Jesus Is God: Part 1

[Randy]

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
Hebrews 1:8-10

It was the Son, God the Son who created the heavens and the earth.

God created through, by and for Jesus all things.
The very same writer.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
I have reasoned just as God spoke to us in these lasts days by His Son as in the Father living in Jesus doing His work. God created by His Son as in the Deity gifted to dwell in the Son doing His work. It's clear to me the eternal life found in the Son is the Fathers Deity not Jesus's. Col 1:19 Jesus is the begotten God or the only like to like begotten Son of the Father. The Father is the only true unbegotten God. It was by the Son or the one living in the Son that created.
So I agree in part
Begotten of the Father before all things but not made. The Jesus I believe and know is Gods Firstborn, His spirit, and has always been the Son and in Him dwells all the fullness of the one and only living God the Father. His God and Father as we read. Jesus has made us a kingdom of priests to serve His God and Father as we read.

It was the Spirit of Christ that spoke through the mouth of the prophets.

Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter

The Spirit acting in the persona of the Son. He speaks only what He hears not on His own.
As shown as well it was the Father who spoke through the prophets. And Jesus Himself stated in was the Father living in Him doing "His" work. The message given was not His own but from the one who sent Him.
In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophetsat many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son.

The Son always expresses the will of the Father by His word.

The Father living in Him teaches Him what to state and how to state it. The Son though given sovereign authority being a Son exists within the framework of His Fathers will. The Father does whatever He pleases.

The WORD of God expressed the will of the Father through the mouth of the Old Testament prophets.

already addressed. Jesus is the word of the FATHER. From the Father through the Son in all things. Even the gift of God, the Spirit sent in Jesus's name.

The burden of the word of the LORD against Israel. Thus says the LORD, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

ONENESS as I see.
If we become faithless He will remain faithful for God can not disown Himself. I'm not God yet it states "Himself"
The Father in the Son they are one.
The Son in us we are one.

We are also the seed of Abraham and heirs according to the promise if Christ is in Us.

 

[Corinth77777]

The Spirit that was with them before Jesus was crucified and would be in them is a body?

The Holy Ghost is said to be the power of the glorified body of Jesus "

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Just noting Randy, I believe there is a difference between the terms Holyghost and Holy Spirit.

Exactly how I am learning myself


Look at this translation:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Of course nkjv of the "Holy Ghost"


And most likely why its Holy Ghost..is because Jesus has resurrected.


John 14: 11-14 – 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

 

[JLB]

God created through, by and for Jesus all things.

Jesus the Son created the heavens and the earth.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. Colossians 1:16

He did so according to His Father’s will and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Godhead works together in this way in the creation of the heavens and the earth.


Jesus is God, God the Son; the only begotten Son of God.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


The Creator of the heavens and the earth became flesh so He could pay the price on the cross for our sins. To redeem us from destruction.


That’s good news!



JLB

 

[Corinth77777]

All power was given to Him

The Holy Ghost is said to be the power of the glorified body of Jesus "

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Just noting Randy, I believe there is a difference between the terms Holyghost and Holy Spirit.

Exactly how I am learning myself


Look at this translation:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Of course nkjv of the "Holy Ghost"


And most likely why its Holy Ghost..is because Jesus has resurrected.


John 14: 11-14 – 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28

Where? Heaven and on earth

Another word for authority is power

 

[Free]

The Holy Ghost is said to be the power of the glorified body of Jesus "

But, it doesn't. Too many verses refute such an idea:

Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
...
Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. (KJV)

How does it make sense that Mary "was found with child of the [power of the glorified body of Jesus]," if Jesus hadn't even been born yet, never mind hadn't died, been resurrected, and returned to the Father?


Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (KJV)

Why baptize in the name "of the Son, and of the [power of the glorified body of Jesus]"? How does that make sense when Jesus is the Son?


Mar 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. (KJV)

How could David have spoken by the "power of the glorified body of Jesus," if Jesus wasn't to be born for a very long time yet?


