Jesus Is God: Part 1

[Butch5]

One and one equals one?f

 

[Cooper]

If you mean One divine being, two persons (three with the Holy Spirit), having coexisted for eternity past, then yes.

Yes, that is what I meant.

 

[Cooper]

One and one equals one?f

It is the omnipresence that makes it look like two, one in heaven and one on earth, but to the omnipresent God heaven and earth are just one universe. So, one God.

 

[Butch5]

It is the omnipresence that makes it look like two, one in heaven and one on earth, but to the omnipresent God heaven and earth are just one universe. So, one God.

What's that Commoon core Christianity?

 

[Butch5]

The Israelites were the first to have God's word. Did the Pharisees, Scribes, and Saducees believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV 1900): Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Next God's word went to Jesus and the apostles. Did they believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Mark 12:29 (KJV 1900): And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

John 17:3 (KJV 1900): And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 Corinthians 8:5–6 (KJV 1900): For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 6:15–16 (KJV 1900): Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:

Then God's word went to the early church. Did they believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Nicene creed 325
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;

Some 60 years later, did they believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Nicene creed 381
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen;

and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of god, begotten of the Father before all ages, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father, through whom all things came to be;

Wow, here we are about 350 years after Jesus and still no one believes this three in one God concept. Where in the world did it come from?

Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.

Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.

Now this is the catholic faith:

That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.

What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.

The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.

The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.

And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.

Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.

Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.

Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.

Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.

The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.

Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.

Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.

So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.

Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.

But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.

Now this is the true faith:

That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.

He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.

Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.

He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.

Well look at that! There it is. It dates around 500 AD. We found it! It's interesting too that they said if you don't believe us you can't be saved. So, they had it right and all the Christians before them, including the apostles, had it wrong, right? NOT!

Notice too that they believed that the Son was begotten of the Father before all ages. The Athanasian Creed veers sharply away from the Christian faith as can easily be seen. The Trinity doctrine comes from the Catholic Church. By the time this Creed was written the Catholic Church had a corner on the market.

 

[Cooper]

What's that Commoon core Christianity?

Yes. One God in heaven and on earth. That's it in a nutshell. Then people go and make it complicated.

 

[Randy]

The short answer is—Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. There is only one God and to separate the two natures, the early church depicted God on earth as the Son, and God in heaven as the Father, but there is only One God over all. It sounds like they are two, but in reality, Father and Son are One divine being. God had to be like us, to take away the sins of man. Such is the love of God for us.

What do you think the reason is that Jesus calls the Father His God and the only true God other than "truth"?

 

[232 Ben Yissachar]

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said ὁ κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου

ὁ The ( Is a definite article. It limits the meaning of a noun to one particular thing)
κύριός Lord
μου of me
καὶ and
ὁ The ( Is a definite article. It limits the meaning of a noun to one particular thing)
θεός God
μου of me

And how does YESHUA respond to Thomas calling Him, The Lord and The God

John 20:29
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen Me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

John 8:56​

Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.

​

	Genesis 15​
1​	After these things The Word of YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
2​	And Abram said, Adonai YHWH, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3​	And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4​	And, behold, The Word of YHWH came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5​	And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6​	And he believed in YHWH; and He counted it to him for righteousness.

John 1:1​	In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with Elohim, and the Word was EL.
2​	The same was in the beginning with Elohim.
3​	All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

Then YESHUA says Before Abraham was Ego Eimi I AM, which really sent the deity deniers into a tizzy, wanting to kill Him, they understood what He was saying.

Exodus 3:14 in the septuagint reads

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῗς τοῗς υἱοῗς Ισραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς

ἐγώ I
εἰμι AM
ὁ The
ὤν Being

John 8:58 εἶπεν αὐτοῖς ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι ἐγὼ εἰμί

γενέσθαι - came into existence

John 8:24 εἶπον οὖν ὑμῖν ὅτι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν· ἐὰν γὰρ μὴ πιστεύσητε ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι ἀποθανεῖσθε ἐν ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν

ὅτι - That
ἀποθανεῖσθε - you will die

Philippians 2:6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ
ὃς Who
ἐν In
μορφῇ Form - Morphe
θεοῦ God - Theos
ὑπάρχων Being (Present Active Participle) Continually existing

Philippians 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Phllippians 2:7
But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

John 5:18
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill Him, because He not only had broken the Sabbath, but said also that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

The word translated as "had broken" λύω, lyō in Greek, It means to loose any person (or thing) tied or fastened

YESHUA Loosed the tradition - (something not in the written Torah) First by Healing the man on the Sabbath, then He permitted-told the man that was healed to carry his mat on the Sabbath Day. Had YESHUA "Broken" as in not Kept the Sabbath, He would not have been sinless. Luke 6:9

This is John's explanation of why they sought to kill Him, And what it meant when YESHUA said that Elohim was His Father,
He was Claiming to be Equal with God, to be of the same Nature as the Father.

 

[Free]

The Israelites were the first to have God's word. Did the Pharisees, Scribes, and Saducees believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Did the Pharisees, Scribes, and Saducees believe Jesus was the Son of God or the Son of Man? Nope!

Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV 1900): Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

Next God's word went to Jesus and the apostles. Did they believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Mark 12:29 (KJV 1900): And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Deut 6:4 does not speak of the nature of God; it is only a statement of monotheism, which the doctrine of the Trinity affirms. In the Hebrew, the Shema actually leaves room for God being triune.

John 17:3 (KJV 1900): And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

I've already given a plausible explanation as to Jesus' statement. Suffice it to say that it doesn't preclude Jesus from being God. Indeed, your own position necessitates that Jesus is God.

1 Corinthians 8:5–6 (KJV 1900): For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Interesting verse, isn't it? What does it look like to you, in verse 5

1Co 8:4 Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.”
1Co 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (ESV)

Deu 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Quite possibly Paul had the Shema in mind and expanded on it with understanding of Jesus as God. There are two problems for you here:

1. If the use of "God" is exclusive to the Father, then it follows that the use of "Lord" is exclusive to Jesus.
2. If "from whom are all things and for whom we exist," speaks of the eternal preexistence of the Father, then it follows that "through whom are all things and through whom we exist" speaks of the eternal preexistence of the Son.

1 Timothy 6:15–16 (KJV 1900): Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see:

First, we have already seen that according to your position, only the Son is Lord to the exclusion of the Father. Second:

Rev 17:14 "They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” (ESV)

Then God's word went to the early church. Did they believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Nicene creed 325
We believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
God from God,
Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made;

Some 60 years later, did they believe in a three in one God? Nope!

Nicene creed 381
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen;

and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of god, begotten of the Father before all ages, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one substance with the Father, through whom all things came to be;

Wow, here we are about 350 years after Jesus and still no one believes this three in one God concept. Where in the world did it come from?

You stopped your bolding too soon. Notice that the Son is "God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God." It shows that they believed the Son was God. A curious thing that you seem to think otherwise by quoting it for support. Why it doesn't speak of three in one should be obvious--the whole point was to make a statement of who Jesus was as the Son of God.

Well look at that! There it is. It dates around 500 AD. We found it! It's interesting too that they said if you don't believe us you can't be saved. So, they had it right and all the Christians before them, including the apostles, had it wrong, right? NOT!

And, yet, even in quotes you provided of the Nicene Creed, they believed Jesus was God. There is no getting around it and that was a belief held since at least the early second century.

Notice too that they believed that the Son was begotten of the Father before all ages. The Athanasian Creed veers sharply away from the Christian faith as can easily be seen.

Yes, and they believed he was "true God of true God," because that is what the Bible states. This is where your reasoning has failed to take into account the very things you claim. If Jesus proceeds from the Father and was begotten, not made, then he is of the same substance or nature as the Father. If that is the case, then it follows that he has existed for eternity past. If he hasn't existed for eternity past, then he cannot be of the same nature, since that nature is eternal.

The Trinity doctrine comes from the Catholic Church. By the time this Creed was written the Catholic Church had a corner on the market.

The Trinity follows from accepting the deity of Jesus, based on what the Bible states about the Holy Spirit. That it took centuries to formulate the specifics is irrelevant as to the truth of the matter.

 

[Edward]

What do you think the reason is that Jesus calls the Father His God and the only true God other than "truth"?

That's a good question. I think Jesus calls the Father the one true God and His God and our God, because it is His Father, His Dad. The Father is the Patriarch of all creation. It was His idea, and He let the son & Family carry out the plan.

As above so below. The Dad's the boss.

 

[Edward]

You know what, scripture says the Spirit hovered over the waters, and waters cover the earth so the Holy Spirit is everywhere. Is that right? ok.

Now, God breathed into man and man became a living soul. The breath of God is the Spirit of life, and delivers life to our body. When our body dies the Spirit of life rerurns unto God. Think about that for a moment...

Breath. Breathe. Hey, maybe the Holy Spirit is the Wind? Or rides the wind. because if the Spirit is everywhere and we can't see from where the wind comes from or where it goes to, so it is with everyone born of the Spirit?

And we know very well that if we stop breathing, we're dead real quick. Man, that's a lot of similarities there between the Spirit of God and us breathing. I know! The next time I feel a nice breeze in my face, I'll just Praise the Lord for His life giving Spirit.

And maybe wonder if He just came and bear witness with my spirit? I wonder what they talked about?

 

[Randy]

That's a good question. I think Jesus calls the Father the one true God and His God and our God, because it is His Father, His Dad. The Father is the Patriarch of all creation. It was His idea, and He let the son & Family carry out the plan.

As above so below. The Dad's the boss.

Isn't Paul doing the same?

yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Butch5]

That's a good question. I think Jesus calls the Father the one true God and His God and our God, because it is His Father, His Dad. The Father is the Patriarch of all creation. It was His idea, and He let the son & Family carry out the plan.

As above so below. The Dad's the boss.

You miss the point. They believed in one God, the Father. They didn't believe in a three in one God like the Athanasian Creed presents.

