Jeremiah 17:9.

[justbyfaith]

Job 2:3 (NASB)
3 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."

Of you look deeper into Job, you will find that the reason for Job's trial was his potential tendency towards self-righteousness.

The conversation with Job's friends brought this out and when it became evident, it was addressed by Elihu (not one of Job's three friends) as sin.

Genesis 6:8-9 (NASB)
8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

Noah became a drunkard later on.

Acts 13:22 (NASB)
22 "After He had removed him, He raised up David to be their king, concerning whom He also testified and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID the son of Jesse, A MAN AFTER MY HEART, who will do all My will.'

David committed adultery with Bathesheba and murdered Uriah in order to cover up his sin.

 

[Tenchi]

No scripture is "diffused" by its context.

Every verse in holy scripture stands on its own as a bastion of spiritual truth.

Nonsense. And deeply dangerous, too. What you have asserted here is a sure-fire way to fall into deep falsehood. A text removed from its context becomes a pretext.

Context, whether topical or immediate, will never nullify the plain meaning of a verse.

This is a first rule of hermeneutics; based on the concept that the Bile doesn't contradict itself.

The "plain meaning of a verse" is only fully grasped by considering the verse in its immediate context. To deny this is to be sure to have the Bible in contradiction to itself.

 

[Tenchi]

Of you look deeper into Job, you will find that the reason for Job's trial was his potential tendency towards self-righteousness.

And so? Is God's description of Job false, then? Was God lying, or mistaken, about Job?

Noah became a drunkard later on.

Again, is the record of Scripture concerning Noah that I cited a lie, then? What is your point here, exactly?

David committed adultery with Bathesheba and murdered Uriah in order to cover up his sin.

Yes, and? He is STILL described by God in His word as a man after His own heart. Is this false? Was God telling a lie about David?

 

[justbyfaith]

Nonsense. And deeply dangerous, too. What you have asserted here is a sure-fire way to fall into deep falsehood. A text removed from its context becomes a pretext.

The "plain meaning of a verse" is only fully grasped by considering the verse in its immediate context. To deny this is to be sure to have the Bible in contradiction to itself.

Yet, Matthew took Hosea 11:1 out of context in Matthew 2:15; applying what originally referred to Israel to Jesus as being the Son of God.

And in 2 Corinthians 9:6, the immediate context is about financial sowing and reaping; yet a more orthodox interpretation can be found (of sowing and reaping the word and its fruits) when you apply Luke 8:11 to the verse; which is taking the verse out of its immediate context.

Finally, in John 19:37, a prophetic verse is applied to the crucifixion which in its original context applies to the 2nd coming of Christ (Zechariah 12:10).

And therefore, your contention that the plain meaning of a verse can only be grasped by considering its immediate context, is found to be a faulty premise.

And also, no verse of holy scripture contradicts any other verse of holy scripture; because the Bible doesn't contradict itself.

 

[justbyfaith]

And so? Is God's description of Job false, then? Was God lying, or mistaken, about Job?

Again, is the record of Scripture concerning Noah that I cited a lie, then? What is your point here, exactly?

Yes, and? He is STILL described by God in His word as a man after His own heart. Is this false? Was God telling a lie about David?

The righteousness of these men was based on faith, even as we find the doctrine of justification by faith in the New Testament; and not by their performance.

 

[Tenchi]

Yet, Matthew took Hosea 11:1 out of context in Matthew 2:15; applying what originally referred to Israel to Jesus as being the Son of God.

Yes, and? What did Matthew intend in using Hosea 11:1 in reference to Mary, Joseph and Jesus fleeing into Egypt from Herod's murderous interest? Was he mishandling Scripture?

Hosea 11:1 (NASB)
1 When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son.
I think there is room in this verse to apply it comfortably both to Israel being freed from bondage in Egypt and to Jesus being called by God out of Egypt, whence his parents had fled from Herod. This is aided by the clearly figurative language of the verse that refers to the nation, Israel, as a "youth" and "son." Applied to Christ, however, the last half of the verse has no figurative character, but is literal - a prophecy, in fact, as Matthew indicated. It seems to me an example of the incredible divine genius of God's word that such a remarkable parallel of meaning is, at times, possible in it. I don't, then, see Matthew doing violence to the intent or meaning of Hosea 11:1, taking it out of context as you assert.

And in 2 Corinthians 9:6, the immediate context is about financial sowing and reaping; yet a more orthodox interpretation can be found (of sowing and reaping the word and its fruits) when you apply Luke 8:11 to the verse; which is taking the verse out of its immediate context.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 (NASB)
6 Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

Luke 8:11 (NASB)
11 "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.