Luk 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
Luk 1:14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
Luk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. (KJV)

How could John "be filled with the [power of the glorified body of Jesus]," which was necessary for his ministry, if he was born before Jesus?


Luk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
...
Luk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, (KJV)

How could either of them be "filled with the [power of the glorified body of Jesus]" if Jesus hadn't been born yet?


Luk 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Luk 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. (ESV)

How could the "power of the glorified body of Jesus" be upon Zacharias or reveal anything to him if Jesus hadn't been born yet?


Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. (KJV)

If Jesus had not yet died, been resurrected, and ascended to the Father, how could "the [power of the glorified body of Jesus]," which is future self, descend "in a bodily shape like a dove upon him"?


Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, (KJV)

How could Jesus be "full of the [power of the glorified body of himself]," which alone makes no sense, but also he hasn't been crucified and therefore not yet glorified?


Etc.

But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.


Just noting Randy, I believe there is a difference between the terms Holyghost and Holy Spirit.

Exactly how I am learning myself


Look at this translation:
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Of course nkjv of the "Holy Ghost"


And most likely why its Holy Ghost..is because Jesus has resurrected.


John 14: 11-14 – 11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. 12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Please, put some thought into this. There is no difference between Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit. You again say that "most likely why its Holy Ghost..is because Jesus has resurrected," yet every verse I provided above shows that either the Holy Ghost was around before Jesus was born or before he even died. You likely will not find one legitimate, reputable scholar who will agree with your position, but only random internet people who don't know how to properly study or interpret Scripture.

 

[Randy]

Jesus the Son created the heavens and the earth.

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. Colossians 1:16

You left this part off. Does not through Him and FOR Him speak to you of another in that creation?
Col 1:16
...all things have been created through him and for him

He did so according to His Father’s will and by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Godhead works together in this way in the creation of the heavens and the earth.


Jesus is God, God the Son; the only begotten Son of God.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


The Creator of the heavens and the earth became flesh so He could pay the price on the cross for our sins. To redeem us from destruction.


That’s good news!



JLB

The fullness of Deity that was pleased by the will of another to dwell in Christ created by Him and through Him.
I don't exclude the Father in the act of creation why do you? God created by His Son. Just as He spoke to us by His Son.

John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
1Corth 8:5-7
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Randy]

All power was given to Him

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28

Where? Heaven and on earth

Another word for authority is power

Not in my dictionary.
It is clear to all that Jesus sat down with the Father on the Fathers throne. No one here that I am aware of denies that Jesus has the sovereign authority of God. God has placed all things in Jesus's hands.

John 3:35
The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.

It doesn't state the Father exalted Him it states God exalted Him (singular)
Phil 2
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

It doesn't state doesn't include the Father Himself it states does not include God Himself (singular)
1 Corth 15:27
For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

The Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of the sovereign Lord not the Ghost of Jesus. That Spirit that proceeds from the Father is poured out through Jesus in Jesus name. In a believer that eternal Spirit, (singular), conveys the persona of Christ. In this manner both Father and Son make their home with those in the faith.

 

[Corinth77777]

Sadly people speak words that I've never suggested and take away words ive never added. I dont think no one knows it all or they'd be God.

I'm here to learn not growl at people...
And we must present our thoughts and test them against the word of God.

This is what I've gathered so far

1. Jesus and God shared Glory

2. When the word was made flesh. It is said He was made a little lower than.

3. he must have not had the same Glory in the flesh if He asked for it to be restored.

4. He raised in bodily form and goes back to the Father.

5 There obviously was power before He came into the earth

But was there power for us to conquer the world, flesh, and the devil?

If there wasn't and now there was then what Happened.
6. After He is given all power, Which by they can make disciples immersing them in the presence of God.
...
as for you last comment on authority = power
Im looking at translation not your ductionary

 

[Corinth77777]

All power was given to Him

And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28

Where? Heaven and on earth

Another word for authority is power

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Yes there definitely is a difference between the terms Holyghost and Holy Spirit

I like how one writer said the manifestation

The scripture says they were filled with the Holy ghost- (my adds- power of the resurrected body of Christ)



and then it says as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Reject the difference if you like
But it is not given until after His resurrection.

