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Jesus Is God: Part 1

Butch5 said:
As I expected, again, you didn't answer my question.
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You've asked me no question(s). Instead, what you've been doing is writing nonsense, in your broken English, and then miscalling your nonsense, "questions" and "my question".

If you want to ask me a question, be my guest: if you do, I'll answer it. But understand that just because you continue to meaninglessly, reflexively string some words together and stick a question mark onto the end of them, I'm not about to play along with you at your game of make-believe, pretending that your nonsense—your non-questions—are questions.

Twice, I've asked you: "Is the Father Lord? Yes or No?"
You: <NO ANSWER, STILL>

Why do you refuse to answer "Yes"? Why do you refuse to declare that the Father is Lord?
 
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Paul E. Michael said:
You've asked me no question(s). Instead, what you've been doing is writing nonsense, in your broken English, and then miscalling your nonsense, "questions" and "my question".

If you want to ask me a question, be my guest: if you do, I'll answer it. But understand that just because you continue to meaninglessly, reflexively string some words together and stick a question mark onto the end of them, I'm not about to play along with you at your game of make-believe, pretending that your nonsense—your non-questions—are questions.

Twice, I've asked you: "Is the Father Lord? Yes or No?"
You: <NO ANSWER, STILL>
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Once again, you rattle on. You do know that the ad hominem is a sure sign you've lost the argument, Right? And, yet again, you haven't answered the question. You can deny it all you want but it's there for everyone to read. I know why you won't answer. Because your position is indefensible. That's why we get these diatribes and rattling on. You have no defense for you position.

But, let's talk about the language since you seem to be stuck on pagans gods.

Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,
(Gen. 18:1-2 NKJ)

Here Moses writes that the LORD appeared to Abraham, then he says three "men" were standing there. Was the pre-incarnate Christ a man? The Bible calls Him both LORD and man. He hadn't been born to Mary yet. So which is it? According to your argument He must have been a man because Moses wrote that He was a man.

16 Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. (Gen. 18:16 NKJ)

Then the men rose and looked toward Sodom. Again, they are called men. As the story continues we find this.

Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. (Gen. 19:1 NKJ)

Now Moses calls the two "men," that went on ahead of the LORD, angels. So, what were they? Were they men or angels?

You see, if we understand language this is easily understood. However, if use the method you've based your argument on, well, It's a roll of the dice. Just pick whichever you want. I could give you many more examples of this if you'd like. It's all through the Bible. If we use your line or reasoning, that because Isaiah called a statue a god, therefore it a god, then you have to say the pre-incarnate Christ a man.
 
Butch5 said:
Then the LORD appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day.
2 So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground,

(Gen. 18:1-2 NKJ)
Here Moses writes that the LORD appeared to Abraham, then he says three "men" were standing there.
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Does he say three "men" were standing there, or, instead, does he say three men were standing there? I don't see your sneer quotes in the Scripture text, do you?

Which does Moses write?

  1. "[Behold], three men were standing by him..."
  2. "[Behold], three non-men were standing by him..."
Butch5 said:
Was the pre-incarnate Christ a man?
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Yes.
Butch5 said:
The Bible calls Him both LORD and man.
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Good eye!
Butch5 said:
He hadn't been born to Mary yet.
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You're on a roll.
Butch5 said:
So which is it? According to your argument He must have been a man because Moses wrote that He was a man.
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You're on fire, tonight! You da "man"! And, yes, indeed, He must have been a man because Moses wrote that He was a man. Why do you prefer to contradict Scripture against believing it?
Butch5 said:
16 Then the men rose from there and looked toward Sodom, and Abraham went with them to send them on the way. (Gen. 18:16 NKJ)

Then the men rose and looked toward Sodom. Again, they are called men. As the story continues we find this.

Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. (Gen. 19:1 NKJ)

Now Moses calls the two "men," that went on ahead of the LORD, angels. So, what were they? Were they men or angels?
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They were men and they were angels.
Butch5 said:
You see, if we understand language this is easily understood.
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IOW, you don't understand language.
Butch5 said:
However, if use the method you've based your argument on, well, It's a roll of the dice. Just pick whichever you want. I could give you many more examples of this if you'd like. It's all through the Bible. If we use your line or reasoning, that because Isaiah called a statue a god, therefore it [sic] a god, then you have to say the pre-incarnate Christ [sic] a man.
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Since Isaiah said that certain statues are gods, therefore, those statues he said are gods, are gods.
Since Moses said the pre-incarnate Christ is a man, the pre-incarnate Christ is a man.

Q. Why do you prefer to contradict Scripture against believing it?

A. Here's why you prefer to contradict Scripture: Since being a god does not necessitate being personal, being a god does not necessitate being unipersonal, nor does being a god exclude being tripersonal. This fact does not help you sell your extra-Biblical, false doctrine of unitarianism.
 