It is a...strange thing to think that these passages have any direct link to one another since they address two entirely different things. The mere employment of similar terms in the two scriptural instances doesn't necessarily connect them in meaning. As you noted, Paul is using the "sowing" metaphor in reference to the principle that whatever one "sows" in their life - joy or anger, peace or dissension, love or hate, etc. - they will, in due time, "reap" the same (Galatian 6:7-8).

Jesus had no such principle in mind in Luke 8:11, but was using "sowing seed" in reference to the truth of Scripture. There is, then, no reason to examine Paul's words in light of Christ's, or compare them. I also don't see how Christ's use of the metaphor of sowing is "more orthodox" than Paul's. What, exactly, makes it so?

Finally, in John 19:37, a prophetic verse is applied to the crucifixion which in its original context applies to the 2nd coming of Christ (Zechariah 12:10).

John 19:36-37 (NASB)
36 For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, "NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN."
37 And again another Scripture says, "THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED."
Zechariah 12:10 (NASB)
10 "I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

There is no way that I can see to argue that John misused Zechariah 12:10, improperly extracting it from its context to make it say something it doesn't. The verse is plainly not solely occupied with God preserving Jerusalem and its inhabitants, but makes a very obvious reference to Christ, which I underlined. Inasmuch as the piercing of Christ on the cross was centuries distant, this bit of the verse was offered by Zechariah, not as a detail concerning Jerusalem, but as a prophecy about Christ, which John very correctly observed in his Gospel. I don't, then, see the violence done to context that you seem to think exists in John's reference to Zechariah's prophecy. Nothing in the context in which Zechariah 12:10 sits forbids John's using the prophetic portion of the verse as he did.

And therefore, your contention that the plain meaning of a verse can only be grasped by considering its immediate context, is found to be a faulty premise.

You haven't even begun to make anything like a solid case for this assertion. See above.

And also, no verse of holy scripture contradicts any other verse of holy scripture; because the Bible doesn't contradict itself.

Obviously. Which is why understanding a verse in its immediate context and then synthesizing it with the rest of God's word is so important. Failing to do so ends up with Scripture in tension with itself, as is so often the case in how believers use Jeremiah 17:9.

The righteousness of these men was based on faith, even as we find the doctrine of justification by faith in the New Testament; and not by their performance.

Please establish this from the references I gave. None of them say anything about "righteousness by faith." And even if they did, in light of them, Jeremiah cannot be taken to mean that the heart of every person is just boiling with mad evil, ready at any moment to burst forth, though this is how some want to misconstrue the verse.

 

[justbyfaith]

Please establish this from the references I gave. None of them say anything about "righteousness by faith." And even if they did, in light of them, Jeremiah cannot be taken to mean that the heart of every person is just boiling with mad evil, ready at any moment to burst forth, though this is how some want to misconstrue the verse.

It is established on the basis of the fact that the righteousness of the aforementioned three men could not have been referring to a practical righteousness; as I pointed out what were the sins of the three aforementioned men.

Also, I think that the three examples of biblical authors taking scripture out of context are adequate examples and that they establish a precedent for taking scripture at face value, accepting that every scripture stands on its own as a bastion of spiritual truth.

For you have not adequately shown that these scriptures were not taken out of context.

 

[justbyfaith]

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 (NASB)
6 Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
7 Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed;

Luke 8:11 (NASB)
11 "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.

It is a...strange thing to think that these passages have any direct link to one another since they address two entirely different things. The mere employment of similar terms in the two scriptural instances doesn't necessarily connect them in meaning. As you noted, Paul is using the "sowing" metaphor in reference to the principle that whatever one "sows" in their life - joy or anger, peace or dissension, love or hate, etc. - they will, in due time, "reap" the same (Galatian 6:7-8).

Jesus had no such principle in mind in Luke 8:11, but was using "sowing seed" in reference to the truth of Scripture. There is, then, no reason to examine Paul's words in light of Christ's, or compare them. I also don't see how Christ's use of the metaphor of sowing is "more orthodox" than Paul's. What, exactly, makes it so?

So, your interpretation is with the word of faith / health-wealth / prosperity teachers in all of this?

Noted that you side with what is considered to be false teaching on the matter.

 

[justbyfaith]

I don't, then, see Matthew doing violence to the intent or meaning of Hosea 11:1, taking it out of context as you assert.

He was in fact taking it out of its original context; for in the original context, "my son" refers distinctly to Israel.

 

[justbyfaith]

Nothing in the context in which Zechariah 12:10 sits forbids John's using the prophetic portion of the verse as he did.

And all I'm saying is that in the original context, it is referring to the 2nd coming; while in the quoted verse it is in reference to the crucifixion.

