Jeremiah 17:9.

[justbyfaith]

Nope. Actually read what Paul wrote justbyfaith:

Romans 2:14-15 (NASB)
14 For when Gentiles (not fellow believers, or brethren) who do not have the Law (are not aware of it, which would be impossible for anyone who had heard and responded positively to the Gospel) do instinctively the things of the Law (this indicates obedience to God's Moral Law that is merely reflexive, having nothing to do with a knowledge, or love, of Christ), these not having the Law, are a law to themselves (how are born-again believers ever a "law to themselves"?),
15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts (aka - the common Moral Sense possessed of every human person), their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them (no mention of the conviction of the indwelling Spirit, only the action of human conscience and reason),

In light of what Paul wrote above, taken simply and straightforwardly, there is no textual support for the assertion that Paul was referring to Gentile believers in this passage but good reason in the text to think he was referring to non-believers.

Gentile believers without the law, are a law unto themselves in that they are obedient to the law even though they don't have the law.

This would not be true of a moral act itself, only, possibly, of the motives of the actor of it. It is obvious that saving a child from a burning building, regardless of motive, is a good, a moral, act. Would you call the act of saving the child itself an immoral, that is, evil, deed? Surely not; that would be moral insanity.

I am saying that a bad tree cannot bear good fruit; and that therefore a false prophet will not rescue a baby from a burning building unless it is their job to do so. Their act of rescuing the baby would be devoid of the love of God; which is the fruit of the Spirit.

In any case, the "good fruit" of the false prophet is, of course, fundamentally corrupt. It was only about their "fruit" Jesus was remarking.

??? Are you now agreeing with me? It seems so...

It seems that you are now agreeing with me...

I have no idea what this means, exactly, in the context of Christ's words about false prophets.

It means that a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Period.

Where does he say this?

Matthew 7:23.

Jesus said not a word about the false prophets "practicing iniquity on the side," or "their ministries were tainted by sin."

He did; in Matthew 7:23.

Jesus never said the false prophets were themselves "rotten fruit," only their deeds. Instead, he described them as "ravening wolves" and "false." The "badness" of their "fruit" was in the fact that it was all divorced from a love for God. As I explained, freeing people from demonic possession - and in Christ's name, what's more - was clearly a moral act; performing miracles (likely healing) in Christ's name was a good thing to do; prophesying (aka preaching) in Christ's name was also not immoral. But there was no love for God in any of this stuff and certainly no godly love for His "sheep," upon whom the false prophets were preying. This was the "taint" upon all they did, not some particular, lesser sin, like adultery, or gluttony, or pride (though they might have been guilty of such things). Such sins are always mere symptoms of a heart that doesn't truly desire (that is, love) God deeply.

The problem with these people who were doing "wonderful works in His name" was that they were practicing iniquity on the side (Matthew 7:23).

 

[gordon777]

It may not be expedient to withdraw one's self from a debate concerning doctrine if you are contending for the faith.

Jde 1:3, Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jde 1:4, For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, <even> our Lord Jesus Christ.

Or, you admit it is a debate, and God testified, who in this time right now, the end of all things, they are debating and wont stop debating. ( I just answered you on the thread of, forum fruits.)


Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

 

[gordon777]

Anyone but myself, questioning why the forum blatantly promotes and encourages debate, which is strife and contention ?

This thread is nothing but a carried on debate, just for the sake of hearing opinion, and for solving nothing, no holy conversation, no godliness, only ignoring of anything of the Gospel of Christ at all.

Why have the Ops never even tried to pretend they are monitoring a godly webpage. It can only be because it is the end, and many approve of evil now.

 

[Tenchi]

Gentile believers without the law, are a law unto themselves in that they are obedient to the law even though they don't have the law.

No, this ignores the context within which the statement that they are a "law unto themselves" is made which indicates that the Gentile in view is not a believer. I already explained these points so I won't do so again.

