhumane actions he committed.

It’s sad…

 

[WIP]

I think a big question that comes out of this is to what extent are parents or legal guardians responsible for their children's actions and behavior?

My dad always kept his rifles on a gun rack on the wall with the ammunition stored on a shelf on the bottom of the rack. How easy would it have been for me or any one of my six siblings to get our hands on them?

I have always kept my firearms locked in a gun cabinet in our bedroom. That was the most practical place to keep it in our home. They are always unloaded and the ammunition is stored in a separate part of the cabinet which is also locked. The key is kept on the top of the cabinet even without the key, the gun cabinet has a glass front so it could easily be broken into and since the cabinet is made of wood, a simple pry bar would bust into the ammunition storage as well. It would be easy for our children to get their hands on my guns as well.

If for some reason one or more of my siblings, daughters, or myself before we were adults had ever chosen to take one of those firearms and do something heinous, how much responsibility for that goes back to my parents or myself with regard to our daughters?

One thing to keep in mind is that here in MN and I suspect this is true in every state, it is illegal for a child under the age of 16 to have in possession a firearm unless accompanied by an adult legal guardian and this is only if they have completed a firearms safety course. If they have completed the course, then they can legally be in possession of a firearm for shooting sports, hunting, and target shooting without adult supervision.

Let's take that a step further? Suppose a child that has not yet obtained a driver's license gets behind the wheel of a vehicle and kills somebody. What responsibility does a parent or legal guardian have in that situation?

 

[jasonc]

I think a big question that comes out of this is to what extent are parents or legal guardians responsible for their children's actions and behavior?

My dad always kept his rifles on a gun rack on the wall with the ammunition stored on a shelf on the bottom of the rack. How easy would it have been for me or any one of my six siblings to get our hands on them?

I have always kept my firearms locked in a gun cabinet in our bedroom. That was the most practical place to keep it in our home. They are always unloaded and the ammunition is stored in a separate part of the cabinet which is also locked. The key is kept on the top of the cabinet even without the key, the gun cabinet has a glass front so it could easily be broken into and since the cabinet is made of wood, a simple pry bar would bust into the ammunition storage as well. It would be easy for our children to get their hands on my guns as well.

If for some reason one or more of my siblings, daughters, or myself before we were adults had ever chosen to take one of those firearms and do something heinous, how much responsibility for that goes back to my parents or myself with regard to our daughters?

One thing to keep in mind is that here in MN and I suspect this is true in every state, it is illegal for a child under the age of 16 to have in possession a firearm unless accompanied by an adult legal guardian and this is only if they have completed a firearms safety course. If they have completed the course, then they can legally be in possession of a firearm for shooting sports, hunting, and target shooting without adult supervision.

Let's take that a step further? Suppose a child that has not yet obtained a driver's license gets behind the wheel of a vehicle and kills somebody. What responsibility does a parent or legal guardian have in that situation?

There's stories on minors here able to drive legally and killing a few and fleeing .

 

[stovebolts]

think a big question that comes out of this is to what extent are parents or legal guardians responsible for their children's actions and behavior?

This case sets that standard and it looks like it’s on a razors edge of zero tolerance.

I don’t think it’s right, but I also understand that something has to happen to curb all the school shootings.

If you get a chance, look up the trial on YouTube. Look for the episode with the assistant dean and then watch closing arguments. It will open your eyes.

Parents and students are sick of kids getting guns and going on missions to slaughter innocent kids at school. Watch those two videos and ask why the school goes Scott free and why the mother who doesn’t even know how to shoot a gun gets charged with four counts of manslaughter.

 

[secretmessenger]

The ultimate goal of the current administration is to disarm the general population, it is just that simple. Media works hand in pocket to make sure we the general public only know the details that support that goal.

Guns are not the issue, the issue is the rampant psychological damage being foisted upon our children by a certain sinful ideological stain on our culture. Instead of seeing the danger signs of a particularly unstable frame of mind we are being coerced into accepting it as normal behavior, thereby taking no action to help mitigate and get our children back on the right path towards Holiness and Truth. The gun itself is a powerful tool for good or for evil, but it is only a tool. The gun will not kill anyone on its own accord, the gun doesn't whisper to our children day and night like nor does it advise them on what kind of people are intolerable to society.

there are solutions to these problems, but greater harm is done by making gun free zones or a gun free nation than benefit.

