Jesus and His Father are not the same Person

[Sothenes]

And it takes quite a stretch of the imagination to make Him so. Jesus expressly stated over and over again that He was/IS the Son of God. Now who must change these words in order to create their doctrine? Not I, for I simply accept Christ for who He TOLD us He IS. There is a Father, there is a Son and there is the Holy Spirit. But, these are NOT interchangeable. We are to worship ONE GOD AS GOD. No more, no less. We have ONE SON, OUR SAVIOR.

"In Jewish usage the term 'son of...' did not generally imply any subordination, but rather equality and identity of nature. Thus Bar Kokba, who led the Jewish revolt 132-135 A.D. in the reign of Hadrian, was called by a name which means 'Son of the Star.' It is supposed that he took this name to identify himself as the very Star predicted in Numbers 24:17. The name Son of Consolation (Acts 4:36) doubtless means,'The Consoler.' 'Sons of Thunder' (Mark 3:17) probably means 'Thunderous Men.' 'Son of Man,' especially as applied to Christ in Daniel 7:13 and constantly in the New Testament, essentially means 'The Representative Man.' Thus for Christ to say,'I am the Son of God' (John 10:36) was understood by His contemporaries as identifying Himself as God, equal with the Father in an unqualified sense.1

1. J. Oliver Buswell, A Systematic Theology of the Christian Religion (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1962), 1:105

 

[mutzrein]

Jesus just isn't The Word, He is The Word of God. You know it true, it is a direct quote from John.

Whether you believe Jesus is God, or if you believe that God created Jesus in the womb of Mary you know that He is The Word of God.

As for who first taught me The Trinity. The first time I heard of it was by a minister of the Church I had just joined back when I became a Christian. I have had time to go around it, to study the scriptures. To be perfectly honest, I am not 100% sure of the Trinity. I do, however, believe that Jesus is God. There is only one God, and Jesus was God come down to Earth as an infant and as "The Son of Man". I have evidence that Jesus is God, but very little for The Trinity.
Now I have said it. I have admitted for the first time what I truly believe.

Thanks for that Christine. Not many are prepared to say "I'm not 100% sure about . . ."

I must admit too that there have been times when my understanding of things have been absolutely shaken. And on a number of theological & doctrinal issues I have had to do an about face. Although not brought up to believe in things like the trinity, when I was born again there was much I accepted as 'gospel' merely because 'christians' were teaching it.

And there came a time when I couldn't reconcile what some of these people were saying and what they were doing. At that time there was born within me an indescribable yearning and passion for truth. And as the light of Christ has shone on the things around me, that which has been untrue has been exposed. So all I can say is, the Spirit of truth will guide you into all truth.

May I offer you one passage to consider. I have posted it previously and also again latterly on another thread.

It is taken from 1 Corinthians 15. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

 

[Sothenes]

It is taken from 1 Corinthians 15. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Are you sure? I can answer that.

 

[mutzrein]

It is taken from 1 Corinthians 15. For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

Are you sure? I can answer that.

It wasn't a question. It's a quote from scripture.

 

[SpiritualSon]

The Lord made His Human Divine from the Divine Soul in Himself called the Father, is evident from many passages of the Word, of which those shall be here adduced which confirm:
That this was done by successive steps:
Jesus grew and waxed strong in spirit and in wisdom, and the grace of God was upon Him (Luke 2:40-52).
Jesus increased in wisdom, in age, and in grace with God and men (verse 52).

That the Divine had operated through the Human, as the soul does through the body: The internal of Jesus had operated through His external.
The Son can do nothing from Himself, but what He seeth the Father doing (John 5:19). The Body can not do without the Soul, which was the Father.

I do nothing of Myself, but as My Father hath taught Me, I speak these things and He that hath sent Me is with Me He hath not left Me alone John 8:28-29; John 5:30. The Body can not doing anything without the direction of the Soul, which is the Father.

I have not spoken of Myself, but the Father who sent Me, He hath given Me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak (John 12:49). Jesus was sent by His own Divine Love called the Father. The Father was always with the Son, as the Soul is with the Body. When Jesus said to the Disciples that He will sent the Holy Spirit from the Father, meant from His Divine Love, which is His Divine Soul called the Father.

The words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself, but the Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works (John 14:10).
I am not alone, because the Father is with Me (John 16:32). When Jesus had said this the Disciples saw one Person, not two.

That the Divine and Human operated unanimously:
What things soever the Father doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise (John 5:19).
As the Father raiseth up the dead and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom He will (John 5:21).
As the Father hath life in Himself so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself (John 5:26).
Now they have known that all things which Thou hast given Me, are of Thee (John 17:7).

The Divine in Jesus, which is the Father, was united to His Human, called the Sod of God:
If ye had known Me ye would have known My Father also; and ye have seen Him. He said to Philip, who desired to see the Father, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip? He that hath seen Me, hath seen the Father. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? Believe Me, that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me (John 14:7-11). The Father in Jesus was His Divine Love, was meant by His Soul, and the His Divine Soul is the Father.

If I do not the works of My Father, believe Me not; but if I do, believe the works; that ye may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father (John 10:37-38). Jesus did all good works from His Soul, which is from the Father.

That they all may be one, as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee (John 17:21).

At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father (John 14:20).

Harry :fadein:

 

[Bubba]

1 Corinthians 15:23-28
“Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.†(NIV)

“Those who do not believe in the Deity of Christ interpret this passage as denying the deity of Christ. However, that is an interpretation imposed from outside; it is not what Scripture says. The key point for the anti-deity people is that the Son becomes "subject" to the Father--as if that also implied inferiority or being of a lower rank than the Father. But it does not. According to Luke 2:51, Jesus as a young man "continued subject" to Joseph and Mary. This did not imply that he was of a lower life form than his human parents. No, the three of them were equal in their humanity, but Jesus respected the headship arrangement within the family, an arrangement whereby children are subject to parents and the husband is head of his wife. So, if Jesus could be subject to his parents yet equal to them in his humanity, he could likewise be subject to his heavenly Father while equal in deity.â€Â
David Reed
*He used Jehovah Witnesses, I changed the wording to “anti-deity peopleââ¬Â Bubba