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Paul E. Michael said:
Does he say three "men" were standing there, or, instead, does he say three men were standing there? I don't see your sneer quotes in the Scripture text, do you?

Which does Moses write?

  1. "[Behold], three men were standing by him..."
  2. "[Behold], three non-men were standing by him..."

Yes.

Good eye!

You're on a roll.

You're on fire, tonight! You da "man"! And, yes, indeed, He must have been a man because Moses wrote that He was a man. Why do you prefer to contradict Scripture against believing it?

They were men and they were angels.

IOW, you don't understand language.

Since Isaiah said that certain statues are gods, therefore, those statues he said are gods, are gods.
Since Moses said the pre-incarnate Christ is a man, the pre-incarnate Christ is a man.

Q. Why do you prefer to contradict Scripture against believing it?

A. Here's why you prefer to contradict Scripture: Since being a god does not necessitate being personal, being a god does not necessitate being unipersonal, nor does being a god exclude being tripersonal. This fact does not help you sell your unitarianism.
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You ask more questions and yet haven't answered the first.

Tripersonal? Please do explain. This should be good. How exactly is one tripersonal?

Wait.....getting the popcorn... carry on.
 
@strawman.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? (1 Sam. 28:11-16 KJV)

So, was Samuel a god? If so what kind of god was he?
 
Butch5 said:
@strawman.

11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
16 Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the LORD is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy? (1 Sam. 28:11-16 KJV)

So, was Samuel a god?
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Not that I'm aware of. Why do you ask? Oh...nevermind. I see why you say that: you apparently revere a witch's word at least as much as you revere God's word.
 
Butch5 said:
Exactly! You can't defend what you said. Checkmate!
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I asked you: "How can one be unipersonal? One anything. But, particularly a god. Please explain a unipersonal god."
You: <NO ANSWER>

Something can be tripersonal by being three persons: that's how something can be tripersonal. Thus, a god can be tripersonal by being three persons: that's how a god can be tripersonal. It's not difficult, see. It's similar to how something can be three-legged: by being three legs. It's similar to how something can be two-armed: by being two arms. It's similar to how something can be five-roomed: by being five rooms. It's very elementary.

Butch5 said:
Checkmate!
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Ah, so the fact you've just demonstrated—that you revere the word of a witch over the word of the LORD—makes you a winner in your own eyes, eh?
 
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Butch5 said:
So, was Samuel a god?
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Like I said: not that I'm aware of.

And, I asked you: "Why do you ask?"
You: <NO ANSWER>

Does the word of the LORD declare that Samuel was a god? If you think so, please quote/cite the passage you're thinking of. He certainly does not declare that in the passage you already handed me. So what (if any) point do you imagine you were making by handing me it? You should learn from Saul's error, and stop consulting the witch of Endor. Besides, even she did not say Samuel is a god, so your broaching of the passage is irrelevant, at best.
 
Dykstra said:
The trinity is a false doctrine of which there is no doubt. There is God the Father and God the Son and the Holy Spirit is the power and presence of them both. The HS is not a third god as was initiated by the catholics its just another false doctrine of man.
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I don't know if it's false. However My search has brought me to other people's thoughts.

Here is one
The Holyghost is the power of the resurrected body of Christ-

While the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.


In my google search years ago I think I might have came across 2 good articles. One would probably take awhile to find but the other I will share.

My discussion are not necessarily to argue but to get to the truth excommunicating things wrong through and holding or adding to what is right and proven.
 
Hidden In Him said:
1. There is no question that Jesus “existed” before the world began.
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Semantics, perhaps!
Both "Jesus" and "the Son of God" did NOT exist before the Incarnation!
The Word (God) came down from heaven and became flesh-human-Jesus.
Jesus was ONLY called "the Son of God" because
God the Holy Spirit "played the role of Jesus' father".
 
John 1:3
All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:

Isaiah 44:24
Thus saith YHWH, thy Redeemer, and He that formed thee from the womb, I am YHWH that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens Alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by Myself;

|

Genesis 15: 1
After these things The Word of YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Psalms 107:20

He sent His Word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

Isaiah 48:16

Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now Adonai YHWH, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.

In Isaiah the Me that is speaking is YHWH, saying that He is Sent by Adonai YHWH and His Spirit.

Father Son and Holy Spirit

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the unique one of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
Dougcho said:
Semantics, perhaps!
Both "Jesus" and "the Son of God" did NOT exist before the Incarnation!
The Word (God) came down from heaven and became flesh-human-Jesus.
Jesus was ONLY called "the Son of God" because
God the Holy Spirit "played the role of Jesus' father".
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What about b4 Abraham was "I Am" doesnt that show He existed b4 He came to earth?
 
Corinth77777 said:
I don't know if it's false. However My search has brought me to other people's thoughts.

Here is one
The Holyghost is the power of the resurrected body of Christ-

While the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God.
Click to expand...
"Holy Ghost" is just the KJV for "Holy Spirit." They are one and the same.
 
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