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Jesus Is God: Part 1

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Butch5 said:
Here's some more food for thought. John said, the word was God. John also said, no one has seen God at any time. How do we reconcile these statements? The one who said the Word was God also said no one has seen God. We know people saw Jesus.
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Though I believe Jesus. (His spirit), is the first being the Father called into existence at some point in history before the world began I think John is stating before Jesus no man had seen God but the one who was in the Fathers presence in the beginning has made the Father known to us. That one with the Father in the beginning John calls God. So in Jesus they do see the Father for we know from Jesus that the Father living in Him was doing HIS work. Phillip asked Jesus to show them the Father.

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father

John 1:18
So before Jesus - No one, (mankind), has seen the Father except Jesus who was in the Fathers presence.
Jesus who was in the Fathers presence before the world began has made Him know to us

1John 1-4
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

John 17:6
I have shown you to the disciples you gave me out of the world. They were yours. You gave them to me. And they have obeyed your word.
 
Cooper said:
Or to put it another way, "All the fulness of the Godhead is in Jesus." (Colossians 1:19)
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Yes from the will of another - but what I tried to show you is that it is the Fathers Deity in fullness and that He was pleased to dwell in Jesus. That gifting was given to Jesus alone. (first and last). That in the gifting Jesus is all that the Father is. (God in that context) That in that gifting Jesus and the Father are one, There is only one true Deity, (The Father)
The Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact imprint of Gods being. He has always been the Son. (Not God in that context)

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

So is Jesus God?

He never dies. -The eternal life in Him is the Father's Deity not His own . He is forever.
Yes, He is all that the Father is. (Col 1:19)
No, He has always been the Son. (His Spirit was formed by the Father at some point in history before the world began as in before the angels of God, before Genesis(creation), before all things. His spirit is not deity. Again it is the Fathers Deity in fullness that dwells in Him with His spirit.

And In him, through Him, by Him, and for Him the Father created all things.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word
 
Randy said:
Though I believe Jesus. (His spirit), is the first being the Father called into existence at some point in history before the world began I think John is stating before Jesus no man had seen God but the one who was in the Fathers presence in the beginning has made the Father known to us. That one with the Father in the beginning John calls God. So in Jesus they do see the Father for we know from Jesus that the Father living in Him was doing HIS work. Phillip asked Jesus to show them the Father.

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father

John 1:18
So before Jesus - No one, (mankind), has seen the Father except Jesus who was in the Fathers presence.
Jesus who was in the Fathers presence before the world began has made Him know to us

1John 1-4
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.

John 17:6
I have shown you to the disciples you gave me out of the world. They were yours. You gave them to me. And they have obeyed your word.
Click to expand...
I agree with a lot of you say here, but my question is more along the line of John's thinking. He said the Word was God, yet also said no one has seen God. Then, as you pointed out; He speaks of both seeing and touching Christ. In what sense then is Jesus God When John says no one has seen God?
 
Here's some more food for thought. John said, 'in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God'.

Why did John say the Word was God instead of saying the Word IS God?
 
Butch5 said:
I agree with a lot of you say here, but my question is more along the line of John's thinking. He said the Word was God, yet also said no one has seen God. Then, as you pointed out; He speaks of both seeing and touching Christ. In what sense then is Jesus God When John says no one has seen God?
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John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Well the testimony is about Jesus. I think Johns point was that nobody before came from heaven as a eyewitness of His Majesty. Jesus was that eyewitness and made the Father known to them.

I believe John learned from Jesus in regard to knowing God without seeing God,

Jesus answered, “Don’t you know me, Philip? I have been among you such a long time! Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. So how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

But Jesus give this testimony in that regard.
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
 
Randy said:
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

Well the testimony is about Jesus. I think Johns point was that nobody before came from heaven as a eyewitness of His Majesty. Jesus was that eyewitness and made the Father known to them.

