Jesus' Exclusivism

[Mike]

I don't beleive that God will condemn babies/children to hell. Babies are not able to say, "Look I need to be baptized so baptize me or I'll go to hell." Child who is not yet able to reason will not be condemned to hell ether. If they can't understand what being a Christian or what baptism really means, its not their fault. What about the mentally challenged? Do you think they will be condemned to hell because they are not able, through no fault of their own, will be condemded to hell? I don't. God is a God of mercy, he's not blind. He will grant his mercy on those who are infants, or unable to understand. To think otherwise would be saying that God is a malevolent oger. If you can't understand or you never heard of me, oh well, off to eternal fire for you. We all know that is not God.

Kevin, maybe I misstated myself, you misunderstood me or both. I said I can understand some churches waiting until kids have the ability to make a decision for themselves to be baptized. I don't think that sounds like someone who believes, in your words "they will be condemned to hell because they are not able, through no fault of their own..." I try not to let denominational differences stand in the way of a united Christian Church. At the same time, I have got some people very upset be sticking the the Gospel and saying Mormons, JW's and other non-biblical based religions who reject the salvation issues of Christianity are not part of His Church. I even managed to ruffle someone's feathers by stating that God does not sentence us to hell, but that we sentence ourselves by rejecting His offer to everyone for Life.
You used your first post to introduce yourself to us, I welcomed you, and then you used your 2nd post to say I was sending babies to hell. Wow!

Seriously, I probably didn't make my point clear enough. All good now?

 

[MMarc]

Those who never herd of Jesus will resurrect at the second resurrection at the end of the Millenial reign and be judged according to their works.

As for babies, because they do not know right from wrong they are taken to Heaven, in the eyes of God they are without blemish, just like aborted children.

 

[happyjoy]

Those who never herd of Jesus will resurrect at the second resurrection at the end of the Millenial reign and be judged according to their works.

If someone is judged by works they won't make it to heaven as none are worthy.

As for babies, because they do not know right from wrong they are taken to Heaven, in the eyes of God they are without blemish, just like aborted children.

Babies carry the burden of original sin from conception on. They are not blemish free.

Also, it does not matter that they don't know right from wrong. Adam and Eve did not know right from wrong when they ate the apple yet God still sentenced them to death. So God does not care if one is innocent and ignorant.

 

[jasoncran]

before one takes action to speak or do a sinful thing the thought must occur and the dwelling thierin, i could be seconds or days.

satan probably set them up and they didnt ask the lord about this. he let them sin. instead of warning them. he wanted us and them to come to him and let him be the source of our freedom from sin. God isnt evil.

happyjoy, what you ask is this, i want to go to heaven, but i wont surrender my will. i want it my way and not yours. you want the Lord to do it all for you and you ride the train for free and retain that free will.
that isnt possible you must choose him or the devil. he will honor the choice you make. i say this in love and not judgmentally.

we must all be bondservants to the lord so that we can be free, i'm still learning to stop being willful and be meek.

 

[happyjoy]

before one takes action to speak or do a sinful thing the thought must occur and the dwelling thierin, i could be seconds or days.

satan probably set them up and they didnt ask the lord about this. he let them sin. instead of warning them. he wanted us and them to come to him and let him be the source of our freedom from sin. God isnt evil.

happyjoy, what you ask is this, i want to go to heaven, but i wont surrender my will. i want it my way and not yours. you want the Lord to do it all for you and you ride the train for free and retain that free will.

we must all be bondservants to the lord so that we can be free, i'm still learning to stop being willful and be meek.

So I only get free will by giving up my free will? Satan set them up? I don't have to give up free will, and I am not worried. I don't have faith in a malevolent God. If you do maybe that is what you need to believe.

 

[jasoncran]

you will serve someone.

you accept the evolunary theory that states that we have no free will we are only programmed by instincts to act for the most part. i watch a show on human sexuality on this and that is what they said. word for word. men and woman look for the best potential mate that will keep the strongest genes sent to next generation.

it's so strong that we will commit adultery to do this. hmmm

i guess that rape by that thinking is ok.

i think i will submit my will to the lord for he has set me free from death. or jail and bad behavior.

i was on my way to either a permante male and male relationship and time in prison or both.

 

[happyjoy]

you accept the evolunary theory that states that we have no free will we are only programmed by instincts to act for the most part. i watch a show on human sexuality on this and that is what they said. word for word. men and woman look for the best potential mate that will keep the strongest genes sent to next generation.

i guess that rape by that thinking is ok.

The theory says that the feeling of love that is overwhelming is indeed based on biology.
Also, I am sure that some part of what we find attractive in a mate is also based on biology. We are animals after all.

As for Rape being ok because we are animals. No it isn't. That's just silly. The fact that we understand the biology of attraction doesn't mean Rape, or child molestation or whatever, is morally ok. It used to be, but our civilization has come to the realization that Rape is wrong.

i think i will submit my will to the lord for he has set me free from death. or jail and bad behavior.

i was on my way to either a permante male and male relationship and time in prison or both.