I am saying that a bad tree cannot bear good fruit; and that therefore a false prophet will not rescue a baby from a burning building unless it is their job to do so. Their act of rescuing the baby would be devoid of the love of God; which is the fruit of the Spirit.

There are other motivations from which a false prophet might act morally besides remuneration: Self-righteousness, religious pride, desire for power - these are equally likely motivations for their "righteous deeds" than money (probably, though, they are all motivations in the "ravening wolf" who is the false prophet).

In any case, I'm glad to see that you're recognizing what I've been arguing for, which is that the good deeds done by the false prophets were useless spiritually (aka - "bad fruit") since they did not arise from a motive of love for God.

It means that a bad tree cannot produce good fruit. Period.

If, by "bad fruit," you mean obedience to God's law that is devoid of a love for Him, then, yes. But "bad fruit" is not a reference to the moral character of an act, like freeing someone from demon possession, which would be, obviously, an intrinsically morally-good deed regardless of one's motivation for performing it.

He did; in Matthew 7:23.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'

Jesus's primarily Jewish audience would have understood immediately what "lawlessness" it was of which the false prophets were guilty. No Jew would have thought to argue for their membership in God's kingdom apart from the First and Great Commandment.

Deuteronomy 6:4-7 (NASB)
4 "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
7 "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

Deuteronomy 10:12 (NASB)
12 "Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Deuteronomy 11:1 (NASB)
1 "You shall therefore love the LORD your God...

Deuteronomy 11:13-14 (NASB)
13 "It shall come about, if you listen obediently to my commandments which I am commanding you today, to love the LORD your God and to serve Him with all your heart and all your soul,
14 that He will give the rain for your land in its season, the early and late rain, that you may gather in your grain and your new wine and your oil.

Joshua 23:11 (NASB)
11 "So take diligent heed to yourselves to love the LORD your God.

Psalm 31:23 (NASB)
23 O love the LORD, all you His godly ones! The LORD preserves the faithful...

Psalm 145:20 (NASB)
20 The LORD keeps all who love Him, But all the wicked He will destroy.

And so on. To Christ's original audience, the "lawlessness" of the false prophets was obvious - especially in light of the fact that they were "ravening wolves."

The problem with these people who were doing "wonderful works in His name" was that they were practicing iniquity on the side (Matthew 7:23).

See above.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Anyone but myself, questioning why the forum blatantly promotes and encourages debate, which is strife and contention ?

This thread is nothing but a carried on debate, just for the sake of hearing opinion, and for solving nothing, no holy conversation, no godliness, only ignoring of anything of the Gospel of Christ at all.

Why have the Ops never even tried to pretend they are monitoring a godly webpage. It can only be because it is the end, and many approve of evil now.

“Anyone but yourself….” that has been a constant theme.

 

[justbyfaith]

Or, you admit it is a debate, and God testified, who in this time right now, the end of all things, they are debating and wont stop debating. ( I just answered you on the thread of, forum fruits.)


Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

2 Corinthians 12:20 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults:

Anyone but myself, questioning why the forum blatantly promotes and encourages debate, which is strife and contention ?

This thread is nothing but a carried on debate, just for the sake of hearing opinion, and for solving nothing, no holy conversation, no godliness, only ignoring of anything of the Gospel of Christ at all.

Why have the Ops never even tried to pretend they are monitoring a godly webpage. It can only be because it is the end, and many approve of evil now.

Forum fruit.

What fruit is, or can be evidenced on forums ? Does people being for 12-15 years on forums, evidence fruit of the Spirit, or evidence that no fruit can be in places that show Christianity, as discussion value only ? How many people actually realize they do the very opposite to the fruit of the...

christianforums.net

 

[justbyfaith]

No, this ignores the context within which the statement that they are a "law unto themselves" is made which indicates that the Gentile in view is not a believer. I already explained these points so I won't do so again.

That they are a "law unto themselves" does not denote that they are necessarily unbelievers.

In fact, it indicates faith on their part.

23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'

In the kjv, it is rendered "iniquity", which I think is, by far, a better translation.