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Jesus Is God: Part 1

Hopeful

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Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

This is speaking about Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Father who while here on earth was also tempted as we are as he had to relate to the infirmities of humanity, just like when He was baptized by John the Baptist in order to relate to humanity, but yet without sin.
So true.
That is why I used it for my illustration in post #86.
He was tempted, hungered, slept, tired, and everything else we endure.
 

Hopeful

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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Do you not yet comprehend that Jesus is the life, light and word of God,
That is a different use of the "word" than the "Word" who became the Son of God after He was made flesh.
...only come in the form of flesh in order to relate to the humanity of man?
I thank God He did.
 

Hopeful

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No such distinction is found in Gen. The point I'm making is in that beginning the Son was a being who John referred to as the Word.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness

And John also referred to the Jesus they saw and touched as the word of life as in the eternal life from the beginning. And the risen Lord is shown with the name of Word of God in Revelation. He hasn't changed.

The Son is a being regardless or not if John is using the term Word. He is shown to be with the Father in the beginning with all things made through Him. Clearly the craftsman at the Fathers side. For if all things were made through Him and for Him that speaks to the Father creating through the Son. Just as the Father spoke to us through the Son.

And that's Paul's creed
From the Father through the Son
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Jesus is before all things. He didn't begin in Mary's womb. So the Son who was, His Spirit, was in that body that God prepared for Him.
Perhaps I missed it, but who do you think were the "us" of Gen 1:26?
 

Hopeful

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No such distinction is found in Gen. The point I'm making is in that beginning the Son was a being who John referred to as the Word.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness

And John also referred to the Jesus they saw and touched as the word of life as in the eternal life from the beginning. And the risen Lord is shown with the name of Word of God in Revelation. He hasn't changed.

The Son is a being regardless or not if John is using the term Word. He is shown to be with the Father in the beginning with all things made through Him. Clearly the craftsman at the Fathers side. For if all things were made through Him and for Him that speaks to the Father creating through the Son. Just as the Father spoke to us through the Son.

And that's Paul's creed
From the Father through the Son
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Jesus is before all things. He didn't begin in Mary's womb. So the Son who was, His Spirit, was in that body that God prepared for Him.
I can't believe there was a "Jesus" before a "Jesus" was born of a woman.
The Word is who was born and then called Jesus, when He took on skin and bone.
It is written..."And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
Perhaps it is just semantics that I refer to Jesus as the Word before Jesus was born, but it doesn't make it untrue.
 

Randy

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I can't believe there was a "Jesus" before a "Jesus" was born of a woman.
The Word is who was born and then called Jesus, when He took on skin and bone.
It is written..."And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." (John 1:14)
Perhaps it is just semantics that I refer to Jesus as the Word before Jesus was born, but it doesn't make it untrue.
It was stated the word was made flesh.
This is how.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

Jesus or the Son who was didn't begin in that body.

Jesus=>"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"

The Son who was, His spirit, was in that body.
 

Randy

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Perhaps I missed it, but who do you think were the "us" of Gen 1:26?
Do you think we are the Word?
Our likeness and Our image has no distinction between them. Is the Father the Word? Jesus is the image of the invisible God.
 

Randy

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You don't see the Word as a being, who was with God? (John 1:1)
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

You know the Son of Man and the risen Lord from scripture. He is a being. So you should know the Son who was. Nothing has changed.
 

Hopeful

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It was stated the word was made flesh.
Actually, it was the "Word" that was made flesh. (John 1:14)
This is how.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;
Agreed.
Jesus or the Son who was didn't begin in that body.
The Word wasn't yet Jesus until He took on skin and bones.
Jesus=>"Father into your hands I commit My spirit"
I fail to see the relevance.
Every man has his own spirit.
The Son who was, His spirit, was in that body.
Do you mean..."The Son who was God's spirit, was in that body"?
 

Hopeful

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Do you think we are the Word?
No, the "us" of Gen 1:26 the Word and God.
Our likeness and Our image has no distinction between them.
If by "Our" you mean God and the Word, I agree.
Is the Father the Word?
John 1:1 says they are..."In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
Jesus is the image of the invisible God.
Amen to that, as Jesus Himself said..."And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22)
 

Randy

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Actually, it was the "Word" that was made flesh. (John 1:14)

Agreed.

The Word wasn't yet Jesus until He took on skin and bones.

I fail to see the relevance.
Every man has his own spirit.

Do you mean..."The Son who was God's spirit, was in that body"?
Jesus's spirit preexisted the body prepared for Him.
I mean Jesus was being who has a spirit He called His own.
That hasn't changed. He preexisted the creation. John calls Him the Word, the Word of Life, the Life, the eternal life, the Word of God. Its still the same Jesus. Whatever name He had in the beginning.