I believe John learned from Jesus in regard to knowing God without seeing God,

Jesus answered, “Don’t you know me, Philip? I have been among you such a long time! Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. So how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

But Jesus give this testimony in that regard.
Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Click to expand...
You don't get it, do you. In the beginning, there was an invisible tadpole, and although it will never happen again the tadpole became a frog, and they lived as one for evermore.
 
Cooper said:
You don't get it, do you. In the beginning, there was an invisible tadpole, and although it will never happen again the tadpole became a frog, and they lived as one for evermore.
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Yes I do
And this is eternal life: that men can know you, the only true God, and that men can know Jesus Christ, the One you sent
 
Cooper said:
And when you have answered that tell me how many Gods there are.
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I don't recall you asking me that.
But again my belief
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I do recall asking you at least twice without a direct answer so I'll ask again,

Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was God how then do you believe in one God for He stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?
 
Randy said:
I don't recall you asking me that.
But again my belief
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

I do recall asking you at least twice without a direct answer so I'll ask again,

Jesus calls the Father the only true God. If He always was and always was God how then do you believe in one God for He stated on the cross, "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"?
Click to expand...
You don't understand the Oneness of God.
 
Randy said:
Perhaps you should post how Jesus taught He and the Father are one.
Click to expand...

Randy said:
Perhaps you should post how Jesus taught He and the Father are one.
Click to expand...
All I am going to say is that those who deny Jesus deny God.

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10 KJV)
 
Cooper said:
All I am going to say is that those who deny Jesus deny God.

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10 KJV)
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“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me

Is Jesus God?
He never dies.
Yes, He is all that the Father is.
No, He has always been the Son.

The fullness is the "Fathers Deity" and it was gifted not formed. Col 1:19
The Fathers Deity is the ONLY God. Jesus the Son is the radiance of Gods glory and the exact imprint of Gods being. The image of the invisible God. For in Him it did please the fullness to dwell.

So the name GOD gave to His firstborn was Mighty God which is superior to His other children (the angels of God)

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

In context Jesus is God for in Him the Fathers Deity dwells without limit. (fullness) But the Father is the ONLY true God.

Hence the distinction made by Paul
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Carried out through his letters.
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Cooper said:
All I am going to say is that those who deny Jesus deny God.

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (John 14:10 KJV)
Click to expand...

And we are in Christ, and Christ is in us. Created in His image. The word became flesh.

And they found the entire Hebrew alphabet with the human genome. It's all in our DNA. There's even the name of God spelled out in our DNA too. And the scripture that taks about a three stranded cord is not broken? DNA is a two stranded cord. Soul and flesh. Most people serve the flesh with their soul, but we are to be led of the Spirit, which adds the third strand to us that will not be broken and then when the soul serves the spirit, then the flesh has no choice but to obey.

That's just how the spiritual realm works. spirits can join together and become one. So there is three Gods, but one God. It's like a Family or even the military, with rank. Dad's the big boss, but boy you better listen to the oldest Son like dad said too!

I tik it's a scripture someplace. There is one body, one spirit, something like that.

Found it.

Ephesians 4:4-6
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.../

That spells out the truth right there. And Jesus didin't lie...there is one true God. His God and our God. The Father, Abba. And we have one true God because we are in Christ and Christ is in the Father. And the Father said...Do whatever He tells you to do, this is my Son in whom I am well pleased...!!!

So God the Father left His Sone in charge. Gave Him the earth and everything into His hands in fact. What's hard to understand? When we're saved, we are given the power to become the sons of God. So there's rank in Heaven and prolly two classes of people? The saved, and the sons of of God (Oh! Three! The bride too!). So maybe the sons (family (and Bride) get to live with the Father and Jesus in His mansion, which is prolly meaning the New Jerusalem city? And maybe the saved will live outside the walls of the city, but the trees of life are everywhere out there and the river of life which scripture describes flowing outside...? (I better stop here, I'm rambling, lol)
 
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