If you need to believe in a malevolent vengeful God to be a good person that's just the way it is. I don't need that to be a good person. I am not going to Rape anyone either way.

I think our relationship with Christ is personal people tend to find that Jesus and the bible tells people what they need to ear, but some misunderstand and take it for what they want to hear.

 

[freeway]

I don't think babies or young children go to hell if they should die early. I think the bible leans toward a age of accountably. I'm a little lazy right now, will look up verses later and post, now that I've said that you'll probably hold me to it... time to get busy...

 

[jasoncran]

really i listened to that and besure,note they said that BIOLOGICAL attraction is so strong that most men cant control and must act on it, bull

i dont have act on it.

if you really want to believe that you are an animal then be my guest, after we can do what we want then, wheres the morals then. my dog has no morals nor indeed every will.

 

[happyjoy]

really i listened to that and besure,note they said that BIOLOGICAL attraction is so strong that most men cant control and must act on it, bull

i dont have act on it.

if you really want to believe that you are an animal then be my guest, after we can do what we want then, wheres the morals then. my dog has no morals nor indeed every will.

People are taught morals. Children are selfish, demanding, little monsters if we don't teach them morals. They need to be trained.

 

[handy]

For those of us to whom the gospel has been given, we are judged according to how we receive what God freely gives us. But, for those that never in their entire lives, ever heard of God, then I believe that Jesus will judge them according to what they knew.

In that case surely all spreading the word and missionary activity should cease immediately. If it's better to never hear than to hear and not accept, you'll be giving people a far better chance by leaving them without hearing your message. Missionaries may be causing the damnation of people who would otherwise have been saved!

No, not at all!! For we are prone to sin. If left in our own ignorance, with our sinful nature, all will eventually sin and then one stand's condemned at the Throne. How very much better it is to have knowledge of the Gospel, that Christ died for our sin and that we can have forgiveness through Him.

As I stated in my post, the part that wasn't quoted, there is HOPE for those who have never heard the gospel. A hope that is suggested in that sometimes, as in Acts 17, God will overlook times of ignorance and a hope that is suggested in Romans 1 that one can come to know God via His invisible attributes, and a hope that is suggested when we are clearly told that the Lord desires that all be saved.

Hope is a good thing. Knowledge of God's grace and forgiveness is much better, so we most certainly do need to heed Christ's call to go forth throughout the world.

I don't think babies or young children go to hell if they should die early. I think the bible leans toward a age of accountably. I'm a little lazy right now, will look up verses later and post, now that I've said that you'll probably hold me to it... time to get busy...

I always look to Romans 7:8 where Paul stated, "I was once alive, apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died." I fully believe, and will do so unless someone can convince me otherwise, that the only logical explanation for Paul saying , "I was once alive apart from the Law" is that we are born spiritually alive and spiritually die once we understand the commandments and willfully break them.

We do have a sinful nature and are born in sin, however it is not our sinful nature that condemns us, but our deeds. When we study Revelations 20 regarding Judgment Day, we see that we are judged according to our actions.

 

[Mike]

For those of us to whom the gospel has been given, we are judged according to how we receive what God freely gives us. But, for those that never in their entire lives, ever heard of God, then I believe that Jesus will judge them according to what they knew.

In that case surely all spreading the word and missionary activity should cease immediately. If it's better to never hear than to hear and not accept, you'll be giving people a far better chance by leaving them without hearing your message. Missionaries may be causing the damnation of people who would otherwise have been saved!

No, not at all!! For we are prone to sin. If left in our own ignorance, with our sinful nature, all will eventually sin and then one stand's condemned at the Throne. How very much better it is to have knowledge of the Gospel, that Christ died for our sin and that we can have forgiveness through Him.

I would just add that logical bob and others ignore the present gifts of faith in addition to eternity. When someone accepts Christ and invites Him into his or her heart, they begin living eternity immediately. There is peace and hope where there wasn't before. I'm not going to argue the validity of our faith right here, I'm just giving a reason why evangelism shouldn't stop if you accept it. :biglol It's a gift that gives now and later!

 

[Rev Kevin]

I don't beleive that God will condemn babies/children to hell. Babies are not able to say, "Look I need to be baptized so baptize me or I'll go to hell." Child who is not yet able to reason will not be condemned to hell ether. If they can't understand what being a Christian or what baptism really means, its not their fault. What about the mentally challenged? Do you think they will be condemned to hell because they are not able, through no fault of their own, will be condemded to hell? I don't. God is a God of mercy, he's not blind. He will grant his mercy on those who are infants, or unable to understand. To think otherwise would be saying that God is a malevolent oger. If you can't understand or you never heard of me, oh well, off to eternal fire for you. We all know that is not God.

