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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Jesus came back.. and Destroyed Jerusalem
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Where does the Bible say this? Hebrews 10 says clearly the sacrifce ended because of Jesus - would you concur?RND said:
The whole world is currently in disarray! Haven't you been watching the news?
1798 and 1929.
1Kings 18:18-40
Again, that sounds like something I'd see in a Kurt Cameron movie or read in the "fiction" of Tim LaHaye. There's nothing in the Bible regarding such fantasy.
(The) I agree that Daniel 9:27 is Satan...not our Savior. Consider what "overspreading" could mean:
The overspreading could be a "wing of, a quarter of, the pinnacle of"....the temple. To me it just means the part of the temple the desolator rules over. We know he does for....
The desolator has had a "wing" of the temple since the first one was constructed.....
- Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
- [list:3o8a522f]Overspreading ~ #3671 from 3670, to project laterally, i.e. probl. to withdraw: - be removed, an edge or extremity: - spec. (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed-clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: - bird, border, corner, end, feather, flying, other, overspreading, quarters, skirt, sort, uttermost part, wing.
The overspreading could be a "wing of, a quarter of, the pinnacle of"....the temple. To me it just means the part of the temple the desolator rules over. We know he does for....
- Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh Him up into the holy city, and setteth Him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[list:3o8a522f]Pinnacle ~ #4419 a winglet, extremity (top corner)
The desolator has had a "wing" of the temple since the first one was constructed.....
- 1 Kings 3:1 And Solomon made affinity with Pharaoh king of Egypt, and took Pharaoh's daughter, and brought her into the city of David, until he had made an end of building his own house, and the house of the LORD, and the wall of Jerusalem round about.
1 Kings 7:8 And his house where he dwelt had another court within the porch, which was of the like work. Solomon made also an house for Pharaoh's daughter, whom he had taken to wife, like unto this porch.
Couple of questions: How did Satan "in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease"? Doesn't Hebrews 10 attribute this to Jesus?whirlwind said:
Also, out of curiosity what was the reason for the death of Jesus? Wasn't for the "the overspreading of abominations" of Israel? Did Jesus declare that "he shall make it desolate"?
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
RND said:
Hebrews tells us He doesn't want burnt offerings...He wants the sacrifice of our love.
- Mark 12:33 And to love Him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
That is why idolatry is #1 on the list. Many misled are/will mistakenly worship the fake. Those doing that no longer love Him...the true Him.
The "midst of the week," I believe, is the time he himself arrives. He is the fake pretending to be Jesus. Because of his deception, when the world will believe him, the sacrifice and oblation to Jesus will cease and will be transferred to him, the pretender to the throne.
And...so it is. His house is filled with idolatry. But, those of us that say, "Blessed is He That cometh in the name of the LORD," [Matthew 23:39] find salvation. We..."come out of her."
- Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
The OT tells us that too. I'm referring to Hebrews 10 specifically.whirlwind said:
Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Shema prayer, Deuteronomy 6.
It says "cut off." It doesn't mention anything about arriving. What does "cut off" mean to you?
Hebrews 10 states the sacrifice and oblation has already ended.
And...so it is.[/quote:z57q0yiz] So then Daniel 9:27 can't be future since even you agree it has already happened.
We come out of Babylon.....code for the false doctrines taught in the Christian churches today.
Who is "her"? The woman that rides the beast? Decked in Gold and purple and scarlet? That's the false church. Alive today.
RND said:
On the contrary ,,,,,,,,,satan is at work in the churches,,,,
Just like Christ is not literally here,,,but HIs spirit (Holy SPIRIT) is here....satan's evil spirit/spirits are also here,,,but satan is not here de facto.....
Satan does not need to be here,,,,,,, to as you say,,,, "work in the churches"
But he needs to be here to stand in Jerusalem.....
RND said:
I understand RND. You're correct in that His sacrifice covered sins...forever, but there is still a sacrifice He wants from us....
Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Hebrews 13:15 By Him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Shema prayer, Deuteronomy 6. [/quote:13r48gu6]
Thank you. I didn't know that and have made a notation in my Bible.