So, that is a breach of context.

 

[gordon777]

We receive a new heart via the gratitude that comes when we realize that we have been forgiven of great wickedness and that we are still undeserving of the grace that has been given to us.

It should be clear that while Abraham did not receive the promise of such things as the promised land which was promised to him, that he was in fact justified by faith (Genesis 15:6) just as is the case with NT saints.

Gen 15:6, And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

They without us ( including Abraham and all without Christ coming to us in the new testament.) not made perfect, here is where perfection came:


Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Hebrews 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[gordon777]

That is true and is my point exactly.

We also need to be given ears to hear with to do them/ the Spirit to understand the faith and fear of the Lord.


1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

 

[gordon777]

Uh huh. And yet, God's word records:

Job 2:3 (NASB)
3 The LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man fearing God and turning away from evil. And he still holds fast his integrity, although you incited Me against him to ruin him without cause."

Genesis 6:8-9 (NASB)
8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
9 These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.

Acts 13:22 (NASB)
22 "After He had removed him, He raised up David to be their king, concerning whom He also testified and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID the son of Jesse, A MAN AFTER MY HEART, who will do all My will.'

And so on. The heart of Man is sin-sick, yes, but this doesn't mean that all human beings are as wicked as they could be, totally depraved in all respects, as some want to assert from verses like Jeremiah 17:9. Does this mean that there are some people who don't require the atoning sacrifice of Christ for their sin? No, of course not. "For all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory." (Romans 3:23) But the corollary to this is NOT that every person is, therefore, a seething cauldron of vile wickedness, desperate to enact evil at every turn.

All who are not sick/wicked, as much as others have the Spirit.


Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.




Does this mean they can be as we have to be with Christ showing us His perfection, no it does not.



Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[gordon777]

Why not talk about the thread title, and regards to the heart deceitful and wicked, and the Lord searching the hearts ?

Romans 8, the new testament is direct answer of what is being told in Jeremiah 17:9-10.

Christ is making intercession for those who are called, Christ is who searches the hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit.

They are conformed to the image of the Son of God ( HIs heart and Spirit.) and moreover, whom He called, He justified, and whom He justified He also glorified.

We are commanded to have charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned. To follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. We draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. ( This explains for all, of the purpose of the Lord searching the hearts, because they are purified through the faith of Christ. Acts 15:9.)



Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.


1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[gordon777]

We are saved by the hope of eternal life, that Christ suffering death for us brought to us, this is us enabled to have a heart of faith.


Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.



Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 5: 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.



The word of faith that is preached, is in our heart, ( in our mouth too for confession/godliness, to depart from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:19. 2:25. Titus 1:1.) to believe in our heart that God raised Christ from the dead, is believing unto righteousness, to be saved. ( the heart is purified from being wicked. Jeremiah 17:9-10.)



Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

We also need to be given ears to hear with to do them/ the Spirit to understand the faith and fear of the Lord.


1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Where do the scriptures say God is responsible for giving people ears to hear the Spirit?

 

[Tenchi]

It is established on the basis of the fact that the righteousness of the aforementioned three men could not have been referring to a practical righteousness; as I pointed out what were the sins of the three aforementioned men.

??? It doesn't follow that, because a man has sinned in one instance, he has never done anything morally good, never been obedient to God's commands, in any other. But what you've written here seems to assume that such a thing is the case. Your thinking seems to be that, if Noah got drunk, he was, therefore, an unrelieved moral wretch. But surely you can see how unwarranted this thinking is. Moral perfection is beyond any man or woman, but being obedient to God, enacting moral good, is not, as a result, impossible. People do good and bad things regularly, helping a neighbor shovel snow from their driveway in the morning, but arguing pettily with their spouse in the afternoon. And so, it is entirely unremarkable that men like Noah, or David, or Job, while guilty of sin, were still, on the whole, viewed by God as good, righteous men.

Since such men existed in the OT, apart from the imputed righteousness of Christ, then Jeremiah 17:9 has to be dialed back in the thinking of some and not considered as an across-the-board characterization of every person as an out-and-out moral monster, like some want to assert.

Also, I think that the three examples of biblical authors taking scripture out of context are adequate examples and that they establish a precedent for taking scripture at face value, accepting that every scripture stands on its own as a bastion of spiritual truth.

For you have not adequately shown that these scriptures were not taken out of context.

As I explained, none of the verses you offered are examples of taking Scripture out of context. Merely saying you think otherwise doesn't constitute a solid, reasoned rebuttal of what I've pointed out about each of them.

So, your interpretation is with the word of faith / health-wealth / prosperity teachers in all of this?