Kevin, maybe I misstated myself, you misunderstood me or both. I said I can understand some churches waiting until kids have the ability to make a decision for themselves to be baptized. I don't think that sounds like someone who believes, in your words "they will be condemned to hell because they are not able, through no fault of their own..." I try not to let denominational differences stand in the way of a united Christian Church. At the same time, I have got some people very upset be sticking the the Gospel and saying Mormons, JW's and other non-biblical based religions who reject the salvation issues of Christianity are not part of His Church. I even managed to ruffle someone's feathers by stating that God does not sentence us to hell, but that we sentence ourselves by rejecting His offer to everyone for Life.
You used your first post to introduce yourself to us, I welcomed you, and then you used your 2nd post to say I was sending babies to hell. Wow!

Seriously, I probably didn't make my point clear enough. All good now?

If you are going to use a quote from me, use the whole thing because by quoting a portion of what I posted makes it seem like I am say something I'm not. I asked a question and here it is again. (question) "What about the mentally challenged? (part you did not use) Do you think (part you used) they will be condemned to hell because they are not able, through no fault of their own, (part you didn't use) will be condemned to hell? I don't. The way you put it and here it is,(missing part) "they will be condemned to hell, because they are not able, through no fault of their own..."(missing part) See the difference in the meaning of what I asked and what only used.
Now to answer your question on, some church's wait for children to make the decision to be baptized is you are the only one who can accept Christ, no one can make that decision or accept Christ for you. As a infant you are not able to make that decision. When you accept Christ you are to ask God to forgive you of you sins and a infant can't do that. Now a infant or the mentally challenged are not able to make them kind of decisions and if they were to pass on, I believe that God will show them mercy and not comdemn them to hell for something that is not their fault.
Now make no mistake I was not saying that you are sending children to hell. I don't know where you go that from my post.

 

[happyjoy]

I would just add that logical bob and others ignore the present gifts of faith in addition to eternity. When someone accepts Christ and invites Him into his or her heart, they begin living eternity immediately. There is peace and hope where there wasn't before. I'm not going to argue the validity of our faith right here, I'm just giving a reason why evangelism shouldn't stop if you accept it. :biglol It's a gift that gives now and later!

So if you begin living eternity immediately that means you can not lose your salvation once you have it? What if you decide to become gay after getting saved?

 

[jasoncran]

I would just add that logical bob and others ignore the present gifts of faith in addition to eternity. When someone accepts Christ and invites Him into his or her heart, they begin living eternity immediately. There is peace and hope where there wasn't before. I'm not going to argue the validity of our faith right here, I'm just giving a reason why evangelism shouldn't stop if you accept it. :biglol It's a gift that gives now and later!

So if you begin living eternity immediately that means you can not lose your salvation once you have it? What if you decide to become gay after getting saved?

who does one decide to become gay? if you already are it was already there. i was bi and and did just what you said, and needed to repent. i am not sure if was truly repentent when i first gave my life to christ in a prayer, but rather more repentant after my repentence of the bi lifestyle.

i acted on the bi thing only once and that was after my supposed repentance.if you are truly saved and fall into that sin. and are confronted and you know that you are in sin. you will repent if not its not likely that you are saved imho.

but that is a subjective thing. i can only speak from my expericience. i doubt that i was saved by the first prayer. though i knew full well what i was doing was sin!!!!!!!

 

[happyjoy]

I would just add that logical bob and others ignore the present gifts of faith in addition to eternity. When someone accepts Christ and invites Him into his or her heart, they begin living eternity immediately. There is peace and hope where there wasn't before. I'm not going to argue the validity of our faith right here, I'm just giving a reason why evangelism shouldn't stop if you accept it. :biglol It's a gift that gives now and later!

So if you begin living eternity immediately that means you can not lose your salvation once you have it? What if you decide to become gay after getting saved?

who does one decide to become gay? if you already are it was already there. i was bi and and did just what you said, and needed to repent. i am not sure if was truly repentent when i first gave my life to christ in a prayer, but rather more repentant after my repentence of the bi lifestyle.

i acted on the bi thing only once and that was after my supposed repentance.if you are truly saved and fall into that sin. and are confronted and you know that you are in sin. you will repent if not its not likely that you are saved imho.

but that is a subjective thing. i can only speak from my expericience. i doubt that i was saved by the first prayer. though i knew full well what i was doing was sin!!!!!!!

I was just trying to clarify. What was mean by begin living eternity. That phrase sounds like once saved always saved, or once saved sin ceases.

 

[jasoncran]

i dont see it that way unless you have truly repented, though we can all fall into sin. but that is another topic as thats another billionth eternal security debate. :crazy

 

[freeway]

As Jason has touched on, If you are a "Christian" and you sin against the spirit, you know it, you feel dirty, lost, unwanted, failure. To speak from personal experience, when ever I sin "and at times it seem like alot" whenever I do I just feel "bad inside" and it keeps eating at me until I ask Jesus to forgive me. He does, and sadly sometimes I do the same thing again. So if I where to loose my Salvation then I think I would not care when I sin.. make since? :o