It says "cut off." It doesn't mention anything about arriving. What does "cut off" mean to you?[/quote:13r48gu6]
The Messiah is "cut off, but not for Himself." The people of the prince, Satan, are here now working..."destroying the city and the sanctuary," which to me simply means God's children. They destroy with deception. Many of us are Jerusalem and some of us are Zion, the city and sanctuary.
If we fall for the deception then He is "cut off..but not for Himself."
Hebrews 10 states the sacrifice and oblation has already ended. [/quote:13r48gu6]
The sacrifice for sins has ended...not the sacrifice of our love for Him.
And...so it is.[/quote:13r48gu6] So then Daniel 9:27 can't be future since even you agree it has already happened.
We come out of Babylon.....code for the false doctrines taught in the Christian churches today.[/quote:13r48gu6]
Yes. :yes
Who is "her"? The woman that rides the beast? Decked in Gold and purple and scarlet? That's the false church. Alive today.[/quote:13r48gu6]
Again....yes. :yes
RND said:
I think you are being answered,,,,,you might not agree which is cool,,,but you are being answered.....
Come on bro,,,, The 1st beast rising out of sea is a political system,,,you are correct,,,,,,
Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
But im not talking about the 1st beast,,,im talking about the second
Rev. 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
SO now that your on the right page lets continue.......
Dont tell me 2 horns represent power here,,,,because God says these 2 horns represent a lamb....
Rev. 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
SEE that???? it clearly says 2 horns like a "LAMB" ,,,,,, does "horns" mean power also????? yes your right it does,,,but the what we must understand is that this second beast (satan) is coming up looking like the lamb slain before the foundation of the world (Christ)
Revelation 5:12
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
DO you see?????? Christ is the Lamb,,,,the reason this second beast has 2 horns like a lamb,,,is because is looks like Christ.....
LOL NONONONONONONO
THe beast speaks like a dragon because he is a dragon,.,,,did you not know one of satan names is the dragon.....
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev. 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
The sacrifice of animals is no longer necessary, that's the point of Daniel 9:27, and that occurred with the death of Christ. Therefore Satan doesn't cause the sacrifice to cease.whirlwind said:
Shema prayer, Deuteronomy 6. [/quote:2b494gdl]
Thank you. I didn't know that and have made a notation in my Bible. [/quote:2b494gdl] You're welcome.
Cut off means to die. He died not for Himself but for others - you and me.
This is an OT concept. Read Psalms 51. Since the sacrifice for sins is over then I'm assuming you believe that Satan has nothing to do with ending these animal sacrifices then?
I've never suggested Daniel 9:27 has anything to do with the future.
Satan was here in the garden,,,,,is he here right now ????I believe not....
Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
and dont try to give me some speech,,, pal ,,,about how a day is 1000 years,,,,,because look at the next verse....
Rev. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death
when satan is kicked out we will be able to overcome him by the blood of the Lamb (hay there that word "Lamb" again......
Well that means satan would have to be kicked out after Christ died,,,,we cant use the blood of Christ to overcome until Christ sheds that blood.....
SO if you wanna say satan has been kicked out,,,cool,,,,but you have to say hes was kicked out after the Christ death,,,,or you make void Revelation 12:11
Hey
yup there is no temple in Jerusalem,,,yup ,,we are the temple,,,,but theres still going to be a literal temple,,,,,now whether satan will get here after its built,,,or he will help construct it,, I dont know yet 
,,,,but he will stand in Jerusalem (defacto)
Rev. 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
and dont try to give me some speech,,, pal ,,,about how a day is 1000 years,,,,,because look at the next verse....
Rev. 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death
when satan is kicked out we will be able to overcome him by the blood of the Lamb (hay there that word "Lamb" again......
Well that means satan would have to be kicked out after Christ died,,,,we cant use the blood of Christ to overcome until Christ sheds that blood.....
SO if you wanna say satan has been kicked out,,,cool,,,,but you have to say hes was kicked out after the Christ death,,,,or you make void Revelation 12:11
Hey
yup there is no temple in Jerusalem,,,yup ,,we are the temple,,,,but theres still going to be a literal temple,,,,,now whether satan will get here after its built,,,or he will help construct it,, I dont know yet ,,,,but he will stand in Jerusalem (defacto)You're probably right.(THE) said:
The first beast rising out of the sea is indeed a political conglomeration. The "sea" represents a highly populated area.