Also, I didn't srop my bolding to soon. Where it says God from God, it uses the Greek word ek which means to come out of. It literally says God out of God. That's why they said begotten before all worlds. I just wasn't making that argument at the moment.

 

[Cooper]

What do you think the reason is that Jesus calls the Father His God and the only true God other than "truth"?

That is the man or the flesh speaking. He was speaking on behalf of us all.

 

[Randy]

That is the man or the flesh speaking. He was speaking on behalf of us all.

I see it as truth.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

 

[Cooper]

I see it as truth.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

Lovely. And do you know what? This is a quote from the Old Testament about Jesus. I do not know how anyone who knows their Bible can have doubts about Christ's deity.

Your Throne, O God, Is Forever
Psa 45:1 To the leader: according to Lilies. Of the Korahites. A Maskil. A love song. My heart overflows with a goodly theme; I address my verses to the king; my tongue is like the pen of a ready scribe.
Psa 45:2 You are the most handsome of men; grace is poured upon your lips; therefore God has blessed you forever.
Psa 45:3 Gird your sword on your thigh, O mighty one, in your glory and majesty.
Psa 45:4 In your majesty ride on victoriously for the cause of truth and to defend the right; let your right hand teach you dread deeds.
Psa 45:5 Your arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; the peoples fall under you.
Psa 45:6 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;
Psa 45:7 you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;
Psa 45:8 your robes are all fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia. From ivory palaces stringed instruments make you glad;
Psa 45:9 daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor; at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.
Psa 45:10 Hear, O daughter, consider and incline your ear; forget your people and your father's house,
Psa 45:11 and the king will desire your beauty. Since he is your lord, bow to him;
Psa 45:12 the people of Tyre will seek your favor with gifts, the richest of the people
Psa 45:13 with all kinds of wealth. The princess is decked in her chamber with gold-woven robes;
Psa 45:14 in many-colored robes she is led to the king; behind her the virgins, her companions, follow.
Psa 45:15 With joy and gladness they are led along as they enter the palace of the king.
Psa 45:16 In the place of ancestors you, O king, shall have sons; you will make them princes in all the earth.
Psa 45:17 I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you forever and ever.

 

[Randy]

Lovely. And do you know what? This is a quote from the Old Testament about Jesus. I do not know how anyone who knows their Bible can have doubts about Christ's deity.

Your Throne, O God, Is Forever
Psa 45:1 To the leader: according to Lilies. Of the Korahites. A Maskil. A love song. My heart overflows with a goodly theme; I address my verses to the king; my tongue is like the pen of a ready scribe.
Psa 45:2 You are the most handsome of men; grace is poured upon your lips; therefore God has blessed you forever.
Psa 45:3 Gird your sword on your thigh, O mighty one, in your glory and majesty.
Psa 45:4 In your majesty ride on victoriously for the cause of truth and to defend the right; let your right hand teach you dread deeds.
Psa 45:5 Your arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; the peoples fall under you.
Psa 45:6 Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. Your royal scepter is a scepter of equity;
Psa 45:7 you love righteousness and hate wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions;
Psa 45:8 your robes are all fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia. From ivory palaces stringed instruments make you glad;
Psa 45:9 daughters of kings are among your ladies of honor; at your right hand stands the queen in gold of Ophir.
Psa 45:10 Hear, O daughter, consider and incline your ear; forget your people and your father's house,
Psa 45:11 and the king will desire your beauty. Since he is your lord, bow to him;
Psa 45:12 the people of Tyre will seek your favor with gifts, the richest of the people
Psa 45:13 with all kinds of wealth. The princess is decked in her chamber with gold-woven robes;
Psa 45:14 in many-colored robes she is led to the king; behind her the virgins, her companions, follow.
Psa 45:15 With joy and gladness they are led along as they enter the palace of the king.
Psa 45:16 In the place of ancestors you, O king, shall have sons; you will make them princes in all the earth.
Psa 45:17 I will cause your name to be celebrated in all generations; therefore the peoples will praise you forever and ever.

Col 1:19
Jesus is all that the Father is.

But the Father is His God. You have the testimony of the Father and Jesus to that TRUTH.

Who gave Jesus His throne?

The Father has not received from any other being.

Jesus has a place on His Fathers throne just as He testified to that truth.

 

[Cooper]

Col 1:19
Jesus is all that the Father is.

But the Father is His God. You have the testimony of the Father and Jesus to that TRUTH.

Who gave Jesus His throne?

The Father has not received from any other being.

Jesus has a place on His Fathers throne just as He testified to that truth.

Only while Jesus was on earth.
Notice as well that no mortal can possess those things.

 

[Randy]

Only while Jesus was on earth.
Notice as well that no mortal can possess those things.

Jesus uses TRUTH.
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.

 

[Randy]

Only while Jesus was on earth.
Notice as well that no mortal can possess those things.

You keep stating Jesus was God in the flesh but you answer as Jesus ceased being God when He became the Son of Man.

Which did you read?
When I became the Son of Man the Father became the only true God.

the only true God

When Jesus returns in His Glory as the Son of Man on the last Day will He be God then?