It all comes from God through christ
Jesus is said to be the wisdom and power of God

"The Bible verse 1 Cor states that Jesus Christ is the "power of God" and the "wisdom of God". The apostle Paul wrote this in his letters to the church at Corinth to explain the meaning of Jesus' death on the cross. "

 

[Free]

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Yes there definitely is a difference between the terms Holyghost and Holy Spirit

I like how one writer said the manifestation

The scripture says they were filled with the Holy ghost- (my adds- power of the resurrected body of Christ)



and then it says as the Spirit gave them utterance.

There is definitely not a difference. You’re proof-texting and so ignoring context:

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. (KJV)

Jesus said “the promise of the Father” is the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And, Peter agrees in 2:33. However, Peter also says it is a fulfillment of the prophecy in Joel 2 where twice God says that he will “pour out my Spirit.”

Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
…
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. (KJV)

Irrefutable proof that the Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit, is the Holy Ghost. They are one and the same.

My best guess—because no one knows—is that the KJV translators used “Spirit” to refer to “the Spirit of God,” “the Spirit of the Lord,” etc., but used “Holy Ghost” as the name of the Spirit. This would explain why “holy Spirit” appears only three times, although it doesn’t explain why “Holy Spirit” appears once (Luke 11:13).

I strongly suggest ditching the significantly outdated KJV, as it’s actually leading you into error, and getting a better, more accurate version like the ESV.

Reject the difference if you like
But it is not given until after His resurrection.

What isn’t “given until after His resurrection”? I gave several passages which show that “Holy Ghost” absolutely cannot mean “the power of the glorified body of Jesus” because they are all pre-resurrection and even pre-birth and pre-conception references. Why have you not yet addressed those verses, which prove you to be in error, and simply continue to give your unsupported opinion as though it were fact?

You say you’re here to learn, but you’re not, not really.

 

[leroy]

Fully God and fully man.....

Does the believer also have this designation?

Since we are partakers of the divine nature 2Pet 1:4
Since we have the Son living in us 1John 5:11,12
Since we have the Holy Spirit and the Father living in us. Rom. 8:11 John 14:23

Since God in you is fully God And you were born fully man. Are you not fully God and fully man.

If God is our life as new creatures and it is He who dwells in you to both will and do of His good pleasure.
No we who have God are not claiming anything but that He must increase and we must decrease.
Since God is invisible Col.1:15. When we become invisible in our own eyes and become as nothing then He can be everything. It will be His words and His works that flow from our life.

 

[Free]

Fully God and fully man.....

Does the believer also have this designation?

Since we are partakers of the divine nature 2Pet 1:4
Since we have the Son living in us 1John 5:11,12
Since we have the Holy Spirit and the Father living in us. Rom. 8:11 John 14:23

Since God in you is fully God And you were born fully man. Are you not fully God and fully man.

If God is our life as new creatures and it is He who dwells in you to both will and do of His good pleasure.
No we who have God are not claiming anything but that He must increase and we must decrease.
Since God is invisible Col.1:15. When we become invisible in our own eyes and become as nothing then He can be everything. It will be His words and His works that flow from our life.

Only Jesus is fully God and full man, because he is literally God in human flesh, two natures--God and human--in one person (John 1:1-3, 14; Phil 2:6-8). We are only fully human because we are one nature in one person.

 

[leroy]

Only Jesus is fully God and full man, because he is literally God in human flesh, two natures--God and human--in one person (John 1:1-3, 14; Phil 2:6-8). We are only fully human because we are one nature in one person.

2Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." Just as He was a partaker of flesh and blood, we are partakers of the divine nature. He is fully divine we are fully human. Does it not follow therefore that we have two natures?
Question: What is nature? Is it 'some kind of thing' ?
That divine or God nature is not something that comes off a shelf in heaven, it comes attached to a Being.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1John 5:11-12

If the eternal life that the believer has is the result of the Son in us, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Phil. 2:13 Then we are not "only human" We are divinity and humanity combined. He has bound us to His self with ties that cannot be broken. We are the bride of Christ and as such married to God.
This is the gift to a fallen race where we are raised up and delivered from our previous captive.
This is why I have deeply considered that Jesus was a human, of the seed of David according to the flesh, that was possessed and led by the Son through life without sin, that He might bring a death to the fallen nature of Adam on the cross. Creating a new race of beings who are born of God, out of the tomb, as new creatures. No longer subject to the effects of Satan's sophistry.
This should cause great joy knowing that we are truly saved by His grace.

 

[Free]

2Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." Just as He was a partaker of flesh and blood, we are partakers of the divine nature. He is fully divine we are fully human. Does it not follow therefore that we have two natures?

No. We are "partakers" in the sense of being "granted . . . all things that pertain to life and godliness" (2 Pet. 1:3), that is, salvation. The believer's body will be transformed and glorified, like Christ's, but we do not actually partake of the divine essence. God, by nature, is uncreated and we are created. Jesus is actual deity, as the Son of God, but also truly human.

Question: What is nature? Is it 'some kind of thing' ?
That divine or God nature is not something that comes off a shelf in heaven, it comes attached to a Being.

Exactly. The one and only uncreated, necessary Being.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1John 5:11-12

If the eternal life that the believer has is the result of the Son in us, "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." Phil. 2:13 Then we are not "only human" We are divinity and humanity combined.

No, we are not divinity; we cannot be. We are only human. Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit, but that does not make us divine also. There is a vast difference between being indwelt by the Spirit, as we are, and the divine nature joining with human nature in the person of Jesus.

This is why I have deeply considered that Jesus was a human, of the seed of David according to the flesh, that was possessed and led by the Son

This is not a correct way of thinking about it. Jesus was not just a human who was "possess and led by the Son," he actually and truly was the Son in human flesh. This is very close to the ancient heresy of Ebionism.

 

[leroy]

No. We are "partakers" in the sense of being "granted . . . all things that pertain to life and godliness" (2 Pet. 1:3), that is, salvation. The believer's body will be transformed and glorified, like Christ's, but we do not actually partake of the divine essence. God, by nature, is uncreated and we are created. Jesus is actual deity, as the Son of God, but also truly human.

The sense I get from what you have written in reply is that you think I am saying that "we become God" No, that is not what I am saying.
The Father is Spirit, the Son is Spirit and the Spirit is Spirit. We were created for habitation (temples, tabernacles, earthen vessels) You believe that the Holy Spirit can live in us, is that correct?
According to what I read, the Son also lives in us. "Christ in you the hope of glory" John 14 says that all three will dwell within. 1John 5 11,12 says clearly the Son is our source of eternal life. God lives within human flesh, this is our source of redemption. I am not divine but He is and He is my life. He is my all in all. I am nothing.

Exactly. The one and only uncreated, necessary Being.

If He is fully divine and fully human that human nature, his physical body had to be created. there was no physical human at creation. Scripture says he is of the seed of David according to the flesh, that flesh came out of Mary's body. "

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; (Not some other kind of flesh) that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb. 2:14
"the same" was referring to the flesh, the flesh of Mary and the flesh of David and by that the flesh of Adam.
Also 'His' human body was was subject to death. You cannot kill God. In him was a life that is eternal. This is a life that only God has. See 1Tim.6:16
It seems so clear to see that Jesus was a member of the human family and was chosen to show what it means to live by the power of God in continual obedience to all that was asked of him. The same is available to every believer. He showed us the way to lay down our life and do only the Father's will. The Son of God who lived in Mary's son was the living connection to the Father. All this is available to each of us.

No, we are not divinity; we cannot be. We are only human. Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit, but that does not make us divine also. There is a vast difference between being indwelt by the Spirit, as we are, and the divine nature joining with human nature in the person of Jesus.

"Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit" I have heard this so many times and it seems a trick to make John 3:16 of non-effect. It is like saying "it is the spirit in us, not really the Son" I agree we are not divine but the Son is and He lives in me. If I claim to be divine, I am blasphemous. But it is only divinity who can overcome Satan. He is my victory.

This is not a correct way of thinking about it. Jesus was not just a human who was "possess and led by the Son," he actually and truly was the Son in human flesh. This is very close to the ancient heresy of Ebionism.

Possessing human flesh or in human flesh? is there a difference? It's not Ebionism, it's the plan of redemption, Christ in you the hope of glory. You are dead and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life... He that has the Son has life...

 

[JLB]

You left this part off. Does not through Him and FOR Him speak to you of another in that creation?
Col 1:16
...all things have been created through him and for him

Of course.

Jesus expresses the will of God the Father as the Word.

The Word is brought forth into being by the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1


Nevertheless the word plainly says -

• For by Him all things were created

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16


Do you agree that all things were created by God?

 

[Free]

The sense I get from what you have written in reply is that you think I am saying that "we become God" No, that is not what I am saying.
The Father is Spirit, the Son is Spirit and the Spirit is Spirit. We were created for habitation (temples, tabernacles, earthen vessels) You believe that the Holy Spirit can live in us, is that correct?
According to what I read, the Son also lives in us. "Christ in you the hope of glory" John 14 says that all three will dwell within. 1John 5 11,12 says clearly the Son is our source of eternal life. God lives within human flesh, this is our source of redemption. I am not divine but He is and He is my life. He is my all in all. I am nothing.

If He is fully divine and fully human that human nature, his physical body had to be created. there was no physical human at creation. Scripture says he is of the seed of David according to the flesh, that flesh came out of Mary's body. "

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb. 2:14
"the same" was referring to the flesh, the flesh of Mary and the flesh of David and by that the flesh of Adam.
Also this human body was was subject to death. You cannot kill God. In him was a life that is eternal. This is a life that only God has. See 1Tim.6:16

I agree.

It seems so clear to see that Jesus was a member of the human family and was chosen to show what it means to live by the power of God in continual obedience to all that was asked of him. The same is available to every believer. He showed us the way to lay down our life and do only the Father's will.

Jesus was not "chosen" to do anything. He was the Word, the Son of God, who purposefully and willfully came to earth, taking on human flesh, as a part of God's eternal plan of redemption through penal substitutionary atonement. His primary purpose was to die for our sins in our place.

The Son of God who lived in Mary's son was the living connection to the Father. All this is available to each of us.

This way of wording things-- "The Son of God who lived in Mary's son"--suggests that Jesus was two persons, each with their own nature, which approaches Adoptionism or Gnosticism.

The Son of God was Mary's son. One person, two inseparably united, but unmixed, natures.

"Christ dwells in us by the Holy Spirit" I have heard this so many times and it seems a trick to make John 3:16 of non-effect. It is like saying "it is the spirit in us, not really the Son"

Not at all. Technically, all three persons of the Trinity indwell believers, as you have already stated.

I agree we are not divine but the Son is and He lives in me. If I claim to be divine, I am blasphemous. But it is only divinity who can overcome Satan. He is my victory.

Of course.

Possessing human flesh or in human flesh? is there a difference?

Yes, depending on what one precisely means. "Possessing human flesh" sounds more like Jesus was fully and only human, but then was "possessed" by the eternal Son of God, in the same way an evil spirit possesses someone, and the natures remain completely separate. "In human flesh," to me, carries with it more the idea that from conception Jesus was both truly God and truly man, with the two natures joined but distinct.

It's not Ebionism, it's the plan of redemption, Christ in you the hope of glory. You are dead and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life... He that has the Son has life...

Yes.

 

[leroy]

I agree.


Jesus was not "chosen" to do anything. He was the Word, the Son of God, who purposefully and willfully came to earth, taking on human flesh, as a part of God's eternal plan of redemption through penal substitutionary atonement. His primary purpose was to die for our sins in our place.