Right. A beast rises out of a relatively unpopulated area.
Rev. 13:11 doesn't refer to Satan. It's a "political" beast.
It says this beast has two horns "like" a lamb. As in similar too, not that they represent a lamb.
Yeah, "like." Similar to.
If a beast is represented as a political system in verse 13:1 why is a beast not a political system in verse 11?
I'm glad you are beginning to come around and see that this beast has horns that represent "power."
Yeah, it is "like" Christ as in similar to.
LOL NONONONONONONO[/quote:1bahdlqk] Nations don't speak through their leaders and laws?
"Like" as in similar too. This is a "beast" - a political system that has horns "like" a lamb, but is speaks "like" a dragon.
Would you agree that this nation for years has wrapped itself in the banner of Christ but it's laws and leaders speak like the devil? If so then you can see this verse is not speaking about Satan but the United States.
Verse 10 is "past tense" not future tense. "is cast down" means it has happened already.(THE) said:
They were symbolically using the blood of Christ long before He actually came right? Are you suggesting that Satan wasn't involved in the many things that happened in the OT?
Nope. Jesus was the lamb slain "before" the foundation of the world. This means the plan of salvation was put into place before the world was even made.
There is? Why would that be necessary if Jesus' body is the Temple?Hey
Well maybe you should use scripture and try to find the ending of the Kurt Cameron movie!,now whether satan will get here after its built,,,or he will help construct it,, I dont know yet
Oh, I don't doubt that but it won't be in a rebuilt Jewish temple.
RND said:
I see what you are saying, I don't agree but I see. It did occur with the crucifixion but that was just one type of sacrifice...blood sacrifices. Daniel doesn't specify the types of sacrifices but writes...."he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." That is inclusive of all sacrifices. If it was Christ then the sacrifices He does desire of us wouldn't have been written after His death.
This is an OT concept. Read Psalms 51. Since the sacrifice for sins is over then I'm assuming you believe that Satan has nothing to do with ending these animal sacrifices then?[/quote:35k9turt]
No I don't attribute it to Satan. God instructed us on animal sacrifices and Christ fulfilled it. He became the Passover Lamb. The other sacrifices were a shadow leading to it.
I've never suggested Daniel 9:27 has anything to do with the future.[/quote:35k9turt]
I didn't write that.
researcher
Member
Read the prayer Daniel made in the beginning of the chapter. His prayer was for forgiveness of the Jews, and the people of Israel who had rebelled, and for the actual city of Jerusalem which was in ruins at the time. The angel was sent with an answer to Daniel's prayer concerning his people and the city.
Dan 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans;
Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
Dan 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
Dan 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Dan 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
Dan 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
Dan 9:7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
Dan 9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
Dan 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
Dan 9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
Dan 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Dan 9:12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.
Dan 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.
Dan 9:14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.
Dan 9:15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.
Dan 9:16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.
Dan 9:17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.
Dan 9:18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.
Dan 9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.
Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
And the angel said
Dan 9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
Dan 9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
The rest of the chapter has to do with the nation of Israel, the literal city of Jerusalem, and the actual temple that was in the city. Lol
Daniel prayed for his people and his city, and God answered him as to what would happen to his people, and to the city and temple. The answered prayer has nothing to do with the church. Daniel wasn't asking for forgiveness for the church. He asked for the people of Israel then living. :yes
Could you give a verse or two that states the sacrifice and oblation of Dan. 9:27 is collectively all types of sacrifices? Frankly, it doesn't seem to make much sense. Animal sacrifices are no longer necessary, they ended with the death of Christ. Where does it state that "spiritual" sacrifices must also end?whirlwind said:
But you did! You stated clearly that Daniel 9:27 is referring to Satan! Are you changing your position?
Exactly! So since Christ came other sacrifices pointing to the coming Messiah are/were unnecessary! Right? So doesn't that indicate those sacrifices and oblations ended when Christ died?
You didn't, my bad.