John uses different descriptors to make points.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete
 

Hopeful

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Jesus's spirit preexisted the body prepared for Him.
I mean Jesus was being who has a spirit He called His own.
That hasn't changed. He preexisted the creation. John calls Him the Word, the Word of Life, the Life, the eternal life, the Word of God. Its still the same Jesus. Whatever name He had in the beginning.
OK, thanks for clearing that up.
John uses different descriptors to make points.
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. 3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. 4 We write this to make our[a] joy complete.
Yes, I agree.
But Word in John 1, is a name, not a description.
 

PeterJens

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Do you see the Word as a being?
Scripture declares the Word was God.
So the Word is a being, and is God.

We can only define the Lord by the creation in which we live and through words that express His existence. When we address as mortals He who is eternal and Holy, we have no authority or knowledge other than that which His love and grace reveals to us.

A lot of people lose sight of two words, infinite and finite. The difference is no matter how large finite is, infinite will always be vastly larger. And the infinite belongs to God and is God, because only He has no beginning and no end.

As people we want to make things safe and defined so we can feel secure and know we will not be hurt. But neither of these things is possible with the Lord. Our safety is only in His declared love and revelation, and putting everything He reveals into action.

The distinction we have between us and Him, is we try and compromise, while He never changes and His light is a burning fire that burns up that which fails. Only when we meet Him face to face, will everything be seen as it is, which is too late for those not built from the Word of God. We say words are just words, because so easily we dishonour them, and use words to create illusions and deceive ourselves and others. The Lord on the other hand only speaks the truth, and His word is creative in power and intent. So for us a rich man matters, while a poor man is a failure, but for the Lord, He who loves knows Gods heart. God bless you
 

Hopeful

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Scripture declares the Word was God.
So the Word is a being, and is God.
Right on.
And thankfully, the Word put on flesh for us.
We can only define the Lord by the creation in which we live and through words that express His existence. When we address as mortals He who is eternal and Holy, we have no authority or knowledge other than that which His love and grace reveals to us.
A lot of people lose sight of two words, infinite and finite. The difference is no matter how large finite is, infinite will always be vastly larger. And the infinite belongs to God and is God, because only He has no beginning and no end.
As people we want to make things safe and defined so we can feel secure and know we will not be hurt. But neither of these things is possible with the Lord. Our safety is only in His declared love and revelation, and putting everything He reveals into action.
The distinction we have between us and Him, is we try and compromise, while He never changes and His light is a burning fire that burns up that which fails. Only when we meet Him face to face, will everything be seen as it is, which is too late for those not built from the Word of God. We say words are just words, because so easily we dishonour them, and use words to create illusions and deceive ourselves and others. The Lord on the other hand only speaks the truth, and His word is creative in power and intent. So for us a rich man matters, while a poor man is a failure, but for the Lord, He who loves knows Gods heart. God bless you
 

Hopeful

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Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

You know the Son of Man and the risen Lord from scripture. He is a being. So you should know the Son who was. Nothing has changed.
I sure am glad the Word put on flesh to experience all we experience, and to conquer sin while doing what we can do now...thanks to Him.
 

Randy

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I sure am glad the Word put on flesh to experience all we experience, and to conquer sin while doing what we can do now...thanks to Him.
yep
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me;

And the Word who was, His Spirit, was in that body. And that same Spirit He called His own is now in heaven in a glorified body (He is Spirit and that remains the Same, Nothing has changed.) The same yesterday, today, and forever
 

jaybo

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Scripture declares the Word was God.
So the Word is a being, and is God.

We can only define the Lord by the creation in which we live and through words that express His existence. When we address as mortals He who is eternal and Holy, we have no authority or knowledge other than that which His love and grace reveals to us.

A lot of people lose sight of two words, infinite and finite. The difference is no matter how large finite is, infinite will always be vastly larger. And the infinite belongs to God and is God, because only He has no beginning and no end.

As people we want to make things safe and defined so we can feel secure and know we will not be hurt. But neither of these things is possible with the Lord. Our safety is only in His declared love and revelation, and putting everything He reveals into action.

The distinction we have between us and Him, is we try and compromise, while He never changes and His light is a burning fire that burns up that which fails. Only when we meet Him face to face, will everything be seen as it is, which is too late for those not built from the Word of God. We say words are just words, because so easily we dishonour them, and use words to create illusions and deceive ourselves and others. The Lord on the other hand only speaks the truth, and His word is creative in power and intent. So for us a rich man matters, while a poor man is a failure, but for the Lord, He who loves knows Gods heart. God bless you
Great post! Thanks very much for writing it!
 

Golgotha

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Not sure what form you are saying He would have taken before the world began, but the primary purpose of this thread is to defend against accusations the Lord Jesus Christ is not Divine.
- H
Hopeful Randy for_his_glory jaybo

If we were to take Jesus at His words; He had a celestial form before His incarnation that was seen by men in the Old Testament.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I would imagine it was that day in Genesis 18 chapter when He came and sat and drank with 2 other angels along with Abraham & Sarah when He announced Sara would have a son. I would think that would be cause for his rejoicing in Him in that day.