What do you understand this to mean? "...made of the seed of David according to the flesh." Romans 1:3
What do you understand this to mean? "...the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev. 13:8

This way of wording things-- "The Son of God who lived in Mary's son"--suggests that Jesus was two persons, each with their own nature, which approaches Adoptionism or Gnosticism.

"two persons, each with their own nature," Well, it is said 'fully God and fully man' That is 2 fully's. 200%. Two beings, one divine one human. If the Son can live in us what is unacceptable of the Son living in Mary's son. I think it is a distinction without a difference.

The Son of God was Mary's son. One person, two inseparably united, but unmixed, natures.

I believe the marriage institution and the procreative act are the most premier object lessons that shows us what the plan of redemption and the incarnation are about. When a couple come together the husband provides a seed that is fully daddy. The wife provides a seed that is fully mommy. The two genetic bundles blend together to form a new creature which is mommy and daddy combined. in this child the 2 have in verity become ONE. Can you see it?

When we come together with God and He helps us to die to self, a spiritual consummation occurs. God's Seed with His divine nature unites with our human nature and a new creature is born. Humanity and divinity are joined together within the believer.

Not at all. Technically, all three persons of the Trinity indwell believers, as you have already stated.

Then isn't this the incarnation, God in human flesh? That is if the believer is indeed dead to self. God will not share His place in the soul temple with the human Ego

Of course.


Yes, depending on what one precisely means. "Possessing human flesh" sounds more like Jesus was fully and only human, but then was "possessed" by the eternal Son of God,

Yes! That is what I have said
Does this some how overthrow the Gospel. Can this understanding fail or be insufficient in the saving of mankind.
By taking a descendent of Adam through life, in continual obedience to all the will of the Father, The Son proves that Satan does not have full control over the human race. This gives us confidence that the Son can produce His life in me too.

in the same way an evil spirit possesses someone, and the natures remain completely separate. "In human flesh," to me, carries with it more the idea that from conception Jesus was both truly God and truly man, with the two natures joined but distinct.

Luke 8 has the story of a demoniac where the demons could use the man's voice and speak. But it was not the man speaking but a spirit being. The demons used super human strength while in his body to break metal chains. I was persuaded to believe that it was a full body capture not just an influence. After the demons were gone Jesus could speak to the man. Now compare this possession 'indwelling' to the Son speaking through Jesus
"Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

As temples, we are to be possessed of God. We live and move and find our being in Him. Is it too much to say that in us He lives and moved and expresses His being ?

Yes.

 

[Randy]

Of course.

Jesus expresses the will of God the Father as the Word.

The Word is brought forth into being by the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1


Nevertheless the word plainly says -

• For by Him all things were created

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16


Do you agree that all things were created by God?

Jesus expresses the will of God the Father as the Word.

The Word is brought forth into being by the power of the Holy Spirit.

In the beginning God (Elohim) created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 1:1


Nevertheless the word plainly says -

• For by Him all things were created

For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. Colossians 1:16


Do you agree that all things were created by God?

It is also written God spoke to us by His Son. According to Jesus's own testimony it was the Father IN Him doing HIS work.
Likewise God created by, through and for the Son. Thats what I hold to.

When you quote Col 1:16 why are you leaving that statement out?

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

If I had a creed this is what I hold to
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

From the Father through the Son. Even the promised Holy Spirit sent in Jesus's name.

God created BY HIS SON. Or as I believe the Deity in the Son, The Father, doing HIS work. They are One.

 

[Corinth77777]

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Yes there definitely is a difference between the terms Holyghost and Holy Spirit

I like how one writer said the manifestation

The scripture says they were filled with the Holy ghost- (my adds- power of the resurrected body of Christ)



and then it says as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Reject the difference if you like
But it is not given until after His resurrection.

It all comes from God through christ
Jesus is said to be the wisdom and power of God

"The Bible verse 1 Cor states that Jesus Christ is the "power of God" and the "wisdom of God". The apostle Paul wrote this in his letters to the church at Corinth to explain the meaning of Jesus' death on the cross. "

Also looking at this one:

He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.