Noted that you side with what is considered to be false teaching on the matter.

??? This is quite a leap you've made here - but typical, it seems, of what you do with what you read. In fact, I don't align with Word of Faith doctrine at all.

Do you know what the Poisoning the Well fallacy is? You're attempting it here. What's more, you neglected to offer any reasoned, scriptural rebuttal of what I explained from the text in question.

He was in fact taking it out of its original context; for in the original context, "my son" refers distinctly to Israel.

Just repeating your mistaken idea about the verse doesn't dissolve everything I pointed out about it's prophetic character. Do you have an actual exegetical rebuttal to my observations? Or is doubling-down on your mistake all you've got?

As I pointed out, "my son" is used figuratively for Israel and prophetically and literally for Christ. The former doesn't preclude the latter, hence Matthew referring to it in reference to Christ rather than Israel.

And all I'm saying is that in the original context, it is referring to the 2nd coming; while in the quoted verse it is in reference to the crucifixion.

So, that is a breach of context.

No, the part of the verse that John cites was clearly prophetic and, as such, extending in its import beyond the immediate context of Zechariah's words concerning Jerusalem. John does no violence, then, to the context of Zechariah's words, referring only to those of his words in the verse that pointed to the future.

 

[justbyfaith]

Perfection is God's requirement for anyone to be considered morally good.

And the reality is, that all three examples that I have given are truly examples of the authors of the Bible taking other scripture out of its original context.

You seem to think that you can finagle your way into making a case otherwise; but it is clear to me that my premise, that every verse in holy scripture stands on its own as a bastion of spiritual truth, has every basis in reality. The reality is that the scripture does not contradict itself; and therefore the context of a scripture is never going to nullify the plain meaning of that scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

??? This is quite a leap you've made here - but typical, it seems, of what you do with what you read. In fact, I don't align with Word of Faith doctrine at all.

2 Corinthians 9:6, if taken in its immediate context, actually purports the concept of the word of faith / health-wealth / prosperity teachers that we financially reap what we sow financially.

So, if you do not apply Luke 8:11 so that it is in reference to the word of the Lord rather than financial sowing and reaping, I'm afraid that you are stuck with the interpretation of the word of faith / health-wealth / prosperity teachers.

Just repeating your mistaken idea about the verse doesn't dissolve everything I pointed out about it's prophetic character. Do you have an actual exegetical rebuttal to my observations? Or is doubling-down on your mistake all you've got?

It appears that you are doubling down on your concept that the scripture can contradict itself and that therefore context is all-important.

No, the part of the verse that John cites was clearly prophetic and, as such, extending in its import beyond the immediate context of Zechariah's words concerning Jerusalem. John does no violence, then, to the context of Zechariah's words, referring only to those of his words in the verse that pointed to the future.

John clearly takes Zechariah's words out of context, applying them to the crucifixion when originally they apply to the 2nd coming.

 

[gordon777]

On the question about what does a wicked heart, deceitful above all mean ? It is well foretold by God, by the following three Apostles of the Lord Jesus Christ, that people will show themselves:


1. Full of unrighteousness, covetousness, full of envy, full of debate, inventers of evil things, without understanding, implacable. ( strong opinion/non correctable.)

2. Men will be covetous, unholy, fierce, heady, high minded. ( will not receive correction. Zephaniah 3:2.)

3. They will speak great swelling words, they will be mockers, they are sensual and have not the Spirit.

4. Envy and strife in the heart, that wisdom descends not from above, but is earthy sensual, devilish. ( where envy and strife is, there is confusion, and every evil work.)

5. False teachers who bring in damnable heresies, many follow their subtle ways, they speak evil of the way of truth.

6. They speak evil of the things they do not understand. ( they have not the Spirit/ no understanding.) they perish in their own corruption, they count it pleasure to riot in the day time, sporting themselves with their own deceiving, while they feast with you, beguiling unstable souls, having a heart that is exercised with covetous practises, they are cursed.




Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:


2 Timothy 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:




So, does it mean the heart is deceitful and wicked above all, is to believe those in debate/strife/ those who show they exercise their hearts with covetous practises, or this means that what is told above, is fulfilled in all the heretical threads that have appeared on forums in this end of the world., and it cannot be more apparent, this is fulfilled in every word and every lack of acceptance to the peaceful learning that is from above, which is easy to be entreated. ( James 3:17.)

If the debate goes on, ( which those who have exercised their hearts with covetous practises clearly will do.) it has answered why hearts are wicked and deceitful above all, the heart that never receives correction. ( Sensual, constantly in strife, showing no understanding in those ways, by not having not the Spirit, which is the heart is purified by faith,.)