If no one has acess to guns (and criminals always will) then the next most effective weapon will be used wether that be knives, buckets of acid, or stones. If no one but the government has acess to guns (which is the specific scenario the 2nd amendment addresses) then that government will become emboldened to exercise absolute dominance over the people thereby destroying our republic and transforming it into a other dictatorship of the current administrations choosing.

Food for thought, how many mass shootings occur in areas that are known to have a firearm presence and the willingness to defend those within their walls? Good people which are armed and trained on the scene are always far more effective than police which take 30 minutes to show up and start negotiating, when a mass shooting begins every second is crucial, every second is a life.

 

[Uncle J]

If you own firearms, you will be held responsible if your child gains access and causes harm.

Isn't that a good thing?

 

[Uncle J]

The ultimate goal of the current administration is to disarm the general population, it is just that simple.

LOL....right, just like Obama and Clinton were going to do. Heck, as long as you're tuning in to the golden oldies station, why not say President Biden is going to put Christians in FEMA camps? I always liked that one.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

It’s sad…

It is sad....and in one interview that woman gave she called her son an "ooopsie baby", a child she did not want to start with. But just because she didn't want the child to begin with, that does not excuse her from the responsibility. She could have given the child to a relative to raise (my aunt gave her first 2 to my grandparents); or she could have given the child to adoption, there are still good people who would love and care for a child like that.

As for the gun issue, that is just nonsense. I owned 2 guns as a child, they were never locked away. But I never even considered taking one of them to school to "shoot the school bully". I had been taught to never point a gun at anyone (even a toy gun); unless I planned to kill. And "Thou shalt not kill" was a Commandment that I was taught often in my childhood.

 

[jasonc]

The ultimate goal of the current administration is to disarm the general population, it is just that simple. Media works hand in pocket to make sure we the general public only know the details that support that goal.

Guns are not the issue, the issue is the rampant psychological damage being foisted upon our children by a certain sinful ideological stain on our culture. Instead of seeing the danger signs of a particularly unstable frame of mind we are being coerced into accepting it as normal behavior, thereby taking no action to help mitigate and get our children back on the right path towards Holiness and Truth. The gun itself is a powerful tool for good or for evil, but it is only a tool. The gun will not kill anyone on its own accord, the gun doesn't whisper to our children day and night like nor does it advise them on what kind of people are intolerable to society.

there are solutions to these problems, but greater harm is done by making gun free zones or a gun free nation than benefit.

If no one has acess to guns (and criminals always will) then the next most effective weapon will be used wether that be knives, buckets of acid, or stones. If no one but the government has acess to guns (which is the specific scenario the 2nd amendment addresses) then that government will become emboldened to exercise absolute dominance over the people thereby destroying our republic and transforming it into a other dictatorship of the current administrations choosing.

Food for thought, how many mass shootings occur in areas that are known to have a firearm presence and the willingness to defend those within their walls? Good people which are armed and trained on the scene are always far more effective than police which take 30 minutes to show up and start negotiating, when a mass shooting begins every second is crucial, every second is a life.

My county has ,state , now without ccl to carry ,said account was a few weeks ago .police can and do store guns in schools .

Florida anyone ? Not all will carry .I didn't until two years ago . I keep my ccl because ga doesn't have a type of open carry law . They do recognize my ccl .

https://www.wptv.com/news/region-indian-river-county/vero-beach/template-vero-beach

 

[secretmessenger]

LOL....right, just like Obama and Clinton were going to do. Heck, as long as you're tuning in to the golden oldies station, why not say President Biden is going to put Christians in FEMA camps? I always liked that one.

I would be careful with the scoffing, scoffers don't tend to have very nice end results after all treating something as though it is not a problem, untill it is... well that's not a good long term survival strategy. I'd much rather be overly cautious when it comes to watching my leaders and the policy they both endorse and put forth than laugh at everyone who tells me the flood is coming.