There were other days when it was written that the Lord had appeared unto Abraham like in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 and then unto Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 and again that night in Genesi 26:24 & then unto Jacob in his wrestling with Him in Genesis 32:24-30, but I think that day in Genesis 18:1 was when Abraham had rejoiced to see Him.

If we consider that everything was made by Jesus Christ and that there was nothing made without Him, per John 10:1-14, then when the request to make man in "our image" and "after our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 was the Word of God asking the Father for permission to do that which is indicative that the Father has a celestial body too, and so when as the One God, in creating man, it was done in His image and after His likeness in that regards.

The same in how Jesus serves as our only Mediator between God & men where all intercessions goes through the Son, including the Spirit's unuttered intercessions after knowing the Spirit's mind to give His intercessions to the Father ( Romans 8:26-27 KJV ) and in searching our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) in giving our intercessions before we even ask, is so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for the Son answering the prayers per John 14:13-14.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

It may very well be helpful to understand how the current prayer system has been set up to understand how the Word of God established any word in creation, let alone judge anyone like He did to the people at the Babylon tower in Genesis 11:5-9 The request was made in the plural sense , and the Father agrees & the Word of God did it as the Triune God in creating man in His image.

Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15 on His law on how men were to establish a testimony or even to judge someone, by having 2 or 3 witnesses is how God witnesses and judges also. Still in effect for N.T. Matthew 18:16 & 2 Corinthians 13:1

So Philippians 2:5-13 of Jesus giving up His celestial body in being incarnated as the prophesied Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many should coincide with His words about Abraham having seen Him before His incarnation because He said so.

How else could we have been made after His image and after His likeness unless the Word of God had an image even before His incarnation?
 

Hopeful

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Hopeful Randy for_his_glory jaybo

If we were to take Jesus at His words; He had a celestial form before His incarnation that was seen by men in the Old Testament.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

I would imagine it was that day in Genesis 18 chapter when He came and sat and drank with 2 other angels along with Abraham & Sarah when He announced Sara would have a son. I would think that would be cause for his rejoicing in Him in that day.

There were other days when it was written that the Lord had appeared unto Abraham like in Genesis 12:7 & Genesis 17:1 and then unto Isaac in Genesis 26:1-2 and again that night in Genesi 26:24 & then unto Jacob in his wrestling with Him in Genesis 32:24-30, but I think that day in Genesis 18:1 was when Abraham had rejoiced to see Him.

If we consider that everything was made by Jesus Christ and that there was nothing made without Him, per John 10:1-14, then when the request to make man in "our image" and "after our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 was the Word of God asking the Father for permission to do that which is indicative that the Father has a celestial body too, and so when as the One God, in creating man, it was done in His image and after His likeness in that regards.

The same in how Jesus serves as our only Mediator between God & men where all intercessions goes through the Son, including the Spirit's unuttered intercessions after knowing the Spirit's mind to give His intercessions to the Father ( Romans 8:26-27 KJV ) and in searching our hearts ( Hebrews 4:12-16 ) in giving our intercessions before we even ask, is so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for the Son answering the prayers per John 14:13-14.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

It may very well be helpful to understand how the current prayer system has been set up to understand how the Word of God established any word in creation, let alone judge anyone like He did to the people at the Babylon tower in Genesis 11:5-9 The request was made in the plural sense , and the Father agrees & the Word of God did it as the Triune God in creating man in His image.

Deuteronomy 17:6 & Deuteronomy 19:15 on His law on how men were to establish a testimony or even to judge someone, by having 2 or 3 witnesses is how God witnesses and judges also. Still in effect for N.T. Matthew 18:16 & 2 Corinthians 13:1

So Philippians 2:5-13 of Jesus giving up His celestial body in being incarnated as the prophesied Son of Man to give His life as a ransom for many should coincide with His words about Abraham having seen Him before His incarnation because He said so.

How else could we have been made after His image and after His likeness unless the Word of God had an image even before His incarnation?
I don't feel it should be written above as "the Word of God", but as "the Word and God".
Unless that is you are writing of the spoken words of God or of Jesus, in which the word "Word" is not capitalized.
The Word was a distinct being.
 

Golgotha

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I don't feel it should be written above as "the Word of God", but as "the Word and God".
Unless that is you are writing of the spoken words of God or of Jesus, in which the word "Word" is not capitalized.
The Word was a distinct being.
Thank you for sharing, however...

Scripture has designated the phrase "the Word of God" being Jesus Christ.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Paul also said it here as equating the Word of God as Jesus Christ Himself.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Just sharing Who I believe about the Word of God in scripture as being Jesus Christ.
 
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